I briefly tried this game out after seeing this topic. A few useless and useful notes:
- if you press A+B at the same time on top of OK in the screen in which you name your save game, the game name will become "PENGUI". (Normally you can't delete single letters from the initial name, the game just goes to the main menu).
- if you press A + down in front of a cave entrance that is on a platform that allows you to jump down through it, the player enters the entrance slightly displaced. Just a graphical glitch.
- if you lose all your health but manage to get more health before the death animation starts, you survive. Examining something also lets you survive, although you're left at zero life (essentially 1 life).
- I was somehow able to enter water while in Tobogganing mode (first pool, coming from the right side). The character just slided on the water on his belly as if it was solid ground. This is probably faster than normal swimming, but I don't know how easy this is to reproduce...
- if you turbo Tobogganing-mode, your momentum becomes "frozen", might be good for upholding the fastest speed possible.
- Umm... be mindful of the lag at the end of a mission. It seems to vary, but can be manipulated somewhat.
Gonna try this game out some more later, I guess. Seems a pretty nice game choice.
Joined: 1/8/2011
Posts: 74
Location: Saturn Valley Medical Center
I appreciate your help AKheon, I found the turbo-tobogganing glitch to be interesting. I'll redo the course using that. I'm already half-way through the arctic pen.
Here's some more:
- it's possible to do a double jump near things you can talk to with B. Do a jump, but press B to talk before you fly too high up. Clear the text prompts, then quickly press B and then A again, you should do a second jump.
- something similar to the turbo Tobogganing (from hereon: T. mode) effect also happens if you enter the T. mode and turbo the A button.
- because your character turns so wide in T. mode, it is possible to do longer jumps than in normal mode: you can put the character further into chasm edges before falling down. Also, by turning wide you can catch the next platform from farther away.
- you can actually shove the character some way into a ceiling using air T. mode very close to the ceiling. But it doesn't seem useful.
- Damage boosting is possible, but (up to the end of Giraffe pen) it hasn't yielded shortcuts.
- you can skip past the porcupine blocking the corridor with an air attack, then running past him. But at this point of the game, it serves no purpose (corridor is empty).
Joined: 1/8/2011
Posts: 74
Location: Saturn Valley Medical Center
Thanks, I redid the T.C. with auto firing L. It was incredibly fast. I'll test to see if it's faster auto-firing A. I have found many places to damage boost.Such as:
This one on the Training Course.
This one on the T.C.
And this one also on the T.C.
I'm still optimizing the giraffe and arctic pens. Once I complete them I'll post a WIP. Your research has been very helpful. Thank you for your help, as this is my first TAS.
The lag in this game is pretty awful at times, and I think that turbo L can actually cause more lag. Sometimes other techniques are preferable, like constantly jumping in T. mode.
Have you ever searched a game's memory? It would be useful to find the speed and/or location addresses of the player so that you'd know when you're traveling at maximum speed. It also allows a more precise way to compare different attempts (you can see subpixels, etc.)
I'd be interested in seeing a WIP...
So it seems. Ok, watching the run now. Random thoughts:
- never mind what I said earlier about the lag at the end of the missions: this was apparently an emulation glitch in VBA 23.5, and not a factor here.
- it looks like the first flagpole/trampoline could be jumped onto earlier. This would allow you to use your rising up time for moving right instead of just hugging the wall. Same is true for any other hypothetical situations where rising upwards and not sideways is the priority.
- since landing in water slows you down, I'd imagine that it would be faster to use other techniques than small jumps for getting over water. I was thinking of big jumps or (a technique I didn't mention yet) going in and out of tobogganing mode quickly at the edge of water: the character slides on top of water while his animation lasts, and you can continue this technique with a jump afterwards. (it's not the same thing as the other tobogganing + water glitch I mentioned earlier, still haven't been able to do it again.)
-not all damage boosts are equal, they too should be calculated to take maximum use out of. This comment doesn't necessarily refer to your choices of boosting here, it's just general advice.
- it would be great if you could save the big momentum you get from sliding downhill using either of the momentum keeping techniques (like turbo tobogganing).
- in the big swimming pool at giraffe pen, it's possible to not land all the way to the bottom by going into tobogganing mode at the end of the jump (you land on the lowest platform to the right instead).
It's a nice start... did you make another WIP after this that uses the turbo T. mode technique?
Joined: 1/8/2011
Posts: 74
Location: Saturn Valley Medical Center
Thanks again AKheon! First, this run does use Turbo Tobogganing on the T.C. Second, I'll test that water-tobogganing glitch. Third, the damage boosts aren't equal as you said, in fact the damage boosts birds and porcupines seems to be about the same. Walrus boosts however are more powerful, and spider boosts are not very effective and as such I only boost off a spider when I am in mid-jump. Another interesting thing I learned about walrus boosting is that after being hit by the walrus, if you don't touch land after about 15-20 frames, you fall through the platform you are on (if you are on an elevated platform that is). I'll post more things as I continue on the run.
Yeah, I just tested playing normally from the beginning to the end of the Green Circle slide on VBA23.5 and VBA24-M, and there was a lot less lag on VBA24-M by the end of the slide. I think you should stick with VBA-M.
Joined: 1/8/2011
Posts: 74
Location: Saturn Valley Medical Center
I completed the Visitor Courtyard yesterday, here are some things I learned during the level.
Walking is actually just as fast as short jumping. But I think I'll keep the previous parts of the run for entertainment purposes.
People have terrible collision detection, so I can be touching them as I begin the smile and wave animation, but they won't catch me.
Smile and Wave animations take a long time to complete. I am trying to find a way to bypass it. At one point in the run I can jump over one of them because the conditions were perfect, but I can not do this with the other people.
Parachute animation takes a surprisingly short time.
Barely into the Zebra Pen, I'll continue it today.
Just saying in advance, your movie is not as optimized as ought to be for TASvideos. The beginning has some parts that can be done faster... I'll try making a test movie of my own for comparison, ok?
According to the game's memory, it is equally fast to jump or walk. But each time you land you lose subpixels, so it is in fact recommended to jump as little as possible!
Apparently the character does not accelerate at all when starting walking - his speed is instantly the max speed. I always thought otherwise, but I guess it was the delayed camera that gave the wrong impression.
EDIT:
The memory addresses of this game seem to be pretty dynamic. For example, the character's location address changes whenever you switch area. Inconvenient.
Damage abuse grants you faster than normal walking speed as long as you fly through the air, but when landing there is one frame of no movement at all. It's still worth it, though.
Here's a test run I made, goes up to the fade-out at the end of the first training section. It's 542 frames faster at that point.
Some comments follow:
- any cinematics should be skipped at the first possible frame.
- boss should be damaged as quickly as possible. I take advantage of the flying kick that allows me to move while attacking and the fact that as the boss changes mode at 4 damage he has one shorter invulnerability period.
- more precise jumps. Also, water slows you down, so you definitely shouldn't land in there more times than what is absolutely necessary.
- more damage abuse, it is always worth it in this level.
EDIT 2:
Okay, I guess landing in water isn't that bad if you jump out the first possible frame. It actually costs you less sub-pixels to land in water this way than landing on ground.
If you don't jump out of water the first possible frame, your speed will come to a halt and you slowly accelerate back to the max speed.
I'm gonna continue the test TAS a little bit further, to play around with the tobogganing mechanics.
EDIT 3:
Sliding on ground while in Toboggan mode can make your speed decelerate. This can be avoided by jumping, for example.
Here's the test run up to the end of Tobogganing course. It's 816 frames faster now.
Some comments follow:
- going to the next course, it's faster to drop through the floor than walk around it.
- I minimize jumps using the strange technique above water.
- I avoid losing speed by using turbo T. mode up the ice hill. Jumping is almost as fast, though, just some sub-pixels slower.
- I preserve momentum through the tunnel by being in the transition animation. Jumping also prevents you from losing any speed.
- note how I switch back from T. mode without losing any speed.
- there's a technique to fall down quicker by repeatedly going in T. mode and out of it. At least in this instance it saves time.
- at the T. course, I slide down the hill to gain max. speed as soon as possible (seems to be 1159). Then I just avoid sliding uphill or doing anything else that would lower the speed.
An encode of the test TAS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJFwaou9_bg
Joined: 1/8/2011
Posts: 74
Location: Saturn Valley Medical Center
Nicely done AKheon. I have been thinking about doing the whole run over. I have become better accustomed to the emulator, and also I want to walk instead of jump because:
1) It looks kind of unprofessional.
2) It is easier to time jumps while walking (much easier).
3) It wastes subpixals.
Thanks for the info. I didn't take subpixals into account. I can't decide whether to do the run over now, or complete the run and submit it before starting over.
I think you should probably do the run over. The members won't accept your current movie because they'll know by looking at this topic that it's unoptimized.
You and AKheon could always co-author it.
Joined: 1/8/2011
Posts: 74
Location: Saturn Valley Medical Center
CoolKirby wrote:
I think you should probably do the run over. The members won't accept your current movie because they'll know by looking at this topic that it's unoptimized.
I'm taking your advice CoolKirby, I'll do the run over.
Good luck, remember to be creative and persistent in finding the fastest routes. Also use the advanced techniques like retaining momentum or falling down faster when the situation needs it.
If you want, you can use the input from my test run for your new attempt.
I was hoping starting the normal but i started penguin :P
Current:
Rayman 3 maybe? idk xD
Paused:
N64 Rayman 2 (with Funnyhair)
GBA SMA 4 : E Reader (With TehSeven)
TASVideos is like a quicksand, you get in, but you cannot quit the sand
I wan't to tas this with you But is there a way to get the more fastest possible?
Current:
Rayman 3 maybe? idk xD
Paused:
N64 Rayman 2 (with Funnyhair)
GBA SMA 4 : E Reader (With TehSeven)
TASVideos is like a quicksand, you get in, but you cannot quit the sand
Hello, long time lurker here.
This is a game I have been casually playing for a long time, long before I ever got into speedruning/TASing. When I found speedrunning back in 2012, I realized this game had potential as a speedrun and so I began to casually speedrun/glitch hunt for this game. I'm willing to bet at this point, I know more about this game than anyone else ever has. But I never really had any intentions of posting my discoveries online, not because I wanted to keep them secret but because I didn't really have any good means of posting them
But recently, I've been messing around with BizHawk and TAS movie making and I found it to be really fun. I figured out how to make a TAS movie, I figured out how to use Cheat Engine and find speed values. And so, I made a TAS of one of the early levels in the game, giraffe pen, and decided to upload it to youtube.
Link to video
I also wrote up a complete explanation of this run here: http://pastebin.com/k80td47s which can also be found in the video's description. Hopefully it's comprehensible enough.
I have to apologize about the video quality. As much as I know about this game, I know very little about the encoding process (all I did was use the AVI recording feature in BizHawk). If I could get some help on that front, It would be much appreciated. Also keep in mind that this is my first real TAS so if I'm doing something completely wrong or you see any potential improvements, feel free to let me know.
So now I'm planning on making a full game TAS, which would include many tricks and strats not used in the TAS above or mentioned in this thread. I ran up against a couple road blocks in the making of my giraffe TAS though, which I would want resolved before starting.
Primarily, I ran up against an annoying desync involving load times. For some reason, when I go through a loading zone from a savestate I get a different load time than if I play the whole movie from the beginning. This causes the movie to run perfectly when ran from a savestate but desync majorly when I try to play it from the beginning. Sometimes loading times also just seem to change randomly. I had to use the TAStudio feature in BizHawk in order to get my run to sync and even then it just sometimes seems to randomly desnyc. Does anyone know what causes this or how I can fix it? I'd really want to get this problem fixed before I have to deal with changing load times in the middle of a longer run.
I'm still fairly new at this whole thing, but I found this whole process to be rather enjoyable (if sometimes infuriating) and I'm hoping to produce a publishable run in the near future.
1. Welcome to TASVideos!
2. What GBA core are you using? That's a bug and you should report it either on the BizHawk forum section or the bugtracker (if you can).
3. Technically, there's a built in RAM watch and search feature built in on BizHawk, but I guess it's your choice.
This one on the Training Course.
This one on the T.C.
And this one also on the T.C.
I'm still optimizing the giraffe and arctic pens. Once I complete them I'll post a WIP. Your research has been very helpful. Thank you for your help, as this is my first TAS.
