Why is Tekken 3 so damn weird? I’m getting random frames on which character input doesn’t work, but pausing does, and viceversa. None of it is in lag, and timing of suicide hitting the opponent is even different in Training Mode (52f) from Arcade Mode (58f).
Wtf is going on. Edit: Wait no I think the dead frame is consistent between pausing and not. Frame 2171. Is it possible that something fucked up in my setup is making BizHawk not count lag frames properly? Whatever the issue is, this game is definitely lagging and BizHawk is not telling me, and I guess Arcade Mode lags more than Training Mode (understandably) so that’s where the difference in frames comes from. Now I just need to know if it’s an emulator bug or something wrong on my end.
Also pausing on frame 2223 is giving me 0″80 on the IGT if I start moving ASAP, but 0″81 if I start moving 1 frame later… This game is retarded. Edit: If I don’t move at all, it gives 0″88. Lmao. /// Must be some stupid RNG behaviour. Actually ending the fight with 1 frame lost gives me 0″81 IGT.
"Tekken 3 was completed with an IGT of 8"83 but then BizHawk came. [...] Accuracy was a big feast for this, as input drop became the issue for this TAS. It became a little harder to do Suicide. The input changed to support this newer input."
So how was it like in other emulators? It simply didn’t drop inputs?
I’ve never experienced such behaviour with any other game ever, and the fact that the in-game timer is also affected by the “input drops” is extra weird.
"Tekken 3 was completed with an IGT of 8"83 but then BizHawk came. [...] Accuracy was a big feast for this, as input drop became the issue for this TAS. It became a little harder to do Suicide. The input changed to support this newer input."
So how was it like in other emulators? It simply didn’t drop inputs?
I’ve never experienced such behaviour with any other game ever, and the fact that the in-game timer is also affected by the “input drops” is extra weird.
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Plush wrote:
That probably means the emulator is extra fucked
Something on your mind, son?
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I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
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So how was it like in other emulators? It simply didn’t drop inputs?
I’ve never experienced such behaviour with any other game ever, and the fact that the in-game timer is also affected by the “input drops” is extra weird.
Fake lag, which doesn't count the lag, isn't as uncommon. I don't know details about how fake lag works, but the game usually doesn't process input, but input was polled.
It isn't a problem of the emulator, it's just how some games do it.
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
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"Fake lag"/no-input lag is not an uncommon thing with PSX games. Just because you never heard of it doesn't mean the emulator is "extra fucked". Just like normal lag, it's just lag that is there at times and you just have to deal with it. It has nothing to do with emulator inaccuracies or emulator faults or whatever.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
I’ve never experienced such behaviour with any other game ever, and the fact that the in-game timer is also affected by the “input drops” is extra weird.
"Fake lag"/no-input lag is not an uncommon thing with PSX games. Just because you never heard of it doesn't mean the emulator is "extra fucked".
You may want to read again, I wasn’t the one saying the emulator was “extra fucked”. My only experience with PS games in a TAS setting is with Tenchu: Stealth Assassins on PSXjin and there is no such thing there.
Anyway, thanks for the explanation. In 5 years on this website I never came across anyone mentioning fake lag before. Would be nice to have an explanation as to why the emulator differentiates between true(?) lag and fake lag, though.
Also my original question is still unanswered…
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
Location: The Netherlands
ALAKTORN wrote:
You may want to read again, I wasn’t the one saying the emulator was “extra fucked”.
You may want to read again, I never said you were the one saying the emulator was "extra fucked".
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2821
Location: Northern California
ALAKTORN wrote:
My only experience with PS games in a TAS setting is with Tenchu: Stealth Assassins on PSXjin and there is no such thing there.
Anyway, thanks for the explanation. In 5 years on this website I never came across anyone mentioning fake lag before. Would be nice to have an explanation as to why the emulator differentiates between true(?) lag and fake lag, though.
PSXjin counts no-input frames as lag frames, while BizHawk does not. I don't know the specifics, but try taking Tekken 3 into PSXjin and you should see what I mean.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family.
Now infrequently posting on BlueskywarmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
Location: The Netherlands
ALAKTORN wrote:
Mothrayas wrote:
You may want to read again, I never said you were the one saying the emulator was "extra fucked".
Mothrayas wrote:
Just because you never heard of it doesn't mean the emulator is "extra fucked".
You mentioned something I’ve said right before saying that, so you may want to rephrase it if that’s not what you meant.
You = plural in this context.
Anyhow, to keep this discussion vaguely on topic, PSXjin and PCSX-rr show "fake lag" frames as actual lag frames. You may notice that when a game "lags" in PSXjin, it still renders and updates as usual, although it won't accept input. (Not entirely sure if Tenchu happens to be lag free, but for most if not all games I've run on PSX, this has been true)
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Your wording was ambiguous. Don’t try to act as if what you wrote was perfectly fine, right after calling me out when I did the same thing.
If other emulators count it as real lag that makes my question of why BizHawk doesn’t all the more relevant. Oh well…
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
Location: The Netherlands
ALAKTORN wrote:
Your wording was ambiguous. Don’t try to act as if what you wrote was perfectly fine, right after calling me out when I did the same thing.
There were clearly multiple people who were unaware of the concept of fake lag - you and Plush, the latter of whom's comment I referred to. There's no reason to assume I was exclusively talking to you.
Also I never called out your writing, I only called out your admissions to shitposting, of which there were multiple besides the one you are referring to. Now drop this silly issue.
ALAKTORN wrote:
If other emulators count it as real lag that makes my question of why BizHawk doesn’t all the more relevant. Oh well…
Because fake lag isn't real lag.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
I’d still rather you edited your post and made it clear.
Mothrayas wrote:
Because fake lag isn't real lag.
This is getting OT but how does it differ from real lag? Plush has sent me before a screenshot in SM64 on BizHawk of a lag frame that updated the screen, so even real lag can do that apparently. Edit: Actually I think that’s pretty normal with lag during load times, just unusual during gameplay (Plush’s screen was gameplay).
f,F+1+4 is standard Tekken notation for this move.
Says who? Doesn’t stop it from being wrong, anyway. Either you write the move itself with a specification: “F+1+4 (while forward dashing)” (NOT “while moving”), or you write it in full like I did.
K we're not going to argue about notation just because you have a problem with it. Stay on topic, thanks.
Shut up, thread derailing idiot. Their notation is wrong, PICK UP THE EMULATOR AND DO WHAT HE SAYS. The move won’t come out. I’m telling him to fix it, and even better would be to make it clear (instead of using dumb notation such as lowercase and uppercase, use actual words people can understand– “held”). But the semantics are a different point and I don’t care about them, all I’m arguing is that he fixes his WRONG notation.
I also had a question about Kuma’s move that was completely ignored.
Thanks for the link, but the notation being on some website online doesn’t stop it from being wrong. Again, I tell you, pick up the emulator and do what’s written there. The move won’t come out.
Thanks for the link, but the notation being on some website online doesn’t stop it from being wrong. Again, I tell you, pick up the emulator and do what’s written there. The move won’t come out.
Ok sure discredit an official source because you're ALAKTORN and you obviously know everything there is to know about Tekken.
....Despite the fact that you don't know anything about it, as shown from the previously http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17114 gruefooded topic where you went on a tangent over a fucking move that was obviously optimized because you pretended you knew what you were talking about.
I realize that you're baiting everyone by pretending to be retarded, I do get that.
But the only question is, why are you doing that? Why choose to be viewed as an asshole by everybody you ever meet on these forums? Seems like a stupid idea to me, just saying.
effort on the first draft means less effort on any draft thereafter
- some loser
Is there any goverment-signed international guideline for fighting game moveset notations? No, so people can invent any notation they think it's the best.
Btw.: Here are the notation legends: http://www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/legend.php
