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The SNES version is a better port of Original Prince of Persia released for the Apple II. This game is one of my favorites! The SNES port was developed by Arsys Software and published by Masaya (in Japan) and Konami (USA/Europe).

Game Objectives

  • Emulator used: Bizhawk 1.11.7
  • Aims for in-game time instead of real time
  • Takes damage to save time
  • Abuses programing errors

About this run

The actual run of this game isn't obsoleted for 11 years until now! This new TAS, due of more accurate emulation of Bizhawk, it's very hard to say how much time has been improved in terms of comparable gameplay improvements, because lag is much harder to notable. I estimate that the real improved time it was 49 seconds if count only gameplay improvements.
This TAS is 33.22 seconds faster (33:28:43) outright due emulation differences, but is 30.44 seconds faster (33:31:21) because this input ends 167 frames later to improve 3 in-game seconds of final level.
This run was done 100% by me. Odongdong isn't involved in this TAS, but his WIP contributed to me, and for The First 500 project. So I credited as a co-author for his contribuition.
My main motivation of this TAS it was when I found a improved run (by mintlody) on NicoNico's website. This run includes almost all improvements that I used in this TAS, including this pause abuse. But my TAS, I use pause extensively, to improves all stages on in-game time, creating a new (almost) type of TAS for this game!

General notes:

  • In each level, pausing this game (using select button) on cutscenes (Stage clear, mirror path of Stage 5, Bosses of Stage 9, 16 & 18), stop 3-4 in-game seconds, but on Jaffar's appearances of Stage 15 and 19, it's possible to stop more in-game seconds!
  • With pause, it's possible to save 1-4 frames, depending of a determined frame in which to unpause and depending of some stages.

Stage-by-Stage Comments:

Notice: Due of emulation differences, I failed to calculate the improved frames on each stage (expect Stage 1 and 20).
  • Level 1 - Little optimization on the second room.
  • Level 2 - Different (and faster) route on the middle of this stage.
  • Level 3 - Little new optimizations.
  • Level 4 - Little slowdown reduction, improved all guards skip.
  • Level 5 - Little new optimizations, new strategy on mirror path without losing speed.
  • Level 6 - Litte boss optimization.
  • Level 7 - Little optimization on potion's room.
  • Level 8 - Different strategy to open exit.
  • Level 9 - Boss optimization.
  • Level 10 - Improved almost all skeletons new skip.
  • Level 11 - Improved guard and a difficulty pattern (or RNG) of flames trap.
  • Level 12 - Yellow skeleton boss optimized.
  • Level 13 - 4 frames is sacrified on start to manipulate the first guard, because of pause used during a stage clear of previous stage, I lacked that RNG manipulation. Fortunately, I recovered the same pattern used on published run.
  • Level 14 - New way to skip the second guard without reenconter again. For same reason of Stage 13, I sacrified 4 frames again to manipulate the third guard, but to my surprise, I saved more frames than published run on this guard due of a different RNG, allowing me to defeat this guard with a simple sword attack. Other improvement is a way to active exit door switch without opening the gate that leads to that exit switch, saving a lot of time!
  • Level 15 - New optimizations, including the 2nd guard on both encounters.
  • Level 16 - New guard skip and a faster strategy to drink the potion of warp (ducking is faster than stopping movement)
  • Level 17 - Boss Skip! To work this glitch, it's necessary to get hit with only one energy and on a correct position. Dying makes Prince to reach the exit with a sufficient distance. A lot of time saved!
  • Level 18 - More optimized boss and a new last guard skip.
  • Level 19 - Better optimizations. During this battle of that unavoidable guard on Level 19 (The first of 5 bosses of Throne Room), for the same reason of using pause of stage 12 (but I used more extensively time), I lacked that RNG manipulation, forcing me to defeat this guard using a different sword attack, losing some frames.
  • Stage 20 - Saved 2 frames using a pause during Jaffar's appearance before the final battle.
After finishing the credits, it's possible to return to menu. In menu, It you go to Best Time, it's possible to see each in-game time of this stages, including of Level 20!

In-game stages 

             SprintGod's old snes9x TAS                                                  Challenger's new Bizhawk TAS

Possible improvements

  • During of midlle of this project and this game, I noted 2 mistakes on Level 2 (lost 12 frames totally), 2 mistakes on level 3 (lost 5-6 frames totally), and 1 frame lost on the last room of Stage 4. I tried to fix editing my TAS, but failed due of bad pattern of flames on Level 11.

Special Thanks

  • SprintGod, for the published TAS.
  • Odongdong, for his WIP of first 7 levels.
  • Mintlody, for that improved run on NicoNico. This run helped me a lot! Almost all improvements I used, including that new skips!
  • Alyosha, for the First 500 project. This game hasn't been improved since 2005, until now!
Another 2005 run to be obsoleted! Now only 10 (2005) runs left to be obsoleted! And left 13 runs of The First 500 to be obsoleted!
Masterjun: Judging.
Masterjun: This movie has a lot of neat little improvements, however, this doesn't make this run much more entertaining. Accepting as an improvement to the previous run into the Vault.
Spikestuff: Publishing!

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Posted: 12/6/2016 5:51 PM
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Alyosha
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Masterjun wrote:
We had a run with good votes, but due to bad ratings it went into the Vault. Now we have a slightly better run with good votes and mostly unchanged entertainment value. How would you predict are the ratings going to be? For everyone arguing that a judge should just look at the votes and decide from there, or that a 15-0 ratio automatically assures a place in Moons, just look at the previous run and the ratings then. How would you argue against over 30 ratings?
Well, I would argue that people are asked to vote on the current run and whether they found it entertaining, and if you have a system that asks people to vote, then the votes should have some relevence in the outcome. Based on your arguments above, you could have arrived at the same judgement right when the run was put on the workbench, without any votes one way or the other, in which case, what was the point of voting? I'm just saying that this doesn't encourage participation or confidence in the voting system. And I don't see the harm in saying 'well the previous run went to vault but people seem to like this one so let's put it in moons and see how it does in ratings.' I think this is better then pre-supposing an outcome.
Posted: 12/6/2016 6:23 PM
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Masterjun
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Alyosha wrote:
Based on your arguments above, you could have arrived at the same judgement right when the run was put on the workbench, without any votes one way or the other, in which case, what was the point of voting?
Take a look at our Voting Guidelines.
  • Post your opinion. Judges weigh thoughtful posts far more than silent votes.
  • If the movie entertained you try to mention what aspects in particular you found entertaining.
Votes not changing one specific outcome, and votes never changing an outcome in general are two very different things. Don't imply the latter one if the former one happened once.
Alyosha wrote:
I don't see the harm in saying 'well the previous run went to vault but people seem to like this one so let's put it in moons and see how it does in ratings.' I think this is better then pre-supposing an outcome.
A judge doesn't pre-suppose an outcome. A judge decides on an outcome. Your suggestion people seemed to like the previous run but it went to Vault, now people like this run which barely changed so let's put it into Moons puts the player above the audience. The Judge Guidelines state that we have to be fair towards both. In particular: Too many bad publications turn the audience away.
Warning: Might glitch to credits I will finish this ACE soon as possible (or will I?)
Posted: 12/6/2016 8:13 PM
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Alyosha
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Huh? I'm not quite following your response here. Your questions were:
We had a run with good votes, but due to bad ratings it went into the Vault. Now we have a slightly better run with good votes and mostly unchanged entertainment value. How would you predict are the ratings going to be? How would you argue against over 30 ratings?
My response is that the current audience is voting on the current run, and their perception of entertainment value can be different. That there is no need to predict what ratings it might get, since it will be rated anyway after acceptance. I'm not seeing where a previous audience's ratings are overcoming a current audience's feedback. Ratings are also silent.
puts the player above the audience.
I'm also not getting this part, where is the player involved? Are you saying that two similar runs shouldn't be rated differently because it looks like bias against the player? If so then I would say that since these are two seperate audiences, nevermind being seperated by a decade, then getting two different ratings is very possible without any kind of bias.
In particular: Too many bad publications turn the audience away.
The run is getting published one way or another, what is this part referencing? I understand (I think) some of what you are saying here. A previous run of a game that is not that different from its succesor would seem to warrant it getting a similar standing. But I disagree that this should be taken into consideration to an extent that a current, new audience cannot overcome it.
Posted: 12/6/2016 9:17 PM
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feos
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Alyosha wrote:
But I disagree that this should be taken into consideration to an extent that a current, new audience cannot overcome it.
The audience is not that new. And the run is not that different. Overall, the visual cutoff between moons and vault might be arbitrary and random, but the system is not that broken either: you get normal distribution and after a decade can very well predict the rates for a new movie with similar content. Not perfectly, but you can't be sure they will be different either. I remember a few cases where the rates were lower than the judge has expected. But no cases of the opposite.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Posted: 12/7/2016 9:22 PM
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zaphod77
Joined: 1/13/2007
Posts: 343
I get why this went to vault, and why the nes version went to vault as well. And the genesis version. Everyone who's played the game seriously knows that nes and sega genesis versions of the game are totally inferior to the good versions. It's the "looks like good RTA" issue that's the real sticking point here. That and the fact that it seems to drag on a bit. but that's a minor secondary issue. While you feel like a superhuman when you get the games controls, that doesn't really translate well to viewers, so only ones who have played the game (admittedly a decent number) appreciate it properly. The Sega CD version is a highly accurate port, including all bugs from the original that might help that I know of. (overflow trick is a BIG time saver on level 12) TG-16 version is nice but not an accurate port. it does have silly bugs of it's own allowing some clearly not intended solutions, and the same speed control options. Incidentally 2 tile running jump is actually a bug. All puzzles are solvable without it, except for maybe SNES version. But it's a cool bug which was sadly fixed for prince of persia 2.
Posted: 12/7/2016 9:59 PM
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Challenger
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zaphod77 wrote:
The Sega CD version is a highly accurate port, including all bugs from the original that might help that I know of. (overflow trick is a BIG time saver on level 12)
Because the gameplay of this version is the same of PC (DOS) version! I tested those bugs found on an Old SprintGod's DOS run! And works very well!
My homepage --Currently not much motived for TASing as before...-- But I'm still working.
Posted: 12/19/2016 4:45 PM
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Odongdong
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Joined: 9/14/2011
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Alright, I found my time to write the new description. Feel free to edit if something isn't right.
SNES version of Prince of Persia isn't quite a mere port; it's more of a complete re-imagining that puts itself beyond any other releases at the time. Developed by Arsys Software, this version greatly expands upon Jordan Mechner's classic with brand-new musics, overhauled graphics, new levels, new traps, new boss fights, and more. Challenger improves the previous attempt with a bunch of more skips and route changes in the run, including various optimizations and an newly found exploit that skips the entire boss fight.
Posted: 12/20/2016 1:50 PM
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Radiant
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Joined: 8/29/2011
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Odongdong wrote:
Alright, I found my time to write the new description. Feel free to edit if something isn't right.
SNES version of Prince of Persia isn't quite a mere port; it's more of a complete re-imagining that puts itself beyond any other releases at the time. Developed by Arsys Software, this version greatly expands upon Jordan Mechner's classic with brand-new musics, overhauled graphics, new levels, new traps, new boss fights, and more. Challenger improves the previous attempt with a bunch of more skips and route changes in the run, including various optimizations and an newly found exploit that skips the entire boss fight.
That strikes me as rather hyperbolic :) I wouldn't call it a "complete re-imagining" or "beyond" anything else. It's fundamentally the exact same game with some extra game elements. The game has been ported to easily twenty different platforms, and most of these offer the classic twelve levels plus a few more, and most of these have improved graphics and music over the original. The main extra appeal is the Shiva fight and the extended Jafar battle; everything else follows the standard combat system. So it's arguably the best port of POP before the 2010 Ubisoft remake; but that doesn't make it a "re-imagining".
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Posted: 12/21/2016 6:44 AM
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zaphod77
Joined: 1/13/2007
Posts: 343
this version added much more new than most. most if they added anything just an extra jaffar battle before the princess. this one added 1) shiva boss fight. 2) ascent from hell. 3) teleporter maze 4) many patched speedrun exploits (mouse rescue can't be skipped in this one) 5) conveyor belts. 6) a few new traps. 7) a number of additional bosses. 8) extended jaffar battle 9) potion of warp 10) potion of death (insta kills you) 11) 20 levels instead of 12, many of them extended from what they were before.
Posted: 12/21/2016 8:28 AM
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Radiant
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zaphod77 wrote:
this version added much more new than most. most if they added anything just an extra jaffar battle before the princess.
Sure, that's my point. It's the same game, only bigger. That doesn't make it groundbreaking or "re-imagined" or other superlatives like that. For example, what you call "ascent from hell" is simply another level with a different tileset. The "number of additional bosses" are just reskins of existing enemies (other than shiva/jafar). A "potion of death" is the same as the poison potion from the original, only it deals more damage. Once you have a tile-based game engine, it's not exactly hard to add another level; e.g. the Genesis version also has five new levels and extra tilesets, and even a 1994 hack of the PC version adds ten extra levels.
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Posted: 12/23/2016 7:03 AM
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zaphod77
Joined: 1/13/2007
Posts: 343
Okay you add conveyor belts, sticks that knock you over, teleporting doorways, and magical death sparkles that you can't sneak past to the dos version. :) there is no doubt that the snes version engine was extended significantly to add many of these new features present in no other version.
Posted: 3/6/2021 9:10 PM
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zaphod77
Joined: 1/13/2007
Posts: 343
welp looks like TAS has been beaten RTA. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25hqxoTIqz0 There's a crazy glitch here at work. have fun working out how to TAS it faster. :)
Posted: 3/6/2021 9:13 PM
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Samsara
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Akuma's been highly active in the game thread (link to most recent post), so all of that work's been done pretty much. All that's left is for someone to pick it up and work with it.
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Posted: 3/6/2021 9:15 PM
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Challenger
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I should have worked on it two years ago. I'll try to TAS on the next month ;)
My homepage --Currently not much motived for TASing as before...-- But I'm still working.
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