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This is a TAS of Doom 64 on Watch my Die (Ultra-Violence in other Doom games) in 41:22 (last input). For a competition, the fastest time of this game is 1:15:56 (on Speed Demos Archive) by peaches_ 
 Game objectives:
  • Emulator used: Mupen64-rerecording 0.5
  • Aims for a fastest time
  • Highest difficulty
  • Skipped and entered the secret maps to save the time
  • Takes damage to save the time 
 Tricks:
  • Trick 1: on Earth maps (1-8) there are some pedestals with computers, switches and so on.
If you run enough fast, you have a CHANCE (not always) to get the key without moving the pedestal down.
  • Trick 2: if you enough close to the door, but sth blocks you (wall, monster), you can open it anyway.
  • Trick 3: the is a gltich which allows you to pull down the key without going up using the scattering of the super shotgun. 
 Map by map comments and explanations:
Note: there are lots of 'Places Where You Must Kill Monsters' to go forward (PWYMKM)!
  • Map 1: simple map, no comments.
  • Map 2: this is the map where I got the blue and yellow keys earlier using trick 1. Punching imps for some entertainment (unfortunately, nowhere else in the run).
  • Map 3: entering the engineering room fastly to save the time. Took the invulnerabelty to save the health and kill cacodemons calmly. This is the first PWYMK - two cacodemons to active the lift.
  • Map 4: another PWYMKM in the start room. I didn't entered the secret stage to save the time, but this stage had a powerful gun which could help me in some places =(
  • Map 5: no comments, nice watch!
  • Map 6: killed the cacodemon to "move his clone" on lift next to it! Strange glitch! If I hadn't killed it, it will totally block the lift after I finish the case on right side of the map!
  • Map 7: that was a nice "jump" to the exit door, isn't it?
  • Map 8: in the passage with super shotgun should be nightmare imps, but they appeared after I took it. Matter of luck!
  • Map 9: killing all monsters step by step. I don't know what does the switch on the other side of the exit switch!
  • Map 10: when I entered the area with switch and teleport in the sewer, there should appear 2 barons of hell to block me! Solution: don't kill the last pinky before entering this area.
  • Map 11: there are 3 PWYMK all monsters, but I killed more in different rooms to use the switch/go forward.
  • Map 12 and secret 2: entered the secret exit to get the demon artifact to save the time: you don't have to pass all the map and the secret map is also small.
  • Map 13: the switch the small room after blue door couldn't been switched for a few seconds, so I took some rockets.
  • Map 14: a PWYMK at the start - all barons of hell. Took the BFG to save time.
  • Map 15: Another use of trick 1.
  • Map 16: Shorted the way and took mega armour.
  • Map 17: Cyberdemon took 3-4 shots from BFG anyway =(
  • Map 18: Long map, PWYMK also was.
  • Map 19: A use of trick 2 on the last door.
  • Map 20: A use of trick 3, also PWYMK.
  • Map 21: Unfortunately, trick 1 doesn't work on this stage with a key.
  • Map 22: Was a PWYMK, notheing unusual.
  • Map 23: 2 PWYMKs. There is a place where you should enter 3 key switches to open doors with switches which open the exit.
  • Map 24: My energy cells ended, so I killed 3rd cyberdemon with a rocket launcher.
  • Map 25: Nothing hard. The end! 
 Why I didn't run ahd strafe on first 7 maps??
I needed to kill monsters out of my way after shotguns reload, because most rooms are narrow and I just couldn't run past them! I could forget something! Ask in comments, please.
feos: Здесь русский дух... здесь Русью пахнет!
Hi, Dimon12321, and huge thanks for all your effort! This is a game lots of people are eager to see well TASed. And there are quite some experts that have a lot of knowledge of how it works. And it is a very complicated game. As a result, we have a game that's actually very hard to TAS up to the level that even the experts would have nothing to add, which appears to be the level of quality at TASVideos. It's pretty sane: if only people who don't know the game very well could enjoy the run, but those who are well familiar with it see many improvements, it can't be considered optimal. In many cases, it's the opposite: if tips and tricks known from the experts are applied, the run is rather optimal, even if some unaware people don't enjoy it. But with this game, all would enjoy the optimal run, maybe it would even get a Star, as the other famous FPS game TAS got.
So, I'm joining the others' desire and asking you to resume this project, applying the tricks other members posted, and posting your own works-in-progress in the Doom 64 thread. This is how our best TASes are done: make sure a segment is optimal, only then move on. It may take several months, but honestly, the longer the run is being done, the better (and the faster) it is in the end. Good luck!

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Posted: 4/7/2014 9:29 PM
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TASVideoAgent
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This topic is for the purpose of discussing #4267: Dimon12321's N64 Doom 64 in 41:22.45
Posted: 4/7/2014 9:31 PM
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Guga
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See: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6625
Posted: 4/7/2014 9:35 PM
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Noxxa
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Exotic platforms TASer of 2018 Exotic platforms TAS of 2018 Exotic platforms TASer of 2017 Exotic platforms TAS of 2017 Exotic platforms TAS of 2017 Exotic platforms TASer of 2016 Exotic platforms TAS of 2016 Gameboy TASer of 2013
Has this criticism (from above thread) been addressed?
Garrison wrote:
While the time may look impressive compared to what human play has achieved, there's some very fundamental gaps in the TASers knowledge in regards to movement speed. The way speed works in a nutshell is that there are several stacking speed modifiers that this run apparently does none of. Strafe Running with the strafe buttons is one factor, Strafe Running with use of the Strafe On button is another (this one is more tricky due to the fact that it locks you facing one direction. A major speed modifier that's actually really fundamental to Doom 64 running and sets it aside from the PC Doom games is called neutral reset. Basically you can reset the neutral position on an N64 analog stick and setting the neutral position of the stick to all the way back essentially gives the player double the run speed when moving forward. This comes at the cost of your ability to back up via analog stick and can only be achieved with the specific back button. Another thing that could potentially be optimized further is playing with a higher sensitivity to make turns quicker and get enemies out of your way faster. Enemies in general are not manipulated all that well in this TAS. It's a shame to have this TAS discovered in a "complete" state, but there's just such a large gap in understanding that someone with the knowledge could easily shave upwards of ten minutes off of this.
(emphasis mine)
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Posted: 4/8/2014 12:19 AM
(Edited: 4/8/2014 4:52 AM)
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Graviton
Joined: 11/12/2013
Posts: 17
As someone who has quite a bit of knowledge of the game and the speedrun, here is a short list of the most important TAS-only and/or real-time viable strategies that are either not utilized or under-utilized in this run: Neutral reset/Speed multipliers Resetting the control stick neutral to "down" means that when the stick is at rest, the game thinks you are holding up. When you then hold up on the stick, the game reads this as "even more up" and you move significantly faster. Also, the use of toggle strafe in conjunction with running at an angle (strafe-running) to increase speed is lacking in this TAS. I would estimate that upwards of five minutes, if not more, are lost by not using both of these tricks to their fullest extent. It should be noted as well that the TAS appears to not adjust the control sensitivity in any way, severely hindering the ability to turn quickly around corners. This is a significant source of time that is bled throughout the run. Advanced enemy manipulation Enemies, when manipulated properly, can open doors and lower certain elevators, eliminating the need to activate them yourself. There doesn't appear to be any purposeful use of this in the run. Spawn prevention Standing over the spawn point of certain enemies can prevent them from spawning. Manipulating enemies to walk over another enemy spawn point can also prevent a spawn. This is particularly useful for preventing the spawn of very strong enemies that require a nontrivial amount of time to kill. Multiple trigger skips This game has a prolific use of movement based triggers that spawn enemies, raise and lower floors, and many other things. The best use of skipping these triggers is to prevent the spawn of enemies that get in your way, which can be done on several levels. The TAS makes use of this only once as far as I can tell. Damage range manipulation The nature of weapons in this game is such that damage is dealt on a range from a minimum to a maximum value every shot. This means that enemies that usually take three rockets can take two rockets if you are lucky, or 4 rockets if you are unlucky. This applies to a majority of the enemies in the game, and the TAS fails to manipulate the randomness to ensure enemies are always killed with the least amount of ammo (and in turn shortest amount of time) whenever possible. Proper BFG usage The TAS does not utilize the BFG to its fullest potential, often using several more shots than optimal for cyberdemons. If a TAS manipulates the BFG to output its maximum or near maximum damage output, cyberdemons should never take more than two BFG shots to kill. ----------------------------- Along with these, there are several instances of poor routing or time wasted killing enemies that can easily be ran past. Most instances of these sub-optimal routing decisions appear to be a result of them be done in prior real-time speedruns, as I assume these were used as a reference in the making of this TAS. Many of these routes have since been obsoleted. Also, general ammo management leaves much to be desired. I am glad that this game has started to receive attention from people, but as of now there is still so much that needs to be improved. I look forward to seeing any improvements and would gladly volunteer my time and knowledge to helping anyone (including Dimon) who wishes to make a more optimal TAS for this amazing game.
Posted: 4/8/2014 4:33 AM
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ars4326
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I voted 'no' after watching your submission and considering the detailed suggestions given by other members. I agree with them in that, while your run is superior to human RTAs, there are still many obvious improvements that can still be made. I hope this doesn't discourage you. If taken constructively, this can definitely make you a better TASer; and I would certainly look forward to seeing an updated submission from you in the future!
"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." - 1 Corinthians 2:9
Posted: 4/8/2014 4:41 AM
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Patashu
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With the high level of competition in Doom and other FPS speedruns, I'd love to see Doom 64 also get pushed to its limit in a TAS :D
My Chiptune music, made in Famitracker: http://soundcloud.com/patashu My twitch. I stream mostly shmups & rhythm games http://twitch.tv/patashu My youtube, again shmups and rhythm games and misc stuff: http://youtube.com/user/patashu
Posted: 4/8/2014 4:47 AM
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Warepire
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For reasons stated by Garrison and Graviton I also voted no. But PLEASE try again, Doom 64 is a really entertaining game to watch.
Posted: 4/8/2014 4:54 AM
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Patashu
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^ This for sure. Doom 64 is awesome and I love watching it get speedran :D
My Chiptune music, made in Famitracker: http://soundcloud.com/patashu My twitch. I stream mostly shmups & rhythm games http://twitch.tv/patashu My youtube, again shmups and rhythm games and misc stuff: http://youtube.com/user/patashu
Posted: 4/8/2014 5:27 AM
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Aqfaq
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This is not bad by any means. Tasvideos standard is just so damn high. Voting yes for the effort and for the ambitious first submission! Doom! <3
Posted: 4/8/2014 5:50 AM
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Dimon12321
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Aqfaq wrote:
This is not bad by any means. Tasvideos standard is just so damn high. Voting yes for the effort and for the ambitious first submission! Doom! <3
Thank you for understanding! For newbie like me, this movie is awesome! I TASed a big game for the first time. I expected that tasvideos accepts all games that aren't TASed to give people more fun, according to what TAS is difficult to make, like this.
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
Posted: 4/8/2014 6:39 AM
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Garrison
Joined: 3/8/2014
Posts: 36
I just wanted to post in here as I didn't know this run would be submitted. Everything in my other post I stand by, however, discouragement is the last thing that I intend to do. As someone who is primarily a realtime runner and a partial dabbler in TASing, I can appreciate what was done. My main intention isn't to say "This run is shit, it could have done X" its more to the terms of "Here is X mechanic, providing even more opportunities for improvement." As a person with pre-existing biases, I will abstain from voting.
Posted: 4/8/2014 7:00 AM
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Dimon12321
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Graviton wrote:
As someone who has quite a bit of knowledge of the game and the speedrun, here is a short list of the most important TAS-only and/or real-time viable strategies that are either not utilized or under-utilized in this run: Neutral reset/Speed multipliers Resetting the control stick neutral to "down" means that when the stick is at rest, the game thinks you are holding up. When you then hold up on the stick, the game reads this as "even more up" and you move significantly faster. Also, the use of toggle strafe in conjunction with running at an angle (strafe-running) to increase speed is lacking in this TAS. I would estimate that upwards of five minutes, if not more, are lost by not using both of these tricks to their fullest extent. It should be noted as well that the TAS appears to not adjust the control sensitivity in any way, severely hindering the ability to turn quickly around corners. This is a significant source of time that is bled throughout the run. Advanced enemy manipulation Enemies, when manipulated properly, can open doors and lower certain elevators, eliminating the need to activate them yourself. There doesn't appear to be any purposeful use of this in the run. Spawn prevention Standing over the spawn point of certain enemies can prevent them from spawning. Manipulating enemies to walk over another enemy spawn point can also prevent a spawn. This is particularly useful for preventing the spawn of very strong enemies that require a nontrivial amount of time to kill. Multiple trigger skips This game has a prolific use of movement based triggers that spawn enemies, raise and lower floors, and many other things. The best use of skipping these triggers is to prevent the spawn of enemies that get in your way, which can be done on several levels. The TAS makes use of this only once as far as I can tell. Damage range manipulation The nature of weapons in this game is such that damage is dealt on a range from a minimum to a maximum value every shot. This means that enemies that usually take three rockets can take two rockets if you are lucky, or 4 rockets if you are unlucky. This applies to a majority of the enemies in the game, and the TAS fails to manipulate the randomness to ensure enemies are always killed with the least amount of ammo (and in turn shortest amount of time) whenever possible. Proper BFG usage The TAS does not utilize the BFG to its fullest potential, often using several more shots than optimal for cyberdemons. If a TAS manipulates the BFG to output its maximum or near maximum damage output, cyberdemons should never take more than two BFG shots to kill. ----------------------------- Along with these, there are several instances of poor routing or time wasted killing enemies that can easily be ran past. Most instances of these sub-optimal routing decisions appear to be a result of them be done in prior real-time speedruns, as I assume these were used as a reference in the making of this TAS. Many of these routes have since been obsoleted. Also, general ammo management leaves much to be desired. I am glad that this game has started to receive attention from people, but as of now there is still so much that needs to be improved. I look forward to seeing any improvements and would gladly volunteer my time and knowledge to helping anyone (including Dimon) who wishes to make a more optimal TAS for this amazing game.
Knowing all this, you could actually TAS this game a big time before I did! There are some videos about Doom 64 on your YouTube channel: I'm sure you TASed that part of the levels. My run is awesome anyway! Advanced enemy manipulation: show me an example of this! I knew that it is, but making this for saving time is vacancy! With the rest I'm unfortunately agreed =( Damn, I know how BFG works and how manipulate the high damage, but the enemies were so strong anyway!
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
Posted: 4/8/2014 7:11 AM
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RGamma
Joined: 2/3/2013
Posts: 320
Location: Germany
Dimon12321 wrote:
... I expected that tasvideos accepts all games that aren't TASed to give people more fun, according to what TAS is difficult to make, like this.
This is not true. If a movie is known to be clearly suboptimal (at least for speed goals) it is not accepted even if there isn't a TAS for that game published already (the more complex a game, the more lenient this rule is abided by). See the movie rules: http://tasvideos.org/MovieRules.html#MovieSTechnicalQualityMustBeAcceptable
All syllogisms have three parts, therefore this is not a syllogism.
Posted: 4/8/2014 7:51 AM
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yep2yel
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Joined: 3/2/2014
Posts: 71
Location: Colorado, USA
I've never played this version of Doom, and I'm not a Doom runner, so I don't know where all of the secrets are, but from looking at the first few stages, I can see it at least needs to be cleaned up a bit. Trying to look at this from the point of few of a casual watcher and not a TASer looking for perfection, I can see enemies that didn't need to be killed, a little better route management, and certainly the sensitivity could be heightened, as stated. Overall, it's not a bad run AT ALL. It certainly looks like it would be very hard to recreate in RT. But, it really just gives off the feel of a runner who had some help. So, because it looks and feels better than a speedrun, and it's the first Doom 64 run here, I give a meh vote and say it should be published, but expect it to be obsoleted within a day, if even that.
No game is perfect, Everything can be broken. - Whoever was on the couch with dwangoAC and Weatherton at AGDQ 2014.
Posted: 4/8/2014 7:56 AM
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thatguy
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Joined: 11/3/2013
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^ I've not seen it, but that's the most telling comment yet. Being noticeably suboptimal to a real-time runner is one thing. Being noticeably suboptimal to the average TASvideos member is quite another. By the way, people, you can still vote that you found a submission entertaining, even if you don't think it should be published.
Posted: 4/8/2014 9:31 AM
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Aqfaq
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Joined: 4/8/2005
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Sega TASer of 2008 Lucky TAS of 2008
yep2yel wrote:
...expect it to be obsoleted within a day, if even that.
I think the number of people who have the time/motivation/skill to obsolete this run is actually very low. Well, if we gave any experienced taser a full day to work, he could obsolete almost any TAS by one frame. But even if you gave me a thousand hours, I might still be struggling to finish a run for Doom (on any system). The game is a billion-headed beast of randomness, which frightens me a lot.
Posted: 4/8/2014 9:37 AM
Post subject: Re: #4267: Dimon12321's N64 Doom 64 in 41:22.45
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Aqfaq
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Dimon12321 wrote:
If you run enough fast, you have a CHANCE (not always) to get the key without moving the pedestal down.
Actually, this can be done consistently every time, but it requires precise player coordinates.
Posted: 4/8/2014 9:57 AM
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AzumaK
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I haven't watched the run yet, but I'm quite certain I'll be very entertained, and likely keep in on my media box for a long time. However... I can't see it going to anywhere but gruefood. It simply doesn't have the refinement for the vault, but is an excellent effort nonetheless. However, there is that one issue... games like Doom 64, Super Mario Kart, F-Zero have insanely high thresholds for perfect (or even 'acceptable') runs, and as such, these games never end up getting completed or accepted. I wish there was a solution to this, but there isn't a simple one. I'd like gruefood submissions to be a little more visible, and more submissions go to it... but I've been a fan for 10+ years, not really an issue for me if a run I like isn't published, I'll keep it somehow, heh. Anyhow... I look forward to watching it soon! Great effort, and I'm sure if you guys put your heads together, you could put together a worthy run given some time!
Currently obsessed with: Mega Man 2 hacks, SFA3, Super Metroid Zero Mission, MM8BDM (Skulltag MegaMan mod, it's amazing!)
Posted: 4/8/2014 10:52 AM
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Dimon12321
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AzumaK wrote:
I haven't watched the run yet, but I'm quite certain I'll be very entertained, and likely keep in on my media box for a long time. However... I can't see it going to anywhere but gruefood. It simply doesn't have the refinement for the vault, but is an excellent effort nonetheless. However, there is that one issue... games like Doom 64, Super Mario Kart, F-Zero have insanely high thresholds for perfect (or even 'acceptable') runs, and as such, these games never end up getting completed or accepted. I wish there was a solution to this, but there isn't a simple one. I'd like gruefood submissions to be a little more visible, and more submissions go to it... but I've been a fan for 10+ years, not really an issue for me if a run I like isn't published, I'll keep it somehow, heh. Anyhow... I look forward to watching it soon! Great effort, and I'm sure if you guys put your heads together, you could put together a worthy run given some time!
Agreed! Probably I played hard for the first time. Thank you!
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
Posted: 4/8/2014 10:58 AM
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Dimon12321
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Warepire wrote:
For reasons stated by Garrison and Graviton I also voted no. But PLEASE try again, Doom 64 is a really entertaining game to watch.
I have bad feeling about the run... I'm a little depressed now! Why did you vote no? The movie isn't entertaining =)!?? If my inspiration comes back to me, I'll try again. Bring It On diffic. goes??
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
Posted: 4/8/2014 11:05 AM
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Dimon12321
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Aqfaq wrote:
yep2yel wrote:
...expect it to be obsoleted within a day, if even that.
I think the number of people who have the time/motivation/skill to obsolete this run is actually very low. Well, if we gave any experienced taser a full day to work, he could obsolete almost any TAS by one frame. But even if you gave me a thousand hours, I might still be struggling to finish a run for Doom (on any system). The game is a billion-headed beast of randomness, which frightens me a lot.
MTA is a great Doom 64 TASer, but he gave up on the last yeah and I think he will TAS Zelda only. Graviton has a skill too, but he just offered to teach me. Thats all! I'll try to TAS the game on Bring It On if my inspiration comes to me back!
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
Posted: 4/8/2014 11:07 AM
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Patashu
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Dimon12321 wrote:
Warepire wrote:
For reasons stated by Garrison and Graviton I also voted no. But PLEASE try again, Doom 64 is a really entertaining game to watch.
I have bad feeling about the run... I'm a little depressed now! Why did you vote no? The movie isn't entertaining =)!?? If my inspiration comes back to me, I'll try again. Bring It On diffic. goes??
Keep in mind that Garrison and Graviton are REALLY eager to see an awesome Doom 64 TAS. In fact, we all are! So here's what you should do 1) Play with all the glitches and speedrunning tricks you haven't tried out yet 2) Make a WIP of the first level, make an unlisted youtube encode of it, post both on the Doom 64 thread on tasvideos 3) Garrison, Graviton, etc will let you know if you missed any optimizations, and then you can fix them and be satisfied with the knowledge that your run of that level has no known errors left (It's a great feeling :) ). Proceed to the next stage, etc. How does that sound? BTW, the TAS should either be on the hardest difficulty or easiest difficulty.
My Chiptune music, made in Famitracker: http://soundcloud.com/patashu My twitch. I stream mostly shmups & rhythm games http://twitch.tv/patashu My youtube, again shmups and rhythm games and misc stuff: http://youtube.com/user/patashu
Posted: 4/8/2014 11:13 AM
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Warp
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ars4326 wrote:
human RTAs
Now I'm left wondering what "RTA" stands for...
Posted: 4/8/2014 11:28 AM
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Patashu
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Warp wrote:
ars4326 wrote:
human RTAs
Now I'm left wondering what "RTA" stands for...
Real Time Attack, as in, the run was timed in how much real time it took from start to finish non-TAS.
My Chiptune music, made in Famitracker: http://soundcloud.com/patashu My twitch. I stream mostly shmups & rhythm games http://twitch.tv/patashu My youtube, again shmups and rhythm games and misc stuff: http://youtube.com/user/patashu
Posted: 4/8/2014 3:43 PM
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Dimon12321
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Patashu wrote:
Dimon12321 wrote:
Warepire wrote:
For reasons stated by Garrison and Graviton I also voted no. But PLEASE try again, Doom 64 is a really entertaining game to watch.
I have bad feeling about the run... I'm a little depressed now! Why did you vote no? The movie isn't entertaining =)!?? If my inspiration comes back to me, I'll try again. Bring It On diffic. goes??
Keep in mind that Garrison and Graviton are REALLY eager to see an awesome Doom 64 TAS. In fact, we all are! So here's what you should do 1) Play with all the glitches and speedrunning tricks you haven't tried out yet 2) Make a WIP of the first level, make an unlisted youtube encode of it, post both on the Doom 64 thread on tasvideos 3) Garrison, Graviton, etc will let you know if you missed any optimizations, and then you can fix them and be satisfied with the knowledge that your run of that level has no known errors left (It's a great feeling :) ). Proceed to the next stage, etc. How does that sound? BTW, the TAS should either be on the hardest difficulty or easiest difficulty.
AAAARRRRRHHHHHH!!!!!! "It's a great feeling"... Come on! TAS all the game with that feeling and I with pleasure give a like to your published video! I'll try sth, but only on Be Gentle!, because you hadn't seen my die though I made it in one of my WIPs (old) =): Link to video
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
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