Joined: 1/6/2014
Posts: 15
Location: United States
I am currently trying to get a TAS done for the original Pikmin, but I hit a snag kind of early on.
The RNG that determines where Pikmin sprout from and grow. I will re watch what I currently have done and each time they sprout in different places so I will be off when I watch Olimar try and pluck them all.
I am currently reading up on how to manipulate it and see what determines it and how to go about it. But I am very new to all of this, if anyone has a good starting point then I would love to hear it. Or even some advice or tips on making a completed TAS.
Thank you for reading and anyone who posts advice!!!
Joined: 1/6/2014
Posts: 15
Location: United States
A little more detail about my problem, plus I have been doing some testing.
What is happening is that when I switch to Read Only mode to watch the inputs and what I have done so far, Olimar becomes desync'd very easily. The Pikmin fall from the onion differently every time I re watch. Sometimes they fall correctly, but most of the time they don't.
So I am wondering if that is something I could manipulate.
If everything is happening on the same thing each time,i get confused on how I can get it to work for me.
I tested it about 20 times to see if I can see any kind of pattern, but none occured.
So I am lost on how to continue from here. Any advice at all would be helpful.
when I switch to Read Only mode to watch the inputs and what I have done so far, Olimar becomes desync'd very easily. The Pikmin fall from the onion differently every time I re watch
Your movie desynced, probably because the Dolphin version you're using has desync issues. What Dolphin version do you use? Try to use Dolphin 4.0.2
Joined: 1/6/2014
Posts: 15
Location: United States
I am using 4.0.2.
The spawn points of the pikmin change.
In example, Olimar runs to the spot I had used while doing the inputs, but the pikmin aren't there this time.
Is that RNG that I need to figure out?
Maybe the config settings you use are causing it.
I made screenshots of the settings that I'm using in 4.0.2. 32bit.
http://i.imgur.com/YqgOcfr.png
Otherwise it might really be a problem with the game. Maybe I can give it a try myself, but I have other plans for the weekend..
Joined: 1/6/2014
Posts: 15
Location: United States
Okay, I finally finished school and have some free time to tinker with this again. Plus, a video showing what my issue is!
Yay!
Sorry for no sound though, and spelling errors. Made it in one go. Any advice is appreciate!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwqy04fWZOo&feature=youtu.be
If you’re playing back a movie file and everything isn’t exactly the same every time, it’s not a problem of RNG or whatever, it’s a problem of sync that could depend on the emulator, ROM, settings or whatever else on the hardware level rather than the software. Edit: nevermind the fact I’m misusing the hardware/software words… hope you can understand what I mean anyway.
I don’t do Dolphin TASing so I can’t be much help, but don’t bother trying to “manipulate” the RNG, if it’s not even synching in the first place.
Previous TASes:
Frogger's Adventures: The Rescue
Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door any% x 8
Paper Mario 64
Luigi's Mansion
Sonic Heroes - Team Sonic
Mario Kart Wii ILs
Joined: 1/6/2014
Posts: 15
Location: United States
Okay, I think I finally have it figured out.
Whenever someone mentioned 'dsync' I thought they meant how my inputs got messed up. I wasn't aware that the game itself could lag and desync itself. So, realizing that and looking at what everyone posted, I finally have it consistent! Thank you all!
Hi there! I'm really interested in seeing a TAS of this game. As a Pikmin runner myself (I've been running this game for years now), I thought I should weigh in on this.
I don't want to discourage you or anything, but, I do hope you know what you're getting into with TASing this game. Running the game is hard enough, let alone trying to optimize a TAS. Heck, we don't even use the best (known) routes in RTA runs! There are a lot of subtle things about the mechanics of this game, that you really need to have a good grasp on if you want to run/TAS this game.
How familiar are you with runs of this game? The routes? mechanics? tricks? Have you ever tried running the game yourself? I really think that would help out a lot, with understanding the mechanics of the game.
Also, how much thought have you given to what version you are using? While the GC version seems to be the standard for runners, pretty much everyone agrees that the Wii version should be much faster. There are upsides and downsides to both versions. For example, the way bomb-rocks work has been changed in the Wii version to make them generally less useful (and at least for RTA runs, it makes 1-cycling the final boss impossible. I don't think anyone's tested TASing that). But on the Wii version, in addition to the cursor being disconnected from your movement, you can also skip the end-of-day cutscenes, saving around 34 seconds per day (a little under 3 minutes over a 6-day run).
All that said, I'm really looking forward to seeing what you can do with this TAS, and if there's anything you're having trouble with, I hope I can help you out with it.
Also, how much thought have you given to what version you are using? While the GC version seems to be the standard for runners, pretty much everyone agrees that the Wii version should be much faster. There are upsides and downsides to both versions. For example, the way bomb-rocks work has been changed in the Wii version to make them generally less useful (and at least for RTA runs, it makes 1-cycling the final boss impossible. I don't think anyone's tested TASing that). But on the Wii version, in addition to the cursor being disconnected from your movement, you can also skip the end-of-day cutscenes, saving around 34 seconds per day (a little under 3 minutes over a 6-day run).
I would go with the version that is faster in its gameplay. So, if the Wii port was just faster overall because of cutscene skips, but slower in terms of actual gameplay, I think GC should be used.
So, what version is faster just by gameplay?
Current project: Gex 3 any%
Paused: Gex 64 any%
There are no N64 emulators. Just SM64 emulators with hacky support for all the other games.
Well, that's a tough question. All of the top runners play on GC, and only one person has ever gotten a 6-day run on Wii, as opposed to three people who have gotten it on GC. Most people play on GC, and none of the Wii runners have gotten a run even comparable to the top GC runs. So it's really hard to say.
The route actually has quite a few differences between the versions, because of some tricks that are only possible with the far-throwing that's allowed because of the pointer.
Joined: 2/27/2013
Posts: 23
Location: United States
PiePusher11 wrote:
There are a lot of subtle things about the mechanics of this game, that you really need to have a good grasp on if you want to run/TAS this game.
Would you be willing to be roped into writing a game resources page for it on here? Basically it's a detail of the tricks and skips used, as well as stuff like memory locations and how the RNG works.
Well, I've never looked into TASing the game, so I have no clue about memory locations or RNG. But there's this playlist on youtube, with a lot of helpful stuff for tricks, routes, etc. A lot of RTA runs are on there, too.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbLfswHl_MIJ5-tAHplI1WpzXv9ijT3PN
Joined: 1/6/2014
Posts: 15
Location: United States
That is a very useful link PiePusher, a quick look and I do see the videos from himajin4572 and his really good route and 6 day run. I will watch the other resources on the list and see if anything else helps me out.
@riking What are memory locations? And from what I can tell, the RNG that I can seem to notice is just where the Pikmin fall from the Onion when it is time to sprout. Each frame it is different.
Joined: 1/6/2014
Posts: 15
Location: United States
Is cheat engine allowed?
Like, I wasn't 100% towards the idea of actually doing this well enough to post on here. But it seems a few people are interested in it, so I might. Just wanna make sure on a couple things first.
Is cheat engine allowed?
Like, I wasn't 100% towards the idea of actually doing this well enough to post on here. But it seems a few people are interested in it, so I might. Just wanna make sure on a couple things first.
You can use Cheat Engine to do things like:
1) Find out the memory addresses for things like X, Y, Z, position, etc. as well as more complicated things.
2) Observe what their values are in real time, to help with TAS optimization and theorizing about tricks.
3) Set the values directly to see if a trick is theoretically possible.
But you cannot use Cheat Engine to:
1) Change memory addresses in mid-TAS and have them recorded in the final TAS.
In fact, this is impossible, since the TAS file format only records what input you make - and Cheat Engine memory address sets aren't input - so the TAS will not include them and desync.
In other words, the use of Cheat Engine is investigatory and for experimentation, I am not suggesting you 'make a cheat TAS' or anything like that :)
Well, that's a tough question. All of the top runners play on GC, and only one person has ever gotten a 6-day run on Wii, as opposed to three people who have gotten it on GC. Most people play on GC, and none of the Wii runners have gotten a run even comparable to the top GC runs. So it's really hard to say.
I have a really hard time believing it's a hard question. Wii version is definitely faster by a ton.
