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Joined: 7/6/2012
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I have no experience TAS-ing, but I can try to offer ideas that might be useful in hundo. We basically just need ice missiles and some sort of corner with an enemy near it, right? EDIT I'm wondering if you could possibly skip elevators in between sectors by taking those sector shortcuts (you'd still have to stop at the nav rooms though...). I can't think of any that could possibly be useful after getting ice missiles though, and i don't think there are any enemies you can freeze to get out of those in-between tunnels to get through those SA blocks...
Memory
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kirbymastah wrote:
EDIT: I'm wondering if you could possibly skip elevators in between sectors by taking those sector shortcuts (you'd still have to stop at the nav rooms though...). I can't think of any that could possibly be useful after getting ice missiles though, and i don't think there are any enemies you can freeze to get out of those in-between tunnels to get through those SA blocks...
The only one I could see being useful would be 4->6 after diffusion missiles but idk if there are enemies that you could use on the sector 6 side. There is also the problem of "would this trigger all the relevant events" because sometimes elevator from a sector to the main deck changes the music to the ambience theme. If that's the case here, you might be missing a trigger.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Joined: 7/6/2012
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Another possibility is sec5 to sec3 meltdown, but the connecting tunnel is way too far away, let alone basically impossible to do. And add on to the fact that you'd need to stop by a nav room, which locks you from re-entering sec5... yeah
Memory
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I didn't mention meltdown because it was already ruled out earlier in the thread for the reason you just listed.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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At some point, it may be fun to create a collection of "navigation rooms entered at times you aren't supposed to be able to enter them", partly to show off how the game reacts, partly to show off how breakable the game would be if it didn't have such a tendency to softlock. (I'm also secretly hoping that one of the combinations will have nonterminated text or something exploitable like that.)
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I double checked Sector 4 -> Sector 6 and the enemies are on the wrong side. Now the flies are able to push other flies into the wall but they seem to just get stuck there and not really accomplish much, but maybe you could do something with that. Probably would be super slow though, those things don't move fast.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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The sector shortcuts aren't helpful. You can get through the screw attack blocks on one side, but you're always blocked on the other.
ais523 wrote:
At some point, it may be fun to create a collection of "navigation rooms entered at times you aren't supposed to be able to enter them", partly to show off how the game reacts, partly to show off how breakable the game would be if it didn't have such a tendency to softlock. (I'm also secretly hoping that one of the combinations will have nonterminated text or something exploitable like that.)
I did this several years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoQgkXjNGaQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1C-1f2F7Fk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pt5oGtR1yzQ The other cases are not interesting. It almost always says "Target eradicated". There's text associated with every single event, so there aren't any text glitches. Also, none of these actually softlock. That would only happen if you clip through blocks you can't break yet and you have no other ways to get back. Edit: Also, there's a ton of early power bombs now. I might make a video in the future that has all of them, but I'd have to find all the new ones first.
Joined: 10/8/2013
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You can use the 6->4 shortcut, if you wrap around the whole area. Dunno to what gain, tho. Also, the 3->5 shortcut is usable in debug. But only debug, cause the room change makes it impossible to spark against a rising pillar in other versions.
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ZX497 wrote:
Also, the 3->5 shortcut is usable in debug. But only debug, cause the room change makes it impossible to spark against a rising pillar in other versions.
I forgot the sector 5 end doesn't have screw attack blocks. That's a shame though, since that's the only way to get to Nightmare's area early. Edit: Actually there aren't as many early power bombs as I thought. Several of them would leave you softlocked anyway.
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BioSpark wrote:
I forgot the sector 5 end doesn't have screw attack blocks. That's a shame though, since that's the only way to get to Nightmare's area early.
Well you can do this I guess. Link to video There's some early PBs you can get there too. Not in the Nightmare area itself (you're stuck there I believe), but if you just do the first clip you can clean house in the fish and water place. EDIT: Actually nvm, you're not even stuck in the Nightmare area itself. You can get out by doing the same thing you did to get there :P
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Oh, I didn't realize you could ascend oob without fully morphing. I realized I could get into that tunnel with the speed booster blocks but I assumed there was no way to break them. Also, I'm pretty sure you're stuck if you fall to the bottom of that tall underwater room. There's no way to get back up, and the path to the right is blocked by red doors.
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Yeah it's blocked by red doors, but from what I checked, it should be possible to clip through each and every one of them until you're out of there. EDIT: Actually, it's just the one red door blocking you, and that one you can clip using those fishes in there.
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BioSpark wrote:
I did this several years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoQgkXjNGaQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1C-1f2F7Fk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pt5oGtR1yzQ The other cases are not interesting. It almost always says "Target eradicated". There's text associated with every single event, so there aren't any text glitches. Also, none of these actually softlock. That would only happen if you clip through blocks you can't break yet and you have no other ways to get back. Edit: Also, there's a ton of early power bombs now. I might make a video in the future that has all of them, but I'd have to find all the new ones first.
I'd actually already seen these; I was hoping there'd be more, but I suspect the same thing would happen again. What happens if the game expects you to enter a navigation room next, but you go to the wrong one? Or to kill a boss next, and you kill the wrong boss? (I think the existing tests have been on leaving a sector when the game expects you to kill a boss?)
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ais523 wrote:
What happens if the game expects you to enter a navigation room next, but you go to the wrong one? Or to kill a boss next, and you kill the wrong boss? (I think the existing tests have been on leaving a sector when the game expects you to kill a boss?)
You can't leave the sector. Adam locks you out Afaik, the only way to get out of a sector to test one of those ideas is to take the NOC->AQA shortcut during the NOC revisit (you don't have Ice Missiles before Mega Core-X). But at that point in the game, you can't go to the wrong Navigation Room because the next one is after the Restricted Sector, and you can't go to the wrong boss because the only ones left are X-BOX, Ridley, SA-X, and Omega Metroid
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Is possible using theses "clips" and go to the some point that result an "arbitrary code" and end the game iself?
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ZX497 wrote:
Yeah it's blocked by red doors, but from what I checked, it should be possible to clip through each and every one of them until you're out of there.
Oh whoops, somehow I thought there were two red doors.
ais523 wrote:
What happens if the game expects you to enter a navigation room next, but you go to the wrong one? Or to kill a boss next, and you kill the wrong boss? (I think the existing tests have been on leaving a sector when the game expects you to kill a boss?)
Every navigation room will tell you the same message. Killing the wrong boss will do nothing, and it will keep respawning until you reach it normally.
Post subject: no IRC, it's not a new glitch
AntyMew
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I was fooling around with the coons in TRO, then I found a 12 frame timesaver out of nowhere lol (bk2) Link to video
Just a Mew! 〜 It/She ΘΔ 〜
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That was actually in my 0% WIP, along with a lot of other small time savers. I was about halfway through the game, and I was about 25 seconds ahead of the old TAS. Of course, these new clips will save more than a minute alone.
Joined: 10/8/2013
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Oh yeah, before I forget about this again: https://www.dropbox.com/s/xrt46nu6l2r9yfs/nettorineardoorclip.vbm?dl=0 Maybe a tiny timesaver? Sadly, I don't think it's possible to get past the door itself like this, cause the area doesn't quite work if you're using that kihunter... but depending on how quickly you can manipulate the eye door opening, it could be something.
AntyMew
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Eyedoors can be manipulated to open as early as 60 frames after entering the room. That's plenty of time for this clip
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Anty-Lemon wrote:
Eyedoors can be manipulated to open as early as 60 frames after entering the room. That's plenty of time for this clip
I'm not sure what you're trying to say, but there isn't any issue with manipulating the eyedoor. Eyedoors have a timer that starts with 60 to 120 frames. If you're not in range when the timer hits 0, the timer resets to another value between 60-120. The goal is to get in range of the eyedoor right before the timer runs out. Manipulating eyedoors involves waiting before entering the room to get a favorable set of timer values. Here's a script for eyedoors, if anyone's interested: http://pastebin.com/DAGnjAdJ
AntyMew
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BioSpark wrote:
I'm not sure what you're trying to say, but there isn't any issue with manipulating the eyedoor. Eyedoors have a timer that starts with 60 to 120 frames. If you're not in range when the timer hits 0, the timer resets to another value between 60-120. The goal is to get in range of the eyedoor right before the timer runs out. Manipulating eyedoors involves waiting before entering the room to get a favorable set of timer values. Here's a script for eyedoors, if anyone's interested: http://pastebin.com/DAGnjAdJ
I know all this. I've also written my own script for bizhawk :U I was saying that the only time there would be a problem with the eyedoor is if you could get to it before 60 frames had passed, and in this case it takes about 4 seconds EDIT: Also, your script is slightly inaccurate. The eyedoor uses (samus.y + (samus.topOffset + (samus.topOffset >> 0x1F)) / 2) as samus's y location rather than simply samus.y. The script is also a bit naive by assuming that being behind the eyedoor can also result in Samus being in range, though that shouldn't ever matter
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AntyMew
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I wrote a program to help with Core-X fights. It takes initial position and target position as inputs, and outputs all potential solutions to get there on the right frame. See --help for details https://github.com/Anty-Lemon/CoreXFucker According to my testing, the ideal x/y positions are ±5 from the position of the target enemy near the center of the boss arena. If you want to find the ideal positions manually, they can be found by cheating Core-X ptr + 0x2E-0x31 to 0, then poking the defeated Core-X's position until it stops flashing
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Made a vid showing all the early power bombs. I'm sure ZX will find a new one within 24 hours. Link to video
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Haha. I don't have anything planned or lined up for now, so, will have to disappoint you on that dare. That's clever what you did with the camera in the Sector 4 climb to scroll it faster. I guess you entered the water and did some ball jumping? There's that humorous 15+ minute camera crawl if you leave the cam un-adjusted which I'm sure you noticed.
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