Just wondering (been a while I've watched the DKC2 TAS or followed this thread);
are the glitches in the beginning of this video known?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tun8Ftitd6s
Joined: 8/15/2005
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I don't of any being worked on at least. I stopped working on DKC 101% long ago, I simply can't finish Croctopus Chase. Would love to finish the run though.
I have however no interest in TASing the other two currently.
Joined: 6/13/2006
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I would only ever make a new DKC2 Any% TAS if something major was discovered. There was one possible glitch that makes Dixie/Diddy walk off the map: http://www.nicozon.net/watch/sm11943480
If that ends up leading to something, then sure.
^is that basically Start+Selecting while loading a bonus, entering any level, losing the bonus and then beating the level? (may not recall accurately)
does it give you freedom of movement on the map, or does it shoot you upwards? even if it gave freedom of movement, I don’t think it’d help much because the next levels are still all hidden until you get to them…
Someone posted this glitch on reddit.com/r/speedrun. One of the ghosts didn't spawn for them, nor did the timer, so they could run through red - barrels at their leisure. Might save some time for a TAS.
http://www.twitch.tv/rambolicious/c/3620939
it’s probably something to do with having lost Diddy shortly before, and dodging the red barrels I don’t even think loses time… so I don’t see it being useful
Joined: 6/2/2009
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While I was testing the new wrong warp location, posted by Garrison, I found some new things;
In the 1.0 PAL version, both the wrong warp and the team up jump work perfectly.
There's also less lag, and the game runs a lot smoother on BizHawk.
(and no, it's not a PAL game running at 60fps)
And as a bonus, Diddy's speed is a lot higher, though it takes more frames to start the second roll.
So, my question is; can a PAL game obsolete a USA one?
I'm asking because Krow's luck manipulation is a lot harder in this version, so I want to be sure before start working on it.
I want to work on an new 102% run, and since I can do both tricks now, the run will be a lot faster.
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
While I was testing the new wrong warp location, posted by Garrison, I found some new things;
In the 1.0 PAL version, both the wrong warp and the team up jump work perfectly.
There's also less lag, and the game runs a lot smoother on BizHawk.
(and no, it's not a PAL game running at 60fps)
And as a bonus, Diddy's speed is a lot higher, though it takes more frames to start the second roll.
So, my question is; can a PAL game obsolete a USA one?
I'm asking because Krow's luck manipulation is a lot harder in this version, so I want to be sure before start working on it.
I want to work on an new 102% run, and since I can do both tricks now, the run will be a lot faster.
Yeah very good news Dooty! If improvements are possible you will work with the good old team? (NxCy, Comicalflop, ...)
I am very glad to see action on this game again! As for the PAL thing, I would strongly urge not using it just due to the lack of popularity in the realtime speedrunning communities, meaning all the improvements would come explicitly for TAS purposes and not really play a part in the 60ish realtime NTSC runners around the planet. That said, that's just my opinion, feel free to do whatever you would like :)
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TheKDX7 wrote:
If improvements are possible you will work with the good old team? (NxCy, Comicalflop, ...)
The old run was more a crazy idea than a proper partnership between us, I used their inputs in what I called "Reusable TAS".
But of course redoing all the stages will be alot easier with their help, if they want, or have the free time required.
Garrison wrote:
As for the PAL thing, I would strongly urge not using it just due to the lack of popularity in the realtime speedrunning communities
The 102% can be done with the USA v1.1 rom to include some wrong warps, but the lack of an infinite team up jump will make it slower.
The any% already uses the USA v1.1 since the team up jump is not needed, but then there's the extra lag of those newer emulators...
Here is where the PAL v1.0 comes in to fix both problems; less lag and more glitches for the 102% and possibly the any%, too.
But a lot of the tricks we currently use in the DKC2 TASes were found by real time speedrunners, and since they don't use the PAL version, that's a thing to consider.
So, I'm still not working on a run to submit, instead I'll keep posting my results here and gathering suggestions. Here's a test on the PAL v1.0;
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/16964280391845621
(Donkey Kong Country 2 - Diddy's Kong Quest (G) (V1.0).smc)
Link to video
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Joined: 6/2/2009
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Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
At least the any% is in need of an update after that new wrong warp, but I'm kinda worried about the use of the PAL rom for the 102%;
Tompa wrote:
please don't use the debug code to get the 75 Kremkoins early, that's just dumb.
Um... the constant enter the cabin, grab the bananas and repeat is kinda annoying I have to agree, and although it will make the run slower, I think it's a good trade off. On the other hand, it will make the AVI shorter, so I'll keep tha in mind, thank you.
by the way, the bonus fanfare is kinda weird on the PAL v1.0. It just returns to normal after you press "Start" to skip it.
I don't think it's supposed to be like that on a real hardware, so I'm starting to think about a possible emulator inaccuracy...
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
I actually like the fact that you beat the boss in Lost World before you beat the boss on the airship.
Such routine looks like an interesting sequence break.
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Well, since I am responsible for putting the trick on the published run, I must admit that I'm also fond of the results more than the trick itself.
So, this is what we have for the new 102% run, with or without the 75 Kremkoins, PAL vs NTSC, BizHawk or Snes9x etc.
1) without the Kremcoins the run will be more challenging
2) using the PAL Rom will make it a lot faster and more glitchy
3) playing on BizHawk will make it smoother than on Snes9x
There's still the fanfare problem, but it's a really small issue. The NTSC Rom also have the weird sound, so I don't know what is causing it, maybe it's my crappy computer not handling BizHawk as it should.
So, until we figure out the best setup for the new 102% run, I'll try to improve the any%. I'm at Kannon's Klaim at the moment, 969 frames ahead, and I'm using the PAL Rom. I'll post a WIP as soon as I beat Kleever.
All the tricks that I'm using are doable on the NTSC Rom, so the real time speedrunners won't have much trouble to implement them in their runs.
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Does the PAL rom have the slower bosses that NTSC 1.0 has? Pretty much every boss at least on the NTSC versions was sped up a lot for 1.1. Just curious if this was something that was considered or if it still ends up being faster from teamthrow glitches.
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Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Um... slower bosses? I can't remember finding speed differences on boss fights when I was working on the published any%.
The only advantage of the 1.1 rom was Kreepy Krow, as you can get on top of his ship faster than him.
Is that what you mean, Kreepy Krow? If so, I still don't know but I'll test it tonight.
About the team up jump, it won't be used on the any% run, so the use of the 1.0 or 1.1 rom will make no difference.
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
I believe kleever, both krows, king zing all move slower, potentially krool and kudgel as well. May not be the case with the 1.0 PAL Rom, but it's definitely the case with 1.0 NTSC
Joined: 6/2/2009
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I did some tests here, but couldn't find any difference in terms of speed of the bosses.
In any case, I may be doing the wrong calculation, so here's the Lua script I'm using;
http://pastebin.com/1SBe4LrR
It's the same script used to create the published run, but modified to work on BizHawk.
Oh, and Kreepy Krow behaves exactly as on USA v1.1, so that fight won't be slower.
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
What about using lsnes?
It'll probably allow a console-verified run.
EDIT:
Dooty wrote:
Eye Of The Beholder wrote:
Btw, you would try the lsnes, did you find problems to use it?
Yes, I did, but some tricks are simply impossible to do due to the amount of extra lag on the new emulator, also the sound is a little worse.
How can a trick be affected by the lag?
I thought lag is something that only makes some computations last twice as long without changing any rules of the game (including frame rules), because even the internal frame counter of the game is frozen during lag.
Joined: 6/2/2009
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Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Well, not really impossible, I think I exaggerate a little, sorry. But there are tricks on Castle Crush that are so hard to perform with the added lag that I ended up saying they're impossible.
(for example, the team up jump near a prickle of porcupines)
Saving during a frame of lag also caused me lots of trouble back then, so I wanted to avoid lag as much as I could.
I'm not using Lsnes now because my computer for some reason runs it very slowly. BizHawk 1.8 runs pretty bad here, too.
(I'm using BizHawk 1.7 and it runs surprisingly smooth)
But aren't there ways to convert BizHawk files into Lsnes files? I'm pretty sure that Ilari did this for one of my runs.
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Hello,
After seeing this talk about what version to use, I looked a bit into 1.0 pal. I only tested by doing a playthrough using realtime speedrun strats while on snes 1.51x. I'm not sure if it'd be the same for lsnes/bishawk, but I figured I'd try to list the differences I spotted anyways.
The boss timings are definitely different than 1.1 U/J, but is also different from 1.0 U/J. It's a lot closer to 1.1's timings though and seems to be mostly insignificant. All bosses except Kleaver and Kudgel seem to be different. Kreepy Krow, I was still able to bump off of him (though only at the end of the 2nd set of ropes after the up barrel) which is impossible on 1.1 U/J.
Rambi's dash is significantly slower. Enguarde's dash seems slightly slower not sure though. The rest of the animal buddies feel roughly the same. None of the other versions have had Rambi like this though.
There are quite a few rolls that work on 1.1 and 1.0 that do not work on this version. The slow startup rolls also limits some of the options you are normally able to do in several of the levels. Some of the hitboxes feel a bit different, namely in rattle battle but also a few others, though that is probably due to speed/rolling differences.
The team up scrolling glitch in 4-1 after mounting on the spider after dismounting the hook is much slower than all the other versions. Meaning you'd most likely be forced to use the spider route instead.
Castle crush is mostly the same but without lag, several of the spinies and hook guys have different timings though. The spinies at the typical barrel break spot for castle crush glitch run out much faster and the hooks thrown are much slower. I believe the hook throwing speed is changed in windy well as well.
The lag does feel pretty much non-existent throughout the game, though I feel that they don't add up to be too much in the other versions with lag reduction.
Also the team swap glitch that allows for wall zipping cannot be done in here but are possible in the other 1.0 versions.
---
This is just my opinion, but I don't really see the need for changing to pal. The team up throw jump glitch would not play significantly in any level except perhaps kleaver.
And to be honest, the pal version felt rather clunky to play after playing the other versions due to the slow startup of the roll. I don't think a speedrunner would ever want to play this version. Though I suppose that shouldn't really factor into whether a TAS is made on it.
