This TAS aims for "Warpless" completion of Super Mario Bros. 3, as defined by:
  1. No warp whistles used (though one is obtained)
  2. No game-end glitch
We improve the published run by 2668 frames (44.5 seconds), notably by incorporating GlitchMan's offscreen wand grab and using a cloud to skip World 7's 2nd fortress instead of 7-4 (where a new strat is used to shorten the level). Significant differences in power-up usage and in-level optimizations make up the rest of the savings. There are 27 extra lag frames due to speed/entertainment trade-offs in Worlds 6 and 8.
We included subtitles giving a fair amount of in-line detail; if you're interested click the CC (closed caption) button on the youtube video to enable the subtitles.
Lord Tompa also teamed up with CujoIHSV (current unassisted world-record holder) for a live-stream commentary.

P-Wings

Many of the strats used in this run are detailed in the comments for our 100% TAS.
One radical difference between this run and the published warpless is P-wing usage: there are 3 P-wings available in each run, but we use them on entirely different levels.

P-Wing Usage

SourcePublishedSubmission
World 14-46-F1
World 45-16-F2
World 67-F17-4
We were able to go without P-wings on the prior levels with better non-flying routes (4-4, 5-1) and stretching the limits of the regular leaf (7-F1).
These strats freed up P-wings for use in other levels, saving time not having to wait for a platform (6-F1) and not having to serially regain P-speed (6-F2, 7-4). That said, SMB3 is a fairly horizontal game, and using a P-wing takes time both to equip it and to recover fire afterwards, so P-wings aren't a huge TAS time saver.

World/Level Comments

World 1

Unlike prior runs, here the Hammer brother is manipulated to stay over by the castle. This delays killing it, but it takes the same number of total steps, and fighting it at this map location makes a Flower available. Grabbing the Flower just as the scene ends lets us get the power-up saving 30 frames of animation delay vs getting Flower from the Airship.

World 2

The technique to run the Hammer brothers into each other off-screen allowing collection of the Hammer item has been known for a while. A lot of luck manipulation is required to make it work, however, and the savings up to this point resulted in terrible RNG to pull this trick off, no matter which crazy Hammer paths we tried to manipulate.
The nearly 3 second delay needed to manipulate the Hammers made a rather unexpected strat profitable. Instead of using a P-wing for the shortcut in 2-Fortress, as originally planned, we get a leaf in 2-2, ordinarily completed as Fire Mario.
Having the leaf makes a running/jumping level like 2-2 very complex and much slower as Mario rapidly loses speed when jumping/flying. Not using a P-wing also makes 2-Fortress slower because P-speed must be gained and repeatedly regained. With a lot of optimization, we were just able to get the leaf in 2-2, keep the P-wing, and still make the RNG work. Therefore, the completion time for World 2 is the same, but we still have a P-wing to use later.
Instead of taking damage on the boss in 2-Fortress, we keep the leaf for the tricky pyramid level, where we use careful P-speed management and the tail-flip attack to save about 1 second.

World 3

Another world that requires a complex Hammer brother path - here to avoid the need to fight both Hammer brothers to be able to get across the retractable bridges. This time the RNG luck was reasonable, and in an improvement vs the published run, the extra Hammer ends up trapped where it can't move (Hammers won't move over completed levels or the Spade game), saving the time it would normally spend walking twice (and the need to manipulate it).

World 4

Efficient manipulation and killing of Lakitu as well as speed-preservation by ducking off a ledge into water allow us to keep the Fire Flower for 4-4 instead of using a P-wing. This saves time in 4-6 and 4-Fortress2 (not having to get a new Flower).
Several frames are saved using a single large jump off a Koopa, rather than 2 small jumps, to clear a ledge in 4-Fortress2.

World 5

A strat demonstrated by GlitchMan is used to keep fire in 5-1. This loses about 3 seconds initially, but about 5 seconds are recovered having fire for upcoming levels, especially the Fortress boss and not requiring a Star for 5-7. The prior run didn't get fire back until 5-7.

World 6

About half a second is saved using a P-wing on 6-Fortress1 as Mario can fly up to the spikes without waiting for the platform. The star grab was also improved by a few frames.
World 6-5 is an underground level where Mario must get the leaf and fly up a narrow shaft to the exit pipe. Completing 6-5 was a natural choice in the published run because, while we'd found an above-ground skip for 6-6, it was pretty time-consuming and we'd lose additional time getting a leaf in 6-Fortress2.
The combination of GlitchMan's faster strat for 6-6 and the availability of an extra P-wing made doing 6-6 faster by about a second. Using the P-wing on 6-Fortress2 and clipping into the ceiling during flight also completes the level about 1/2 second faster than the published run.
Keeping the leaf after the 6-Fortress2 boss fight saves about 1/4 second by taking damage to achieve faster P-speed and less lag in 6-8.
The end of World 6 brings perhaps one of the most unexpected strats we found. Both the published run and the submission complete 6-8 as big mario, with no fire, and must complete either 6-9 or 6-10 to get to the Airship. There's an easy wall-jump shortcut to skip most of 6-9, making it the obvious choice. Unfortunately, the World 6 Airship has a leaf rather than a flower for its power-up, so the published run lost time stomping the Fortress3 and Airship bosses, but gained some back by flying up to the wand.
Thanks to the wall-jump wand grab, though, the wand grab is no longer faster with the leaf, and both boss fights are MUCH faster with fire. This fact, along with some minor savings having fire in 7-2, made it faster to complete the much-long 6-10, which has a Fire Flower. Overall savings are about 1/2 second.
While we were going nuts trying to save frames, we decided to waste some...the consecutive rows of white blocks are a fantastic place to show off the "buzz-saw" technique of grabbing and throwing rows of white blocks without losing speed. We took steps to minimize the extra lag, but it still clocked in at 25 frames. As it's a very dramatic TAS-only technique, we decided to take the speed/entertainment trade-off.

World 7

As mentioned, 7-2 is faster with fire. As in the 100% we perform the new 7-4 skip using a P-wing (it can also be done with a leaf but is about 3 seconds slower as you need to get P-speed twice).
7-Fortress1 uses the most technically difficult strat in this TAS. The default strats for this level would be to use a P-wing or a leaf, delaying getting P-speed until entering the first door. Of the two, it's faster to use the P-wing, which would then be unavailable for 6-Fortress2. We realized we could be keep the P-wing for 6-Fortress2 and be faster overall if we could get P-speed before jumping to the door in 7-Fortress1.
The problem was, getting P-speed that early didn't leave enough flying time to reach the tube that leads to the boss. When we tried, we either:
  1. Got far enough left, but not high enough to get in the tube
  2. Got high enough, but not far enough left
  3. Got neither high enough, nor far enough left
The solution came in steps, and after working on it for hours, we really didn't think it was possible until suddenly it was:
  1. Delay level entry to optimize the "8 frame counter" ($55c - same counter that enables sliding and jumping without losing speed, it influences acceleration and, when flying, involuntary deceleration)
  2. Optimize jump to door, to get 2 extra frames of flight time due to door frame rule
  3. Jump to block above door exit on correct frame for best combo of x/y velocity
  4. P-speed expires when Mario is at the ceiling to right of pipe
  5. Max x velocity flying is 23; now that we're falling need to accelerate to velocity of 33, the minimum to perform the pipe glitch, before falling too far. If 8-counter not optimized, can only reach velocity of 32
  6. X position must be correct to a single sub-pixel to do pipe glitch.
All in all, the 7-Fortress1 pipe-glitch strat saved all of 8 frames, but hey...
We use the cloud we saved from the 7-4 skip to skip 7-Fortress2, the longest remaining skippable level.

World 8

Very similar to recent published TASs, we did our best on the entertainment front and took 2 extra frames of lag to do so. There's an apparent glitch (doesn't appear intentional in the code) where stomping a bob-omb just as it stops walking causes it to explode immediately while granting a 1-up.
Note that World 8 is longer by 1.5s compared to the published run due to getting one more 1-up for having 3 cards at the end of 8-2. This didn't happen in the prior run it didn't complete 7-4. Skipping 7-Fortress2 remains about 12s faster overall.

Lord Tom's Comments

One of my favorite parts of making this was after we'd both concluded the 7-Fortress1 pipe glitch wasn't going to work but it finally clicked. I'd worked at it for hours, so I just watched it, laughing a few times...then when I sent it to Tompa he wrote back that he was just watching it, laughing.
So happy with how this run came out, also that it's finally DONE (thanks to Tompa keeping us moving & being so great to work with!), hope people like it!

Tompa's Comments

The 5th SMB3 run with Lord Tom has come to an end, been a pleasure as always. This took us long enough to make... When we reached 7-Airship and I realized that there would be four autoscrollers coming up... a lot of motivation was lost and it took pretty much months to get back to the run again. It's nice to have this run done now, such a relief!
It's time to take a break from TASing this game. Minor improvements have been found to the "game end glitch" run already, though that's nothing I care for currently. But we'll see what the future has in store!

Thanks

  • The SMB3 speedrun community for motivation and advice!
  • Again to GlitchMan for his WIPs that demonstrated some key strats

GoddessMaria: Super Judging Bros. 3!
GoddessMaria: Excellent work on the improved movie! Accepting as an improvement to the published movie.
Spikestuff: Righty-o old chap. Let's create some magic.


TASVideoAgent
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Spikestuff
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Ready for Publishing... for some reason. :3 Anyways, prewatched before submission, very entertaining, Yes Vote.
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
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Fortranm
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I'll watch the encode first. If Mario gets 99 lives, I'll vote yes. ...No, just kidding. This is a guaranteed yes vote. Good job, guys!
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Instead of watching the encode, do you want to watch a live TAS attempt? I will be running this on console at about 7pm PST today - in a little less than an hour and a half. It probably won't sync - the last warpless desynced in world 8 - but I will try... Edit: The run went well. It desynced after 2-1, just as PRG1 did on emulator. This is both a good thing and a bad thing. I need SMB3 PRG0 or a donor to continue, but it may verify yet. I'll see what I can do. Edit 2: I ran PRG0 SMB3 on console. It desycned as PRG1 did on console and emulator. This might (or might not?) be a helpful test in improving emulation.
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Not a huge fan of Mario, but this run was really entertaining. Yes vote.
effort on the first draft means less effort on any draft thereafter - some loser
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For those wanting to see a run where the player collects 99 1ups, you will be very disappointed. Anyways, why was I here? Oh yeah, yes vote!
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The subtitles didn't explain, so how did you get that bouncing fireflower on the world 1 airship? Nice work on the run!
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Spikestuff
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Derakon wrote:
The subtitles didn't explain, so how did you get that bouncing fireflower on the world 1 airship?
From the previous "warpless" TAS:
submission wrote:
The usual cannon hopping 1up chains here. But we also managed to show off a neat glitch with the fire flower.
subtitles wrote:
Nifty bouncing flower glitch
From the current "100%" TAS:
submission wrote:
The invisible block/bouncing flower glitch is done by hitting the block so that the item appears on the same frame the cannon spins.
subtitles wrote:
Bouncing flower & invisible block!
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account. Something better for yourself and also others.
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Very nice run! But I think "fastest" and "100%" are enough. Because most scenes we can see in warpless can be seen in 100% I think. Of course, there is something different , for example Item usage....
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Very entertaining as always! This was actually the first time in 15 years that I noticed the green blobs rocking back and forth in world 1 aren't ghosts but hills >_>
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Oh my goodness, I did not at all see this coming. /Yeah, this was good.
Expert player (2567)
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How come there's no 99 lives in neither 100% run nor warpless run? I almost burst into tears when I see this run only has 45 lives in the end. But anyway, this deserves a yes vote from me...
Recent projects: SMB warpless TAS (2018), SMB warpless walkathon (2019), SMB something never done before (2019), Extra Mario Bros. (best ending) (2020).
Tompa
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The reason for not getting 99 lives is the same as for the 100% run: It's an unneccesary waste of time that will showcase something already done in multiple runs since 2003. It's nothing original, it's nothing unique and it's nothing we want to sacrifice time for. Yes, we could easily get some more points, coins and lives without wasting any time, though nowhere close to 99. Is it really worth to care that much for? No, it is not. If you want to see a run with 99 lives, we already have several of those where the category and power up in use makes it doable, impressive and interesting: http://tasvideos.org/1590M.html But please, drop these discussions for every single SMB3 run, it's tiring. Thanks.
Invariel
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Fire power against all of the bosses is clearly the way to go. I really enjoyed 5-1, and all of the phasing through block shenanigans. Incredible job! Voting 'No' because you didn't get 99 lives. Obvious 'Yes' vote because that was entertaining, and the 1-Up noise 90+ times is not as cool as people make it out to be.
I am still the wizard that did it. "On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata <scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
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Spikestuff wrote:
Derakon wrote:
The subtitles didn't explain, so how did you get that bouncing fireflower on the world 1 airship?
From the previous "warpless" TAS: <snip>
Awesome, thanks for the explanation.
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One thought/idea: In 5-4, would it be possible to get a speed boost from the spinning bars at the very start of the stage? The reason I mention it is because in Ultimate NES Remix, this can be used to save time (but as Mario 2's princess), which means I have no idea whether this actually would work in any successful way here. Just my 2 cents. Awesome run guys!
Super Mario Bros. console speedrunner - Andrew Gardikis
Mitjitsu
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Great job guys :-)
Lord_Tom
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andrewg wrote:
One thought/idea: In 5-4, would it be possible to get a speed boost from the spinning bars at the very start of the stage? The reason I mention it is because in Ultimate NES Remix, this can be used to save time (but as Mario 2's princess), which means I have no idea whether this actually would work in any successful way here. Just my 2 cents. Awesome run guys!
Glad you liked it! I tested that 5-4 strat for the published run; you can finish the first screen faster, but then you go into the tube without P-speed and it ended up being slower due to losing time on the 2nd screen.
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Lord Tom wrote:
andrewg wrote:
One thought/idea: In 5-4, would it be possible to get a speed boost from the spinning bars at the very start of the stage? The reason I mention it is because in Ultimate NES Remix, this can be used to save time (but as Mario 2's princess), which means I have no idea whether this actually would work in any successful way here. Just my 2 cents. Awesome run guys!
Glad you liked it! I tested that 5-4 strat for the published run; you can finish the first screen faster, but then you go into the tube without P-speed and it ended up being slower due to losing time on the 2nd screen.
Would it be faster to do that initially and then get pspeed at the end of the 1st section? Just because id think the momentum would build pspeed slightly faster? Though, im probably wrong haha... pspeed only builds on ground, so idk if extra momentum starting would build it faster or not. I just like throwing ideas out there.
Super Mario Bros. console speedrunner - Andrew Gardikis
mklip2001
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Great improvement! I was surprised at how different this run felt from the previous versions. My favorite route change was probably seeing 5-1 with the fast crouch hopping to get the Music Box. Though I am disappointed we don't see the crazy flying tail strategies in 6-5 anymore... This is probably a record for lowest number of live in a warpless run, but I'm not complaining. The 1up glitch with the Bob-omb makes up for it. And nice job with the crazy 7-Fortress1 strat, even if it does only save 8 frames.
Used to be a frequent submissions commenter. My new computer has had some issues running emulators, so I've been here more sporadically. Still haven't gotten around to actually TASing yet... I was going to improve Kid Dracula for GB. It seems I was beaten to it, though, with a recent awesome run by Hetfield90 and StarvinStruthers. (http://tasvideos.org/2928M.html.) Thanks to goofydylan8 for running Gargoyle's Quest 2 because I mentioned the game! (http://tasvideos.org/2001M.html) Thanks to feos and MESHUGGAH for taking up runs of Duck Tales 2 because of my old signature! Thanks also to Samsara for finishing a Treasure Master run. From the submission comments:
Shoutouts and thanks to mklip2001 for arguably being the nicest and most supportive person on the forums.
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Should put a warning that the embedded video is using Adobe Flash instead of HTML5, this means you can't watch the embedded copy of the video at 60FPS. At least in Firefox 42 on Windows 10 x64.
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Tompa wrote:
The reason for not getting 99 lives is the same as for the 100% run: It's an unneccesary waste of time that will showcase something already done in multiple runs since 2003. It's nothing original, it's nothing unique and it's nothing we want to sacrifice time for. Yes, we could easily get some more points, coins and lives without wasting any time, though nowhere close to 99. Is it really worth to care that much for? No, it is not. If you want to see a run with 99 lives, we already have several of those where the category and power up in use makes it doable, impressive and interesting: http://tasvideos.org/1590M.html But please, drop these discussions for every single SMB3 run, it's tiring. Thanks.
Would help if this was in the submission text. Assuming people don't skim it of course.
One of my favorite parts of making this was after we'd both concluded the 7-Fortress2 pipe glitch wasn't going to work but it finally clicked. I'd worked at it for hours, so I just watched it, laughing a few times...then when I sent it to Tompa he wrote back that he was just watching it, laughing.
Don't you mean fortress1?
Samsara
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The 99 lives topic has been thoroughly discussed over two submissions, no further comments about it are needed. If you're still passionate about this for some reason, you can start a general thread for it elsewhere, but it doesn't belong in this or any future SMB3 submission threads.
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warmCabin wrote:
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great run loved every second of it! seeing that flower glitch on 1-airship was a new one, haven't seen that one before but it looked cool though. definite YES vote
live life
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The one thing that bugs me is that Tompa says getting 99 lives wastes time, but the run wastes 27 frames for speed/entertainment tradeoffs anyways... why not saving those 27 frames to make the run even faster then if getting 99 lives was avoided anyway?
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