Experienced player (589)
Joined: 2/5/2011
Posts: 1417
Location: France
Good luck if ya start
Current: Rayman 3 maybe? idk xD Paused: N64 Rayman 2 (with Funnyhair) GBA SMA 4 : E Reader (With TehSeven) TASVideos is like a quicksand, you get in, but you cannot quit the sand
Post subject: Re: Is the game still gonna be TASed?
TAG
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Joined: 2/9/2014
Posts: 407
Location: In Oblivion
Graviton wrote:
TAG wrote:
Because I would love to do a collaborative TAS with Dimon12321. Note doom is a game that I love and I would want to 100% do a TAS of this game.
I would love to help out you and anyone else who wants to TAS this game. I have a ton of data and knowledge about this game that I can share, and I may be of some use finding relevant memory addresses and such. If there is interest in this I can try and write a lua script or something with speed values, damage values, etc.
Cool we should get onto it ASAP. I need your assitance with routing, also Dimon12321 I need your help with who is going to do each level. Example... Someone does level 1, I do level 2, someone does level 3 .ect. There is a ßhit ton of time to be saved in this run if fully optimised. IIRC a man once told me the longer the TAS takes the better it will be, so I say this should take at least 8 and a bit months to complete. Stretching to a year for a fully optimised run. As someone mentioned values, most weapons have a random damage attack number so they should be easy to manipulate the damage of weapons to one shot kill most enemies. ----------------- I sign my part in this deal. Make sure you guys do too.
I’m sorry. Really I am... I am so sorry for what I did. Forgive me.
Joined: 11/12/2013
Posts: 17
Cool we should get onto it ASAP. I need your assitance with routing, also Dimon12321 I need your help with who is going to do each level. Example... Someone does level 1, I do level 2, someone does level 3 .ect. There is a ßhit ton of time to be saved in this run if fully optimised. IIRC a man once told me the longer the TAS takes the better it will be, so I say this should take at least 8 and a bit months to complete. Stretching to a year for a fully optimised run. As someone mentioned values, most weapons have a random damage attack number so they should be easy to manipulate the damage of weapons to one shot kill most enemies.
I agree completely. This will likely take almost a year if not more to optimize properly, so we will definitely have a difficult task on our hands. I currently am not very good at TASing things, so I would likely be better as someone who analyzes WIPs and searches for relevant data. If needed though, I would be willing to learn more about how to actually TAS myself to make this thing a reality. Maybe we can have multiple people TASing the same level to compare strategies and optimize in iterations. For now, I will get started on finding relevant memory addresses such as position, speed, damage dealt, etc.
TAG
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Joined: 2/9/2014
Posts: 407
Location: In Oblivion
Kool, It will be good to demonstrate how a team can get a game fully optimised. EDIT: just need to kick my self and get motivated.
I’m sorry. Really I am... I am so sorry for what I did. Forgive me.
Joined: 11/12/2013
Posts: 17
Work has started again on making a proper watch me die difficulty TAS for this game. Those involved including myself are going to be discussing and working on this in #doomtas channel on SRL IRC (irc2.speedrunslive.com). Gonna be a long time before this has a chance to be finished, but hopefully the final product is as awe inspiring as I think it can be.
Former player
Joined: 8/31/2009
Posts: 236
I found a clip through the fence on Final Outpost! See here! I did this out of the blue while glitch hunting, so I'm not sure if that particular wall is glitchy, or if creating lag allowed me to skip through (similar to what you see in Goldeneye and Perfect Dark). I'll be looking for more finds!
Former player
Joined: 8/31/2009
Posts: 236
Just to add on after some more testing, it seems that you can't get through solid walls, or between the gaps of bars, but any fence where a projectile can go through can be clipped. Grav and myself found a few more on all the fences on Staging Area, Spawned Fear, Blood Keep, and No Escape. Here's another for example. RTA players may not be able to fully use them, but for TASes, this should make for a lot of re-routing.
TAG
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Joined: 2/9/2014
Posts: 407
Location: In Oblivion
Sounds good
I’m sorry. Really I am... I am so sorry for what I did. Forgive me.
Dimon12321
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Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (597)
Joined: 4/5/2014
Posts: 1228
Location: Romania
Great work! I look forward to see the full game TAS. For me, it's so difficult to pass the game as fast as possible and I have not much free time. I spent about 6 days on TASing Map 1 and it's not finished yet =( Here is my WIP: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/22952445841349675
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
MTA
Joined: 4/3/2012
Posts: 68
Dimon12321 wrote:
Great work! I look forward to see the full game TAS. For me, it's so difficult to pass the game as fast as possible and I have not much free time. I spent about 6 days on TASing Map 1 and it's not finished yet =( Here is my WIP: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/22952445841349675
I would normally be up for a new tas, but the problem is the sensitivity option, if what the sensitivity would have to be set on, i would definitely love to try this tas again, but i'm also working on another tas atm, so either way i couldn't do it now :P, but I would also look forward to anyone with at least close to frame perfect optimization and has the patience to do a tas like this.
t3h Icy wrote:
I found a clip through the fence on Final Outpost! See here! I did this out of the blue while glitch hunting, so I'm not sure if that particular wall is glitchy, or if creating lag allowed me to skip through (similar to what you see in Goldeneye and Perfect Dark). I'll be looking for more finds!
also, this clip blew my mind lol
Dimon12321
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Posts: 1228
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I chose sensetivity of 15° turning per a frame. I think it's the best idea because it's possible to make a correct 45° turn for run-strafing and use no zigzaging.
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
Joined: 11/12/2013
Posts: 17
It should be noted that the new clip is a lag based trick and I have not been able to reproduce it on any emulators so far. Until an emulator exists that can accurately emulate the lag, I don't think a TAS could utilize it. Perhaps there is like some super precise angle/speed that would let you clip with a very tiny bit of lag though, so I guess it shouldn't be completely ruled out until properly researched.
Former player
Joined: 8/31/2009
Posts: 236
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Player (121)
Joined: 2/25/2017
Posts: 13
Hello everyone. I would like to make people aware of the TAS of Watch Me Die I'm creating. Link to video Due to emulation inaccuracies, I will lose 2-3 minutes from not being able to exploit lag. Regardless, I intend on finishing this with a goal of sub-30.
Dimon12321
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Wonderful! BTW, did you try to run through the lattice on Staging Area?
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
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Player (121)
Joined: 2/25/2017
Posts: 13
It's probably not possible on console, but it's definitely impossible on emulators right now. All known lag clips use the SSG, and you can't get the SSG in Staging Area. Still, I don't have any lag whatsoever, so I can't use even the lag clips that RTA can do (such as the one in Final Outpost).
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Joined: 2/25/2017
Posts: 13
I have just finished one of the hardest levels in the entire TAS: Even Simpler. https://youtu.be/ipU2nL-rY3A This level is filled with RNG at nearly every moment. Two main reasons for this are because I opt to spawn prevent 4 barons, which is nearly impossible in a non-TAS setting, and kill 6 mancubi with 2 rockets, which under normal circumstances wouldn't be enough, but I take advantage of the fact that there are darts in the level in order to finish them off. See the video description for more details on what makes this difficult.
Dimon12321
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Joined: 4/5/2014
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You gonna be my idol if you complete the whole game! BTW, you didn't manage to run through the lattice in Final Outpost, did you?
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
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Nope. The emulation inaccuracies simply prevent lag clips from being possible. This means I lose about 39 seconds on Final Outpost and over 10 seconds on Alpha Quadrant. It doesn't appear to be anything I can avoid, unfortunately. Despite this, I'm still significantly ahead of the RTA WR. The current TAS time to the Even Simpler intermission screen is 8:26.250. I'm not sure what the implications of losing so much time to something that appears to be out of my control would be if I decide to submit this, but I want to finish this TAS no matter what.
Joined: 6/1/2017
Posts: 2
Headshot wrote:
I have just finished one of the hardest levels in the entire TAS: Even Simpler. https://youtu.be/ipU2nL-rY3A This level is filled with RNG at nearly every moment. Two main reasons for this are because I opt to spawn prevent 4 barons, which is nearly impossible in a non-TAS setting, and kill 6 mancubi with 2 rockets, which under normal circumstances wouldn't be enough, but I take advantage of the fact that there are darts in the level in order to finish them off. See the video description for more details on what makes this difficult.
Man this backs some memories. Forgot how much I loved Doom as a kid. Grats on the run. tempocams
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Here is a quick update on the status of this TAS: I have just finished Dark Entries, meaning I'm about half-way through the game. Despite not being able to utilize lag clips, I am currently on a faster pace than expected. Sub-30 is no longer the goal; the goal is now sub-29. If Watch Your Step is going to be as difficult as I expect it to be, I will consider making it a public WIP. For now, here are a few screenshots from the TAS.
Dimon12321
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Posts: 1228
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Thumb up))
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
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Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1806
Location: Brasil
Just as a reminder, as long as you keep the consistency and explain that this run has no clips,no one should complain about not using RTA strats. The run is absurdly cool BTW,good job!
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
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Thanks! Yeah, it's unfortunate that lag clips aren't able to be used in this run. I believe this TAS should provide a strong foundation for future TASes when emulation gets better. It should be noted that lag clips are currently poorly understood. Given that this is a new and exclusive glitch to this version of Doom, the science behind it isn't exactly clear, and on console, some areas appear impossible to clip, while others are easy. A future TAS on more accurate emulation should be fully aware of what the glitch is capable of before starting.
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I managed to finish Watch Your Step much quicker than anticipated! This was difficult, but I still managed to make it work. Now I'm over ten minutes ahead of Dimon's rejected TAS with quite a few levels left to go. https://youtu.be/kXfctTCrq3Y Unfortunately, this is a level that we could skip if lag clips were possible on emulator. Since we can't do that, we have to do the level mostly normally, but there's a lot we can do to save time that's detailed in the video description. This will be the final WIP before the TAS is finished.