Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Um... unless I'm really missing something here, you posted a TAStudio project file, right?
It's bee awhile since I used TAStudio for the last time, so I don't know how to play it back.
But I think I've figured out why your "conversation" with Wrinkly is noticeably faster;
the published run only presses the B button to skip text, a regrettable mistake...
edit:
I finally managed to watch your file on the emulator. TAStudio can export it to a .bk2 file after all.
But looks like you are getting out of Wrinkly's house a little earlier, and you'll have trouble to finish the run.
To test for the last frame you can safely exit the house, enter the house again.
If you see this text;
Hello there, it's me -
Msr. Wrinkly Kong!
then you did it too early and she will offer to save your game again at the end of the run.
She must be doing something else when you return to her house,
you'll see a different message if you went out at the right frame.
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
As I said, I don't plan on completing a full game run. I'll fix the save cave exit if/when I do the next level, though.
Also I figured that the RNG is changed by water.Either in the overworld or in a level, having the water on screen changes the RNG every few frames. Getting in the 2nd bonus barrel scrolls the camera up, but getting in the right way will have the RNG still changing for a while.
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Wow, you can see improvements all over the place. I LOL'd at Ripsaw Rage. :)
To have one of my runs obsoleted by such a great run wouldn't bother me.
(Well, not really, I'd love to have found all those improvements, but still...)
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Wow nice. Does anyone have a comparison vid or something?
Edit: Wait a second, isn’t that guy’s robot boss fight a lot slower?
In some stages it looks like he doesn’t even save time… His last boss looks slower on a few hits.
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
ALAKTORN wrote:
Wait a second, isn’t that guy’s robot boss fight a lot slower?
Yeah, you're right. He even lets the robot fire its lasers...
But the guy did a really good job with the other bosses, like Belcha.
In any case, I'll do a test run with the Japanese ROM to see why he fought it like that.
It must be different, as I can only attack the Krimps (pink crocs) from behind.
edit:
Nope, there are no differences in terms of physics between JP and USA versions.
You can keep the kongs above the boss as long as you want, he just made a mistake there.
About the Krimp, it's also possible to defeat him the same way on the USA version:
you just need to turn around for one frame as you're about to touch him. Nice find.
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Why do Spanish people find so many bugs in the DKC series? There was another YTer full of vids.
Also, cool stuff Dooty. Will we be seeing an improvement…?
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
The Spanish language is pretty close to Portuguese in a way. Some people even think we speak Spanish here in Brazil. :)
Anyways, and we thought DKC3 was glitchless... Nice video, Kurabupengin.
ALAKTORN wrote:
Will we be seeing an improvement…?
Most certainly, yes. But I'm leaning towards the Japanese version, too.
I know that my decision to switch to the PAL version on DKC2 ended up failing.
But this time I'm quite certain that the JP will be a lot faster than the US one.
Oh, I almost forgot;
"Allow clock throttle to take over for audio"
Without it, the sound of some menus would play too fast.
(This also fixes the sound issue on DKC2 PAL)
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
I think it's the screen transitions, when the game has to load a new area it loads them faster on the JP version.
The JP version reaches Funky's workshop ~100 frames faster than the USA version, for example.
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
A little update on the progress of the run:
Belcha's fight is slightly faster than the published run. It seems faster than the YouTube video, but without the input file it's hard to be sure.
In any case, that last "bump" to get the coin, as in the published run, is not working.
It may be one of the differences of the Japanese version, so I'm still trying to find a faster way to grab the coin.
Oh, the faster transition theory seems to not hold anymore. I'm not saving any frames by advancing to a next area.
Now I don't know why the Japanese version reaches Funky's workbench so fast...
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm26145502
^The original Nicovideo also links to this in the description, not sure what it’s about: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm26154581
He also says in the description that “Chaos” was the only thing that wasn’t improvable on the JPN version… but Dooty said otherwise.
He had 169952 rerecords btw, that’s pretty ridiculous.
Here’s the input file btw: https://kie.nu/2xMOhttp://www.nicovideo.jp/nicorepo/1/26304448/14304908518603
love_R
こちらを公式のv1.51（？）のSNES9Xで読み込めば多分シンクロすると思います。比較すると穴が見えるかもしれませんが気にしないでください...orz May 02, 2015, 23:13
love_R
あとエミュの違いでBGMのBPMが違うので、比較しているとそのうちBGMがずれていきますのであらかじめご了承ください May 02, 2015, 23:18
Sounds like he used SNES9x v1.51.
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Thank you for the input file, ALAKTORN. Now I can compare both runs with ease.
Yes, he's using Snes9x 1.51 and Super Donkey Kong 3 - Nazo no Krems Shima (J) (V1.0).
I was using v1.1 and even wasting some frames to input my nickname,
I reached Lake Orangatanga 56 frames ahead of him.
My Belcha's fight was indeed faster, but he collected the coin better than I did.
But my Doorstop Dash was terrible now that I can compare it, so I must restart the run anyway.
ALAKTORN wrote:
“Chaos” was the only thing that wasn’t improvable on the JPN version… but Dooty said otherwise.
I'm terribly sorry, I just jumped into conclusions there.
You can indeed keep throwing the other Kong as long as you like, yes,
but as soon as you bump on an enemy you'll lose the ability to do so. :(
So, the USA version with the new tricks used in his run seems to be the way to go.
In any case, the "fix" for the sound doesn't work once the run is encoded with BizHawk.
(And that's the main reason I won't submit my DKC2 run...)
Also, my computer can't handle lsnes, so I'll have to use Snes9x 1.51, too.
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Also, my computer can't handle lsnes, so I'll have to use Snes9x 1.51, too.
Not a particularly good excuse - even my old E350 was able to run it, though at half speed at most. Used it for all old SNES verifies. Still, good use of savestates can get you by...
(I would also like to see if this game is verifiable...)
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Um, that's true. I think I can fix it pretty easily as soon as I complete the run;
by importing the run into BizHawk, it synced nicely up to Skidda's Row.
But I really need to use Snes9x right now as it's a lot easier to test the USA vs Japanese versions.
This way, I'm able to copy chunks of the published run and combine them with Love R's strategies.
I just finished Arich's Ambush using the US Rom, 427 frames behind of Love R's run.
But I found a new trick on Belcha's Barn to gain some height with team throws.
So a new strategy to defeat Chaos will eliminate that advantage, hopefully.
But if it turns out that the Japanese version is indeed faster,
then I won't have wasted too much time just to find that out.
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Oh, I just realized my mistakes and I felt ashamed of that post. :(
1) the hidden Bear Coin can be collected on the US version too
2) the memory address of Demolition Drain-Pipe is the same
So, the continuous jumps on the saw are kind of easy to perform, but I was doing it wrong.
Also, the vehicle of Demolition Drain-Pipe loses its momentum pretty easily.
Love R's technique to keep it is better than mine. I'll fix it in the final run.
In any case, the trick to gain height with team throws also works on Chaos!
I can start to bounce on his head a lot sooner than Love R did in his run.
I'll post a movie file as soon as I finish Chaos. It won't be a WIP, though.
If everything work as I'm expecting, I'll restart the run using lsnes v23.
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Hello,
Yes, there are several differences between us and japanese version.
Just to further clarify. The reason he has to kill chaos the way he does is because in the US version you can infinitely team throw after bumping while in J you can't. Previously japanese runs never knew about this team up jump and had to use a damage boost for one of the last hits, while US version can just keep team throwing and trying to kill it in one cycle staying infinitely in the air.
There are also several different bee cycles as well in J and US, but not a big difference regarding time.
The main thing however, is how much time is saved in J vs US. Many of the speedrunners have experienced that J runs much faster, but it is still unclear how much time is saved in either what is maybe transitioning or loading. 1 person has said that it might be over a minute faster though by playing J, which is a very huge number.
So with the new way the japanese run can kill, it might overall be the fastest version with that boss kill and transitionings.
Hopefully, Dooty can figure it out :)
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Your explanation is correct, the faster screen transitions on the Japanese version sucks.
I'm splicing some of Love R's stages into this test run, and most of them sync from start to finish.
So there are little to no difference inside the stages, and most of the new tricks work on both versions.
(the infinite team throw on US being the advantage of this version)
Here's the movie file that beats Kaos using the US version;
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/23295211280973873
I'll finish this test run for the sake of it, but I did some math and it looks bad.
There are three worlds up to Kaos, and I was 710 frames behind.
From here, there are four worlds, and I'll start 1106 frames ahead.
The Japanese version is more or less 237 frames faster by world, so;
237 x 4 = 948
1106 - 948 = 158
Only one hundred and fifty eight frames faster than the Japanese version...
...if I manage to optimize the vehicle stages like Love R did, that is.
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Yes, I can. I'm already using some of Love R's inputs. Also, the vehicles in both versions behave the same, so it's pretty simple to splice those sections.
But I mean in the final run, where I'll have to actually play the entire game. I have no problem to include Love R as a co-author, but I don't know if he wants it.
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Okay. That would be really nice, thanks.
And a little update on the progress, or lack thereof;
Floodlit Fish stage does not sync neither with my nor love_R's run...
Weird as Enguarde seems to move differently on the Japanese Rom.
Even weirder is the fact that it also seems different compared to the published run!
I know that I used Kiddy back then and now I'm using Dixie.
But since the stage is played by Enguarde, I can't figure it out.
So, I'll have to play it myself. Not really a big deal, but it will take some time.
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
