The run is really good, with the exception of the constant map spamming. Other than that, there's not much to complain about. It was really cool to watch.
ok first of all, can everyone use real N64 addresses instead of whatever address mhs reports? They aren't that hard to figure out and having them makes it 100x easier to use addresses across different emulators. I really should make a proper guide for this, but writing takes a lot of effort for me. I wonder how many people still think that MHS doesn't work with PJ64
Assuming your monitoring NTSC 1.0, the first address's real address is 8011A5D0 (it's actually a word sized variable here, but if you treat it as a short it would be at 8011A5D2).
Also, that second address you list is actually used for setting up where you go to NEXT, not for storing your previous entry point... that's what the first address is for.
Anyway, looking into it, I figured out everything that is going on in the video.
Before I can begin, I need to explain zoneout types. There is a variable that stores what type of zone out occurred last. There are a few values that have different effects to them, but the most important ones here are zoneout types 1-3, and -3. Types 1-3 are special because these respawn link based on a previously stored coordinate. Type 1 is used for standard oobs checkpoints, Type 2 is used for returning from a grotto, Type 3 is Farore's Wind. Type -3 is used for zoning out from a warp song, but overwrites some of Type 2's variables.
You start off by playing Minuet, while locking your current entrance index in order to reach the top of Tower Collapse. When warping with Minuet, Type 2's entrance index is overwritten, setting things in motion.
When you reach Tower Collapse, zoneout type 1's respawn is set. You then lock the current entrance index to 61. This is actually wrong because the value of 61 is the scene id for the Grotto, not a proper entrance index to one. It works out fine though in your video because the proper entrance index is 0x3F (63 in decimal), and you are an adult, giving you a complete entrance index that takes you to the grotto, but if you were a child you would end up in the shooting gallery.
Now when you fall oobs like you do in your video, you trigger a Type 1 zoneout, causing you to reload the tower collapse zoneout coords. Your next entrance address is set to the tower collapse zoneout, but locking the current entrance index variable to 61 causes you to spawn in a grotto.
When you spawn in the Grotto, zoneout type 1's respawn is NOT set, because this is special cased. There are two reasons for this. First, when setting the return point Farore's Wind copies zoneout type 1's coordinates over into zoneout type 3. Second of all, it's a little known fact that Farore's Wind initially work everywhere at one point during development.
This brings us to exiting the grotto. Leaving a grotto sets zoneout type 2, and zoneout type 1's respawn is not updated again. The zoneout type 2 respawn is only fully initialized on entering a grotto. By default, all variables for zoneout type 2 are zeroed out, meaning that you spawn at entrance index 0 (Deku Tree), in room 0, at coordinates 0,0,0, rotation 0, with Link's spawn parameter set to 0, making him invisible and with locked controls. By playing minuet at the beginning, this sets your entrance index to 0x600 (Sacred Forest Meadow) instead, but with all other variables mostly the same.
Lastly, since you spawn and fell out of bounds, you triggered a zoneout type 1, which is still the tower collapse respawn. The best part here is that you can then lock your current entrance index and start the process all over again.
ok first of all, can everyone use real N64 addresses instead of whatever address mhs reports? They aren't that hard to figure out and having them makes it 100x easier to use addresses across different emulators. I really should make a proper guide for this, but writing takes a lot of effort for me. I wonder how many people still think that MHS doesn't work with PJ64
Assuming your monitoring NTSC 1.0, the first address's real address is 8011A5D0 (it's actually a word sized variable here, but if you treat it as a short it would be at 8011A5D2).
Also, that second address you list is actually used for setting up where you go to NEXT, not for storing your previous entry point... that's what the first address is for.
Anyway, looking into it, I figured out everything that is going on in the video.
Before I can begin, I need to explain zoneout types. There is a variable that stores what type of zone out occurred last. There are a few values that have different effects to them, but the most important ones here are zoneout types 1-3, and -3. Types 1-3 are special because these respawn link based on a previously stored coordinate. Type 1 is used for standard oobs checkpoints, Type 2 is used for returning from a grotto, Type 3 is Farore's Wind. Type -3 is used for zoning out from a warp song, but overwrites some of Type 2's variables.
You start off by playing Minuet, while locking your current entrance index in order to reach the top of Tower Collapse. When warping with Minuet, Type 2's entrance index is overwritten, setting things in motion.
When you reach Tower Collapse, zoneout type 1's respawn is set. You then lock the current entrance index to 61. This is actually wrong because the value of 61 is the scene id for the Grotto, not a proper entrance index to one. It works out fine though in your video because the proper entrance index is 0x3F (63 in decimal), and you are an adult, giving you a complete entrance index that takes you to the grotto, but if you were a child you would end up in the shooting gallery.
Now when you fall oobs like you do in your video, you trigger a Type 1 zoneout, causing you to reload the tower collapse zoneout coords. Your next entrance address is set to the tower collapse zoneout, but locking the current entrance index variable to 61 causes you to spawn in a grotto.
When you spawn in the Grotto, zoneout type 1's respawn is NOT set, because this is special cased. There are two reasons for this. First, when setting the return point Farore's Wind copies zoneout type 1's coordinates over into zoneout type 3. Second of all, it's a little known fact that Farore's Wind initially work everywhere at one point during development.
This brings us to exiting the grotto. Leaving a grotto sets zoneout type 2, and zoneout type 1's respawn is not updated again. The zoneout type 2 respawn is only fully initialized on entering a grotto. By default, all variables for zoneout type 2 are zeroed out, meaning that you spawn at entrance index 0 (Deku Tree), in room 0, at coordinates 0,0,0, rotation 0, with Link's spawn parameter set to 0, making him invisible and with locked controls. By playing minuet at the beginning, this sets your entrance index to 0x600 (Sacred Forest Meadow) instead, but with all other variables mostly the same.
Lastly, since you spawn and fell out of bounds, you triggered a zoneout type 1, which is still the tower collapse respawn. The best part here is that you can then lock your current entrance index and start the process all over again.
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2823
Location: Northern California
Yashichi wrote:
what
Post of the year
Also wait why would you even splice a TAS in the first place? I get splicing realtime runs, but what is there to gain from splicing together a TAS? Am I missing something here?
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family.
Now infrequently posting on BlueskywarmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2823
Location: Northern California
Ah, I see. Yeah, I was thinking about it from the same perspective as one would splice a realtime run.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family.
Now infrequently posting on BlueskywarmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
We spliced it because it was impossible to record in in one go. We had to do a few TAS files? Because it desynced very often. And yes, some savestates were wrong as you noticed, but none of these change anything in the gameplay. It's also a few seconds slower.
we'll do our best in our next TAS. Hopefully we'll get it done using one .m64 file.
We spliced it because it was impossible to record in in one go. We had to do a few TAS files? Because it desynced very often. And yes, some savestates were wrong as you noticed, but none of these change anything in the gameplay. It's also a few seconds slower.
we'll do our best in our next TAS. Hopefully we'll get it done using one .m64 file.
it probably wouldnt have desynced on bizhawk though
Some people use firefox. Some use chrome.
You all act like I'd have to use bizhawk. I'm way more used to mupen and I really don't want to switch over to bizhawk. Mhs adresses wouldn't be the problem, but I don't want to use bizhawk :) hope it's fine for you guys.[/userfile]
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2823
Location: Northern California
Spikestuff wrote:
Unless you're a masochist.
(Someone who enjoys pain/tedious work)
(pain/tedious work/using Mupen)
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family.
Now infrequently posting on BlueskywarmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4090
Location: The Netherlands
MoronicTAS wrote:
Some people use firefox. Some use chrome.
And some people use Internet Explorer, but those generally tend to be the people who don't really know any better.
Really though, I can't wrap my head around the fact how you're complaining about how mupen is causing desyncs, but still you refuse to use an alternative which was specifically made to be an improvement to mupen, and which is far more stable.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Joined: 12/8/2012
Posts: 706
Location: Missouri, USA
"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." - 1 Corinthians 2:9
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2823
Location: Northern California
MoronicTAS wrote:
Im not complaining about mupen :)
MoronicTAS wrote:
We spliced it because it was impossible to record in in one go. We had to do a few TAS files? Because it desynced very often. And yes, some savestates were wrong as you noticed, but none of these change anything in the gameplay. It's also a few seconds slower.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family.
Now infrequently posting on BlueskywarmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
MoronicTAS, if you don't intend to submit to tasvideos, it's all up to you what emulator you want to use. I do however think that the time needed to set up BizHawk and getting used to its interface will be well worth it in terms of productivity and features.
Plus you can actually make pretty videos of the run without having to sacrifice a goat to the A/V dumping gods.
