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You play as a submarine that is entirely unrelated to the UEO seaQuest DSV 4600. In normal gameplay, you get 10 * (1 + currentLevel) points for destroying a fish or an enemy sub, 50 * currentLevel points for each diver you rescue, and 10 * (1 + currentLevel) * your remaining oxygen when you rescue the divers. After reaching level 8, using the No-Despawn glitch, I collide with a sub for 3 minutes until I reach the maximum score of 999999.
This submission is in response to the feedback for #4291: morningpee's A2600 Seaquest "maximum score" in 00:06.02. Credit goes to VELHO for discovering the glitch.

Game Objectives

  • Emulator used: BizHawk 1.6.1
  • Fastest time to 999999
  • Manipulates luck
  • Ends input early
  • Uses a glitch

Luck Manipulation

The game uses a 217-index LCG to generate random numbers at address (02h). By paying attention to these values, you can control which side of the screen the diver comes from and avoid RNG values that result in no divers.
If divers are on-screen when you finish a level, the same number of divers will spawn immediately at the beginning of the next level, and at the same depths. you can wait a certain number of frames (unaffected by (02h) ) to control which side of the screen these divers spawn from.
By waiting, you can also control which sides of the screen fish will spawn from. This is also unaffected by the RNG at (02h).

Limitations on spawning divers

There are 4 separate depths that divers swim at. Generally, you must collect divers from all 4 depths before being able to spawn divers from the first depth again. For example, if you collect a diver at depth #2, you must collect divers from the three other depths before spawning a diver at depth #2 again. This detail limits the efficiency with which you can collect divers, and significantly impacts the routes I take.

No-Despawn Glitch

Normally, when you collide with a fish or enemy sub, the enemy despawns immediately, and your sub despawns 35 frames later. However, by colliding with an enemy in a special way, you are able to prevent the enemy from despawning, which keeps your sub's despawn timer from completing.
In this case, you get 10 + 10 * currentLevel points for every frame you are in contact with the enemy, for currentLevel <= 8. For example, if you perform the glitch on level 4, you receive 50 points for each such frame.

Optimizing the No-Despawn Glitch

There are two types of enemies: Fish and subs. Because each fish bobs up and down, there is no way to perform NDG (no-despawn glitch) on a fish so that you are in contact with it the entire time until 999999 points. It is possible with an enemy sub, however, as only its rudder moves.
The most significant problem is to decide which level to perform the glitch on. Consider these details:
  • Using a preliminary run as a basis, the average, optimized, luck-manipulated stage will take 747.5 frames to complete.
  • The first stage begins at frame 129.
  • Once you have performed NDG, you gain 10 + 10 * currentLevel points per frame until you reach 999999 points, for currentLevel <= 8. After level 8, you still get only 90 points per frame.
We can use an equation to model the number of frames it would take from each level to reach 999999, if x is the current level and y is the frame estimate. Note that we only need the integer part of x:
y = 130 + 747.5 * floor(x) + 999999 / (10 + 10 * floor(x) ), x <= 8
Minimum frames is at level 8. Note that the actual minimum of the function would be at x = 10 if it were not bounded, but that level 10 offers no advantage over level 8.
Using this method, it takes 4 minutes and 39 seconds to reach the maximum score of 999999. At this point, the enemy swims away (without ever despawning), and the kill screen is shown. In the kill screen, the "Activision" text at the bottom is replaced with "Copyright 1983", though you never actually die. This is the same behavior as when you reach 999999 by means of normal gameplay.
For comparison, see this [dead link removed] savestate, where 999999 is reached by normal means. After a few seconds, the seaQuest will collide with a fish, "Copyright 1983" will be shown, and your sub does not despawn.

Levels 1-7

These levels are completed as quickly as possible, using careful luck manipulation and route planning. At the beginning of level 5, a diver spawns at depth #1, so I don't need to kill the fish for diver #1 in level 4 for the carryover. In level 8, I don't need to collect any divers, so I don't kill any extra in level 7.
The barge that floats at the top of screen limits how many extra divers I have time to collect in level 5. I only had time for 1. It also limited how far left I could be at the end of level 7.

Level 8

In this level, my goal is to hit the correct point at the back of a right-to-left sub quickly. By returning to the surface with only 1 diver, I can cause the fish to swim faster, which will let me trigger NDG sooner. Frame 5870 is the soonest I can surface, or else the enemy sub that I use for NDG will spawn from the left side of the screen instead of the right, which I do not want. This is why the fish turn green before leaving the screen on level 8.

RAM Watch

RAM addresses are here.
To summarize, this max score TAS of Seaquest is comparable to Tetris because I am reaching 999999 as quickly as possible. It is also different from Virtual Pinball because there is a clear ending point here.

feos: Rejecting and publishing Accepting to Vault and publishing...


TASVideoAgent
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This topic is for the purpose of discussing #4310: morningpee's A2600 Seaquest "fastest 999999" in 01:39.80
BigBoct
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The video is private.
Previous Name: boct1584
morningpee
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boct1584 wrote:
The video is private.
Thanks, fixed.
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The length of time that the glitch takes to get the score to maximum will probably send a lot of users to the No button, but I'm giving the run a Yes based on everything before the glitch point and as props for the glitch use. The first couple minutes are clearly optimized, quick, and reasonably entertaining for an Atari 2600 game. I digs!
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Is the video entertaining?
Is the gameplay portion entertaining? Reasonably so. Is three minutes of score counting up afterward entertaining? No. Still not sure what was meant by "killing the divers".
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Point of order: This game is completely unrelated to the 1990s TV series.
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Wow.... that was intensely boring. It may be a good use of the glitch, but I've seen vault schlock more entertaining than this.
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What jumped out at me the most about this run is that it really looks superhuman. The seemingly split-second decisions the seaQuest makes, the speed at which it gets the divers, and the obvious planning put into building up the score as fast as possible all set this clearly apart from the real-time run. The information in the submission text makes it even more apparent how technical this run is. So I have to say I was entertained. Yes vote!
Spikestuff
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I didn't expect that. YES Vote.
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Much better than before! I was way more impressed with this version!
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Now this is what I expected from the first TAS. Can't really say it's very entertaining, but a very good technical achievement and it shall get published. Voted meh.
Lord_Tom
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Ha! I thought this was a great movie and glitch, never having played the game. Gameplay well above average entertainment-wise for A2600. Obviously watching the score count up is boring but seeing it start doing so is a good laugh moment. Yes vote here.
morningpee
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Thanks for your feedback, everyone.
eternaljwh wrote:
Still not sure what was meant by "killing the divers".
I meant killing the fish for that diver, but I see how I was unclear.
ObadiahtheSlim wrote:
Point of order: This game is completely unrelated to the 1990s TV series.
That's a good point. I'm not sure how I got the NBC show confused with this.
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Post subject: Movie published
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This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [2599] A2600 Seaquest by morningpee in 01:39.80
Post subject: Re: #4310: scahfy's A2600 Seaquest "fastest 999999" in 01:39.8
Noxxa
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It appears the judge forgot that "maximum score" or similar is not a vaultable category. As we don't do unpublications on this site, this run has instead been 'corrected' to Moons. Just putting this here for clarification.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Post subject: Re: #4310: scahfy's A2600 Seaquest "fastest 999999" in 01:39.8
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Mothrayas wrote:
It appears the judge forgot that "maximum score" or similar is not a vaultable category. As we don't do unpublications on this site, this run has instead been 'corrected' to Moons. Just putting this here for clarification.
I think it's vaultable, since it was mentioned in that the game "ends" at max score:
After a few seconds, the seaQuest will collide with a fish, "Copyright 1983" will be shown, and the seaQuest does not despawn. To summarize, this max score TAS of Seaquest is different from Virtual Pinball because there is a clear ending point here. It is also different from Tetris because you don't need to die to win.
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Why was it mooned even before my reply? This is Vault, because fastest maximum score is the only certain ending point for this game. The submissions tells it well. Also, #3966: Spikestuff's PSX Bishi Bashi Special "Time Trial, maximum score" in 05:13.50
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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feos wrote:
Why was it mooned even before my reply? This is Vault, because fastest maximum score is the only certain ending point for this game. The submissions tells it well. Also, #3966: Spikestuff's PSX Bishi Bashi Special "Time Trial, maximum score" in 05:13.50
Compare to its brother: #3781: Spikestuff's PSX Bishi Bashi Special "Maximum Score" in 33:53.43 That's why the "Time Trial and Max Score" is in Vault because it does less levels and is in a time trial mode compared to the other one which does all the levels and obtains a Max Score.
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Spikestuff wrote:
Compare to its brother: #3781: Spikestuff's PSX Bishi Bashi Special "Maximum Score" in 33:53.43 That's why the "Time Trial and Max Score" is in Vault because it does less levels and is in a time trial mode compared to the other one which does all the levels and obtains a Max Score.
What exactly are you saying? I'm saying that some games have a max score goalset that is still vaultable.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Spikestuff
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feos wrote:
What exactly are you saying? I'm saying that some games have a max score goalset that is still vaultable.
Yes but the game choice chosen was already set for Vault because 2 things. 1) Wasn't all the levels. 2) Was a Time Trail thing.
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Vault doesn't care of time trial or any other goal. As long as it's the fastest, and not a newgame+ kind of run, it's vault eligible. However, #2621: Dammit's PSX Bushido Blade 2 "Slash Mode" in 04:20.23.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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feos wrote:
Why was it mooned even before my reply?
If administration sees an error, it has to be corrected immediately. I discussed it with adelikat and Nach on IRC before changing it, but you weren't there so I couldn't get an immediate reply from you.
feos wrote:
This is Vault, because fastest maximum score is the only certain ending point for this game. The submissions tells it well.
I find it somewhat dubious. The little "copyright" blurb seems more like an easter egg if anything, and the game itself doesn't look like it ends. Either way, even if this would be considered a vaultable ending, it's still wrong to publish it with a non-vault branch name. At best, it's misleading about what branches are accepted in Vault and what not.
feos wrote:
Also, #3966: Spikestuff's PSX Bishi Bashi Special "Time Trial, maximum score" in 05:13.50
FractalFusion, senior judge at the time, wrote:
If this is the fastest possible completion of the game (hardest difficulty and in-game time considered), then I think it can go into Vault.
Also, if I recall correctly, the whole "aims for maximum score" thing in that case didn't impact time.
feos wrote:
Vault doesn't care of time trial or any other goal. As long as it's the fastest, and not a newgame+ kind of run, it's vault eligible. However, #2621: Dammit's PSX Bushido Blade 2 "Slash Mode" in 04:20.23.
Vault accepts fastest runs of alternate game modes. This precedent was set when FractalFusion judged #2984: sparky's PSX Ehrgeiz: God Bless the Ring "Quest Mode, Hard" in 03:51.77, which is also why Bushido Blade 2 was accepted.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
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Mothrayas wrote:
I find it somewhat dubious. The little "copyright" blurb seems more like an easter egg if anything, and the game itself doesn't look like it ends.
"Seems like" isn't an argument. If there's a closer completion point, it must obsolete that run. If not, this one is the fastest, hence vaultable.
Mothrayas wrote:
Either way, even if this would be considered a vaultable ending, it's still wrong to publish it with a non-vault branch name. At best, it's misleading about what branches are accepted in Vault and what not.
We don't have a vault branch name, neither do we have a non-vault one, since "fastest possible" is not marked by having no branch. I can't search through the Vault movies, since the page is broken, but there definitely are runs with labels that indicate that the run does something specific, like "first enemy wave", or something of that fashion. Those runs have labels just to tell that it's not a traditional completion that would work for other games. Anyways, "game end/warp glitch" runs are still vaultable, despite of having a branch.
Mothrayas wrote:
Vault accepts fastest runs of alternate game modes.
Wiki: Vault wrote:
for games with separate, independent level sets (modes, episodes) officially available from start, each level set can have its TAS in Vault.
In BB2, the Slash mode is unlockable from the start.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Noxxa
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feos wrote:
"Seems like" isn't an argument. If there's a closer completion point, it must obsolete that run. If not, this one is the fastest, hence vaultable.
I'm not arguing that there is a closer completion point. I'm arguing that it doesn't appear like there is any.
feos wrote:
We don't have a vault branch name, neither do we have a non-vault one, since "fastest possible" is not marked by having no branch
Vault branch names certainly exist, such as "100% completion", a completely vaultable goal, or such as the examples you list below. Contradiction? And we very definitely have non-vault branch names, such as...just about any run with a branch that has goals that disqualify it for vault.
feos wrote:
I can't search through the Vault movies, since the page is broken, but there definitely are runs with labels that indicate that the run does something specific, like "first enemy wave", or something of that fashion. Those runs have labels just to tell that it's not a traditional completion that would work for other games. Anyways, "game end/warp glitch" runs are still vaultable, despite of having a branch.
Those labels indeed describe the movie, but it's clear that their goal is still to get to the completion point in the fastest time. In this case, it isn't so clear, as "fastest maximum score" is a different goal than "fastest time", and is not a vaultable goal unlike the latter.
feos wrote:
Mothrayas wrote:
Vault accepts fastest runs of alternate game modes.
Wiki: Vault wrote:
for games with separate, independent level sets (modes, episodes) officially available from start, each level set can have its TAS in Vault.
In BB2, the Slash mode is unlockable from the start.
That qualification was only added months after BB2 et al. were already published. I also don't agree about it necessarily having to be available from the start, but that's for another discussion topic.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
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Mothrayas wrote:
Vault branch names certainly exist, such as "100% completion", a completely vaultable goal, or such as the examples you list below. Contradiction? And we very definitely have non-vault branch names, such as...just about any run with a branch that has goals that disqualify it for vault.
It's not about branch names, but about what is actually going on. Newgame+ runs are disqualified not by branch name, but by the goal. Then, this run's goal is not maximum score itself, it just appears to reach some kind of an end when the max score is reached (= Bishi Bashi Special), the actual goal still being "fastest game completion". And the branch is put only for the sake of information. Probably it's not needed, but I don't see a problem with having it.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.