Just looking at your very first instruction what does " barrel store with hammers" mean?
Oh sorry, I literally emailed and copied these notes from my iphone. Just have luigi set to hammer in the front row before you pound him into the ground. Getting hand is easy and lets you go get super hammers and airport and stuff, but the deeper stuff really looks like it has potential. Love your work BTW :)
(from phone)
well the TAS is improvable by slight changes and by getting a mushbadge. but youre not going to improve past that unless you really can get to the deeper stuff in the forest already. and from my testing i dont think you can. or do you have any certain ideas? cant seem to read any idea from your last post
EDIT: Sorry I was kinda sleepy earlier. Now I understand your instructions better and I'm playing around with them. Looks like it's indeed possible for Luigi (front) to scroll through all the action commands.
EDIT2: It's been so long since I did this M&L stuff.. I can't seem to remember why we had to go get firehand in the first place...
-> to get Mario to have firehand which leads to him getting ACG.
I guess this is useless since it's not Mario we're giving the ACG. Only he would benefit from it since him having a certain hammer makes it possible to pound Luigi and keep ACG, leading to teleportation later on. Luigi in front having ACG doesn't seem useful.
EDIT3: Mario(small, behind Luigi) can have Firehand but you cannot switch places. Otherwise Mario could get ACG early. My last idea was to make an enemy encounter make small Mario big and then you could have acquired ACG with Mario's firehand (behind Luigi). However, you in fact lose the firehand as soon as you become big.
okay, so I found a way on emulator to get big mario fire hand and it lets you do all the essential speedrun glitches. However the ID's are all different on console so I'm having trouble getting luigi a barrel break icon and not having the right one means you do barrel storage again 4 times, ugh. This is the method I have working on emulator starting from a successful luigi ACG.
press R 10 times (or 7, jump on and press 4),jump off, pound and emerge. Break barrel, go to sign and switch bros, press l 4 times, set mario in back to hammer, use luigi spin jump to jump on, press r 5 times, jump off, press r until you get a 2nd hole icon, hammer mario, press a to make a 2nd luigi appear with a blank icon, go to a [!] sign, switch in front and press l once, mario should have an X icon. Switch, hit mario with hammer twice and he should now have fire hand.
I have no idea how to record a video of this without mistakes.
EDIT: you can do sign glitch on console with any blank icon, there's probably an easier way to get spin jump luigi
EDIT2: found one. barrel glitch with both front and back bros with hammers, jump off and switch to hammer behind, break out of barrel in front, go to the sign and switch, press l 8 times, switch, mario spin jump on and off, switch, press l 2 times for spin jump on luigi in back.
EDIT3: GOT IT ON CONSOLE! set mario in front to jump and in back to hammer, spin jump on mario and press r 15 times, you now have the hole icon. hammer mario and pop out luigi, go to the sign and switch, press l once, same X, switch back and hammer him twice. Voilla!
Link to video
this glitch can also get you firebrand on mario in front.
One more thing: the file I tested this on had super hammers early, so that might be a snafu in this glitch showcase, but I assume it affects nothing.
Firebrand on US is 2 R button presses.
Really nice! We're close to the 1 hour mark in the TAS now.
The way I got it to work seems to differ slightly from your way.. I'm going to post the instructions that worked for me in VBA-24m JP ROM:
- Barrel glitch, Luigi(front) breaks out and gets blank
Mario(behind) can have anything.
- Luigi(front) sees sign, switch brothers, press L 4 times.
- Switch them, Mario(back) starts and stops spinjump mode, switch them.
- Luigi(behind) now has spinjump. Start it.
if Mario(front) had hammer, press R 5 times.
if Mario(front) had regular jump, press R 6 times. Should have hole now.
- Emerge from it, switch them.
- Mario(behind) should have hammer. Now Mario(front) with blank walks to the sign, switch them, press L once (should have X).
- Luigi(behind) pounds Mario twice, Mario(behind) should have hand now.
(This was written down without having read your edits)
I got it to work on J console - http://www.twitch.tv/altabiscuit/c/4914819
The main difference from guesst's instructions is when Luigi has spin jump is I need to hit R 10 times.
As far as the J route is concerned this shouldn't change anything prior to this point. Instead of going to Oho Oasis after the barrel room I go straight to Fungitown on the RTA, TAS could go straight to Popple and Birdo from this point. Though I'm pretty sure the TAS can save time if it gets the Mush Badge too because it would save time on Cackletta.
My initial estimate of 7 minutes saved due to this glitch seems a little high now though. It's probably around 4 minutes instead, but the TAS can still shave off more time than that with a Fungitown route potentially.
I'm not sure how this affects English version yet, there's one issue that needs to be worked out first, barring that it's looking at 30+ minutes saved and it might be faster than J.
- In case this got lost and forgotten yesterday:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYPFaTZOdhQ coffee shop clip
- It seems like the loading zones for the throne room and for 1 house I tried outside of the coffee shop aren't even there..
(- The advice guy in the east town just tells you about Cackletta being in the university.)
- Using the sign glitch, I got barreled Luigi to hop on barreled Mario lol
- Using the sign glitch, I got barreled Luigi to hop on barreled Mario lol
That reminds me, you can also give mario a break out of barrel icon with luigi spin jump. Is it possible to combine it with the credits glitch for more consistent results?
I too have thought about if the sign glitch findings could influence the peach speech glitch. But in the end, I don't think those findings have any influence.. The glitch effect doesn't only occur when Luigi gets the "ID 255 blank" command; it can also occur for example when Mario pounds on Luigi. (I don't know if this is going to make sense for you, but the "ID 255 blank" command is the only blank command that makes sign glitch happen, and I don't see a connection between that blank and the peach speech glitch)
As for Mario barrel having any special or different effects, I doubt it. I can test it quickly and will edit this post if I do find anything.
The credits glitch is conflicting for me because I haven't been able to console verify it (or any of the other glitch effects that wasn't a crash). So if it's like an emulator glitch, I would rather not investigate it any further at the moment. I would love it if players like you could look into console verifying it in my stead (I did test it for 2~3 hours and the game always froze or got to the yellow battle screen).
For everyone's awareness, altabiscuit's time is now 1:27:37. Also, I might get back to TAS planning sooner or later.
Back in January when my computer died, I lost access to some important files. I could have those files back now but I wouldn't really be able to understand them anymore. I'm going to have to look at this game from the very beginning and build a new textwall of information to summarize everything in. It's going to take forever and I'm not particularly motivated but I want to go at it someday.
(have to plan
- item collecting
- hige/pow levelups
- mushroom plan
- battle plan (I'm not really sure how many mushrooms are best to have to take down Birdo and Cackletta with Chopper Bros (unadv)))
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>Maybe TAS can come very close to going sub 1 hour.
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>I'm not really sure if English or JP is now the fastest version...
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>I was rereading part of this forum topic.
Someone said they'd have liked to see a glitchless any% TAS - and I agree such a run would be a nice project but it would take way more time to plan out and I'm just not interested.
Later on I saw old posts where I feel like I was behaving like a child, not submitting the old run for stupid reasons - in particular, I don't know what happened here. I would have liked to submit my old run but it feels wrong to submit a run that's years old and outdated. I'd like to submit a new version once I finish it (and if I fnish it There have been TAS projects I ditched).
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About Zero Def Glitch:
Video.
This glitch is from December 2012. Back then I deemed the glitch useless because getting Thunderhand takes too long. More importantly, I think you needed to get the scroll from the hammerguys' new home's bonus room which took too long and costed money (?). I also never got the Youtuber's demonstration VBM to sync.
Somehow, now I get it to sync using VBA 23 instead of 24m. I might be looking at the usefulness of this glitch later although I still deem it useless.
Current:
Rayman 3 maybe? idk xD
Paused:
N64 Rayman 2 (with Funnyhair)
GBA SMA 4 : E Reader (With TehSeven)
TASVideos is like a quicksand, you get in, but you cannot quit the sand
Joined: 12/1/2012
Posts: 103
Location: New Donk City
MUGG wrote:
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About Zero Def Glitch:
Video.
This glitch is from December 2012. Back then I deemed the glitch useless because getting Thunderhand takes too long. More importantly, I think you needed to get the scroll from the hammerguys' new home's bonus room which took too long and costed money (?). I also never got the Youtuber's demonstration VBM to sync.
Somehow, now I get it to sync using VBA 23 instead of 24m. I might be looking at the usefulness of this glitch later although I still deem it useless.
Oh, I should've thought to tell you I was using VBA 23; I don't TAS much, and ROM compatibility hasn't been an issue for casual playing, so I haven't bothered updating. It's a bit surprising that it wouldn't be useful, but seeing as Knockback and Chopper Bros. do so little damage after 8-12 hits, they'll hit the 2 damage minimum regardless with the POW you'd have, I imagine. And yeah, I guess you would have to go all the way to Gwarhar Lagoon to get Thunder Bros. in the first place.
Regardless, I'd be interested in seeing more Mario & Luigi as well!
Yeah, for a while I was confused if you learn Thunder Bros by learning the hand power or by reading a scroll from the hammerguys' cave. Now I see you have to go through the tutorial in Gwarhar Lagoons where you use a back brother's hand on the front brother (according to Floogal). Of course going through that tutorial would take too long.
Yesterday, I was discussing with altabiscuit on Twitter if English or JP will be faster for the next TAS. Either way, I'm going to have to look at his WR videos for both versions.
1. English Cackletta 1200 HP vs. Japanese Cackletta 800 HP
2. English Cackletta exposed heart stays 3 turns vs. Japanese stays 2 turns
Heart stays exposed always 2 turns on both versions.
3. English Mushbadge boosts are far greater than in Japanese
4. There will be more skips to do in English because you cannot "barrel clip" in English so you have to rely on other tricks.
5. Also, in English the levelup roulette doesn't cap at 1 after you took the same thing a few times in a row. You can keep getting 3's for HIGE or POW as you like.
6. VBA-24m doesn't emulate the glitched action commands correctly in English. Might need more investigation or looking back at some posts I made a few months ago (where I talked about emu differences).
7. Cackletta's soul on English gets the first turn.
1: puts Japanese in favor
3: puts English in favor
4: TAS will do all skips very quickly.
But places such as Teehee Valley, skipping past the rock in English may take a lot of time (10~15 seconds). Maybe it is possible to "hat clip" leftwards through the row of rocks and then go up to the next room like that. (It would be pretty crazy for Mario & Luigi TASing to go that way, just "teleporting" through every room. But according to my research, teleporting can only be done right after you enter a room. You cannot walk around a bit and then do it)
I'm not sure what altabiscuit does to enter the exit way in Bowser's Castle in English (hop on Luigi and have to go through all commands, costing 3~6 seconds in TAS, or can you prevent that time loss?).
I'm not sure either what altabiscuit does in Teehee Vally heading to Fungitown. TAS on Japanese could just barrel clip through everything, but English...? Might cost a lot of time putting Japanese back in favor again.
5: Good little bonus for English, but not really important.
6: This could be a huge problem. If glitched action commands behave vastly differently between English console and English emulator, I won't be able to use the English version. In that case I'm going to take the Japanese version without a question.
7: We can luck manipulate her to charge pow and def maybe, which would then only cost 5 seconds.
6: This could be a huge problem. If glitched action commands behave vastly differently between English console and English emulator, I won't be able to use the English version. In that case I'm going to take the Japanese version without a question.
Can a bug report be filed? Or are there no active devs?
I do not have the means right now to test on console but here are some old posts:
25th Jan 2014 wrote:
What else I found out:
The minimario->barrel glitch behaves differently between emulator and console on English. On emulator, I would set up the glitch, start the high jump, and press L 18 times (as in Japanese) and I would get "jump on barrel". But on console I always got "nothing". It is possible to get "jump on barrel" on console in English by setting up the glitch, start highjumping, pressing L 11 times, where the screen has to be mildly flickering at the 9th screen and the last screen. Then you stop highjumping and press L two times. Note: I got one case where I got "jump off of barrel" after 1 L press after highjumping was done.
-> Very slight chance of the glitch working differently every time? I.e. the same action command ID might give you something different very rarely? (I dont think so)
-> When doing barrel glitch, the same ID gives different action commands between console and emulator. Therefore, English glitched runs shouldn't be done on emulator. Emulator doesn't emulate the glitches (peach speech, barrel glitch) correctly on English.
When doing the action command/barrel glitch, there are differences with the screen flickering. So, as an example, when you're at a particular action command ID, the console may flicker a bit and the emulator only flickers once (2 lag frames) and then never again. Those are slight differences because flickering doesn't change anything.
The differences between English console and English emulator are strong though. Because the same action command ID gives a different icon. ID 31 for Mario when behind Luigi, gives "nothing" on console and "barrel" on emu.
You don't need to test on console because... You can learn what the input is for a trick in the english RTA route and do it on emulator, and if it ever doesn't match up you can report it as a bug :D
Sign glitch in English:
Starting Commands.
Front Mario: Jump
Back Luigi: Jump
Front Luigi: Jump
Back Mario: Hammer
Get stored barrel commands, break barrel, walk up to sign
Swap bros, Press L 10 times*
Swap bros, jump on Luigi with Spin jump, face opposite direction, jump off
Swap bros, press L twice
Should have Spin Jump on Back Luigi at this point
Step away from the sign so Mario gets a regular jump icon
Jump on Mario with Spin Jump, Press R 15 times**, Jump off Mario
Should have "Jump out of Ground" icon on Mario
Jump out of ground, swap bros, switch Back Mario to Hammer, swap bros again
Walk to sign, swap bros, Press L once (Back Mario will have a small X)
From here you can swap the bros, after Luigi hammers Mario it will give Back Mario Firebrand.
* On console when cycling through action IDs the game will sometimes skip IDs at random. This doesn't always happen and you have to pay attention to the visual and audio cues to notice it. I've had several occasions with this and the action command glitch in general where you can press L the same number of times on console and get different results. This same behavior occurs on the Japanese version too but it does not happen as often.
** When pressing R here on console the game will sometimes skip far ahead in action IDs and give high pitched chimes and a different background instead. This is beneficial because when you start hearing these chimes you can stop pressing R after hearing it twice because you'll have the ID you want when you jump off of Mario. This behavior does NOT happen on the Japanese version and on top of that you only have to press R 10 times on Japanese instead of 15.
Why this happens I'm not sure and I'm only pressing R when it happens. Sometimes it happens and sometimes it doesn't and the speed of which I press R is irrelevant.
I'm going to hopefully get a few videos out today showing the details.
EDIT:
Sign Glitch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qakYxBNRf1E
Get stored barrel commands, break barrel, walk up to sign
Swap bros, Press L 10 times*
Swap bros, jump on Luigi with Spin jump, face opposite direction, jump off
Swap bros, press L twice
On VBA-24m this takes 4 L presses instead of 10 to get Luigi's Spinjump. There are also no visual or audio cues whatsoever.
Should have Spin Jump on Back Luigi at this point
Step away from the sign so Mario gets a regular jump icon
Jump on Mario with Spin Jump, Press R 15 times**, Jump off Mario
On VBA-24m this takes 1 R press and 2 subsequent R presses, or 2 R presses and 1 subsequent R press to get "jump out of ground" for Mario.
Should have "Jump out of Ground" icon on Mario
Jump out of ground, swap bros, switch Back Mario to Hammer, swap bros again
Walk to sign, swap bros, Press L once (Back Mario will have a small X)
This works correctly.
Please also post how many L-presses I need to get "jump on barrel" now, using a small tunnel. (EDIT: I need 12 L presses to advance to ID30 (ID31 is "jump on barrel"))
I could always do a TAS with the glitch slightly different but I'm not sure... I also don't know how or where to post a bug report, not that I'm confident at all if anyone will look into it. I thought klmz is working on the emulator and his last update was in April 2013?
For getting barrel:
English: Press L 12 times, hop off, Press L 2 times
Japanese: Press L 18 times, hop off, Press L 2 times
This assumes no action IDs are skipped.
English: Press L 12 times, hop off, Press L 2 times
As my EDIT said, on vba-24m this takes 12 L presses and only 1 subsequent L press. I did test this at least three times so it isn't random skipping ahead.
If not too much trouble, please also describe or post your pastebins so I know what you do in certain situations:
- What do you do in Teehee Valley in order to skip past the rock towards Popple/Birdo?
- What do you do in order to enter the exitway in Bowser's Castle? Do you have to cycle through all glitch commands after you "barrel hop" on Luigi or is there away to prevent that?
- What do you do to perform both "hat clips"/"huge skips" in Teehee Valley? How many L presses etc.?
- What do you do in the 2nd room after entering the yellow pipe towards Popple/Birdo? I saw there was a video for it - are you aware of it? Do you do the same thing as in the video?
Testing all these on emu will help me see if they're doable and how severe the differences are. Also in the future, I want to try to optimize those tricks if possible.
