Post by Cooljay

Posted: 9/5/2012 4:30 AM

Post subject: Jelly Boy

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Exonym

Editor, Experienced player (943)

Joined: 7/20/2011
Posts: 345

Since there was no topic for this, and I had a WIP from earlier, I figured I'd create one for the heck of it. My WIP included the first 3 levels, but I know it has flaws. My main concern with this game is that it doesn't look very TAS'y on playback, and the game is realllyyyy long (6 worlds, 8 levels per world). Considering thats 48 levels, and the first three levels took 3:47.00 (so far), and not including any of the 6 bosses yet, I'd say the final TAS would probably be over an hour... Here's what I noticed wrong with my test so far: - In the second level, there is a message that plays "collecting oranges gives you extra time" or something. You can skip this by constantly jumping throughout the stage, but that causes some slowdowns in order to make clean jumps in certain parts. I haven't tested if just allowing the message to play so I don't have to jump constantly is actually faster. It most likely is, because it would allow me to collect less oranges (they add time and that adds to the tally at the end of the level) and fruit (also adds tally). I collected too many fruit here. - In the third level the enemies are in awkward positions, especially during the ball transformation section. - I'm not sure why, but you cant punch (it's his stomach, I hope) when falling from a certain height. This means I have to jump to grab the ball powerup, which looks ridiculous for a TAS. The third level also displays a message in which I constantly jump to avoid. It says "collecting pears renders you invincible for a short time" or something to that affect. - I wish there was a way to hammer blocks faster or just skip the parts altogether in the first stage. I haven't messed around with it too much, but I don't think it's possible to skip those parts. If you spot anything else let me know, as I'm messing around with about 5 games right now and will hopefully finish something this year. :P Okay, enough ranting here's the file (I think E is the only version of this game) Jelly Boy (E) Snes 9x v1.52 http://www.mediafire.com/?y2m3p5xxsjnsie2 Edit: I just realized I didn't get the puzzle piece in the third level -.-

Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.

Posted: 9/8/2012 11:45 AM

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arflech

He/Him

Joined: 5/3/2008
Posts: 1120

At first i thought the (U) version was called "Smart Ball" but then I saw that that's a different game; the (J) original of Smart Ball was "Jerry Boy" and its unfinished sequel would have been "Jelly Boy 2" so that's where the confusion came in.

i imgur com/QiCaaH8 png

Posted: 4/3/2014 2:34 AM

Post subject: Jelly Boy 1 or 2

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dekutony

Experienced player (691)

Joined: 11/23/2013
Posts: 2239
Location: Guatemala

What such a weird game for TAS... Its very long, and it uses only passwords. Someone could find such a weird game for a weird run. What do you think?

Here, my YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/dekutony

Posted: 2/24/2015 12:52 AM

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Exonym

Editor, Experienced player (943)

Joined: 7/20/2011
Posts: 345

Here's another post out of boredom. I found a way to skip getting the hammer in the first level and go right to the puzzle piece too:

That being said this is still a vault game but figured I'd post it anyway.

Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.

Posted: 1/9/2023 7:18 PM
(Edited: 1/9/2023 7:21 PM)

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Denial140

Player (233)

Joined: 8/18/2013
Posts: 146
Location: location, location!

Just found out that this game already has a thread, so I figured I may as well post my WIP here for the sake of keeping things in one place: WIP 1 (Level 1-1) Exonym, I tried playing your WIP on snes9x 1.52 but with default settings it desynced on the second jump. Do you (or anyone else) have some advice for settings? The other thing of note is that it's possible to skip the first hammer in 1-1 without clipping in, simply by picking up the balloon from further on (the hitbox behind jelly is quite large when attacking, for some reason). The clip itself might be useful in other places, and it possibly allows less of the slow balloon movement in that particular spot too - will test.

Current TAS: [SNES] Jelly Boy [NES] Street Fighter 2010

Posted: 1/9/2023 8:20 PM

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Exonym

Editor, Experienced player (943)

Joined: 7/20/2011
Posts: 345

Denial140 wrote:

Just found out that this game already has a thread, so I figured I may as well post my WIP here for the sake of keeping things in one place: WIP 1 (Level 1-1)

Your WIP looks pretty good from a glance. I don't recall too much about my attempt, but I didn't spend very long researching it. I don't think there's anything in my WIP that would stand out but I can still try to pull it up if you wanted to look. The balloon into the blocks thing was me trying to get a zip going, but unfortunately zipping did not happen. It still resulted in getting to the puzzle piece and maybe it's useful to get in terrain somewhere else like this. One thing I do remember is that jumping cancels the text which makes stage 2 and similar stages very annoying (if that proves to be faster). This is a very long and weird game that didn't hold my interest very long, but it is the source of my profile pic, so I have to be involved in some way huh. BTW the ROM cheksum is: crc32=F8C72A24 If you still have the same cheksum and it doesn't work, then I don't know. I just tried and it plays fine for me. I could maybe make an encode for you if you really want but it would take a while to upload. Also, looking at it again it's verryyyy suboptimal. It doesn't even have the hammer skip in stage 1 for example.

Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.

Posted: 1/9/2023 9:02 PM

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Darkman425

He/They

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Joined: 9/19/2021
Posts: 263
Location: Texas

I had to re-verify some tech with playing the game again. The puzzle pieces count as collected even if you die in a stage. This means both potential to make the dead end stages faster by getting the collectables then dying rather than finishing the stages, and the possible problem of routing out where to get extra lives to burn to end stages faster. I haven't seen this mentioned here so I don't know if that was common knowledge or not. There's also the factor of each world having a key but the last one is unnecessary since they're only used for unlocking worlds, from what I remember.

Switch friend code: SW-2632-3851-3712

Posted: 1/9/2023 10:15 PM

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Denial140

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Joined: 8/18/2013
Posts: 146
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Darkman425 wrote:

This means both potential to make the dead end stages faster by getting the collectables then dying rather than finishing the stages, and the possible problem of routing out where to get extra lives to burn to end stages faster. I haven't seen this mentioned here so I don't know if that was common knowledge or not.

I think was done in the one RTA run I managed to find (which was submitted on speedrun.com iirc)

Current TAS: [SNES] Jelly Boy [NES] Street Fighter 2010

Posted: 1/9/2023 10:42 PM

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Exonym

Editor, Experienced player (943)

Joined: 7/20/2011
Posts: 345

Well while playing the game just now in real time I discovered something kinda interesting. You can clip through any floor with the balloon simply by firing it's projectiles just as you're about to land on the ground. This works with solid blocks as well as semisolids. Now I have only seen the game ever try to push you left out of solid blocks so I'm not sure anywhere it will be useful but definitely something to keep in mind: Link to video Also for the heck of it I have made a watch file that contains the absolute basics of x and y speed, and their corresponding positions. The speed values do not take into account external forces on your speed such as conveyor belts (which move you at 4pixels/frame, double your normal walking speed). You can find that here if you want: User movie #638089006617572625

Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.

Posted: 1/9/2023 11:17 PM

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TheAmazingYucemu

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Joined: 4/1/2022
Posts: 122

Exonym wrote:

Well while playing the game just now in real time I discovered something kinda interesting. You can clip through any floor with the balloon simply by firing it's projectiles just as you're about to land on the ground. This works with solid blocks as well as semisolids. Now I have only seen the game ever try to push you left out of solid blocks so I'm not sure anywhere it will be useful but definitely something to keep in mind: Link to video Also for the heck of it I have made a watch file that contains the absolute basics of x and y speed, and their corresponding positions. The speed values do not take into account external forces on your speed such as conveyor belts (which move you at 4pixels/frame, double your normal walking speed). You can find that here if you want: User movie #638089006617572625

I wonder if it's possible to console verify this using NSO SNES collection via arduino uno r3, javmarina's Nintendo-Switch-Remote-Control and monsterdruide1's TAS-editor, i might try out very soon

WIP

Posted: 1/10/2023 1:16 AM

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Denial140

Player (233)

Joined: 8/18/2013
Posts: 146
Location: location, location!

Exonym wrote:

Well while playing the game just now in real time I discovered something kinda interesting. You can clip through any floor with the balloon simply by firing it's projectiles just as you're about to land on the ground. This works with solid blocks as well as semisolids. Now I have only seen the game ever try to push you left out of solid blocks so I'm not sure anywhere it will be useful but definitely something to keep in mind

Very nice find! I managed to clip into the platform with the hammer blocks using this, so we can get rid of the balloon much earlier. Looks to save around a second.

Current TAS: [SNES] Jelly Boy [NES] Street Fighter 2010

Posted: 4/2/2023 5:43 PM

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Denial140

Player (233)

Joined: 8/18/2013
Posts: 146
Location: location, location!

Here is WIP 2, completing world 1. I have discovered that this game has walljumps in a similar style to many old games, but not so widely applicable as many of the walls are not made up of individual blocks. I think the only other things to mention is that finishing a level on the ground allows you to jump on the first frame of the next level, made great use of in The Darkroom and Bossy, and when in the ball transformation, holding B after rolling off a ledge will suspend you in midair for a short time. This allowed me to get underneath the pesky aeroplane enemy at the end of Drum Solo. I have encoded it on youtube, since the embed in the userfile seems to be failing for me.

Current TAS: [SNES] Jelly Boy [NES] Street Fighter 2010

Posted: 4/2/2023 6:05 PM

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Challenger

He/Him

Skilled player (1702)

Joined: 2/23/2016
Posts: 1065

Great WIP. I'm surprised to see a walljump trick in this game. The routing looks great too. Keep it up.

My homepage --Currently not much motived for TASing as before...-- But I'm still working.

Posted: 4/2/2023 10:11 PM

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Denial140

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Joined: 8/18/2013
Posts: 146
Location: location, location!

Challenger wrote:

Great WIP. I'm surprised to see a walljump trick in this game. The routing looks great too. Keep it up.

Thank you! Progress might be slow until the summer because I have exams coming up, but hopefully the work will pick up afterwards. The walljumps come from more of the hitbox being behind Jelly Boy's position than in front, so turning around near a wall can put some of the hitbox inside it. This varies by transformation - with no powerup this is quite strict. I think Jelly Boy's distance to the wall has to be even, and with 2 speed towards it. By contrast, the lightbulb transformation (where I originally discovered the walljumps) seems much more lenient, and in fact you can chain them entirely vertically as in the Darkroom - I guess it has a less symmetric hitbox.

Current TAS: [SNES] Jelly Boy [NES] Street Fighter 2010

Posted: 4/3/2023 4:42 PM

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Challenger

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Skilled player (1702)

Joined: 2/23/2016
Posts: 1065

While playing this game, I discovered an interesting trick: if you pause the game on the same frame Jelly Boy collects a puzzle piece, the collected puzzle piece text can be closed as soon as you unpause the game and press a button. If you return to a finished stage, this trick also allows start+select command usage. This can be useful for Mini Maze stage of world 1, for instance.

My homepage --Currently not much motived for TASing as before...-- But I'm still working.

Posted: 4/6/2023 1:58 PM
(Edited: 4/7/2023 3:18 PM)

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Denial140

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Joined: 8/18/2013
Posts: 146
Location: location, location!

Challenger wrote:

If you return to a finished stage, this trick also allows start+select command usage. This can be useful for Mini Maze stage of world 1, for instance.

I just realised this and came to post about this! Moving the puzzle piece section of Mini Maze after the Darkroom allows the jump at the beginning of the Darkroom and also the exit after the puzzle piece. Of course, this also saves us from collecting a life somewhere. But I hadn't realised that it also skips the textbox in other stages - this seems to work on the ones that pop up with advice about the game too. Unfortunately pausing and unpausing takes too long to make the faster ending to Barmy Army quicker overall, but e.g. on the one in the first stage it saves 21 frames. Thank you very much for pointing this out! Edit: This and many other (mainly small) improvements here.

Current TAS: [SNES] Jelly Boy [NES] Street Fighter 2010

Posted: 4/12/2023 5:24 PM

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Challenger

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Skilled player (1702)

Joined: 2/23/2016
Posts: 1065

Link to video Link to video Link to video Some interesting stuff I've discovered for three stages of world 3, including two new tricks.

My homepage --Currently not much motived for TASing as before...-- But I'm still working.

Posted: 4/15/2023 12:14 PM

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Denial140

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Joined: 8/18/2013
Posts: 146
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Very nice work - it's good to see that cancelling the mini transformation can be used somewhere. Before walljumping was discovered, I had found you can get pushed into a wall in mini maze where the final mini transformation is, but in that case it was useless since there was no other platform to jump off.

Current TAS: [SNES] Jelly Boy [NES] Street Fighter 2010

Posted: 5/12/2023 1:14 AM

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Denial140

Player (233)

Joined: 8/18/2013
Posts: 146
Location: location, location!

I discovered some weird behaviour in the physics engine - during an attack while on a slope, the speed limit increases by a fixed amount (I think depending on the steepness of the slope) every frame, so you can gain (in theory) unbounded speed with this, given an unbounded length attack. For the regular punch, the attack is too short so that this loses time even on the shortest slopes unless the punch hits something, which extends the attack by a few frames. For the blowtorch, the attack is essentially unbounded in length, and this has a very nice application at the end of Brass Monkeys in world 2.

Current TAS: [SNES] Jelly Boy [NES] Street Fighter 2010

Posted: 7/18/2023 6:31 PM
(Edited: 7/18/2023 6:42 PM)

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Exonym

Editor, Experienced player (943)

Joined: 7/20/2011
Posts: 345

Speaking of getting pushed into walls, you can do it with pretty much any transformation. However since the game seems to push you to the left a lot, I have only found it possible to the left. If only the game would ever push you to the right it would be way more useful...... Link to video I knew it was possible with the balloon from testing, but I don't know if it was known you can do this with any powerup. Here's what you do, get a jump height that maxes your y-speed at 5. Find a variation of the jump height that would embed you the furthest in the ground upon landing. Use X to cancel your powerup the moment you reach that furthest y position. This enters the zip mode where the game pushes you left. Eventually it will push you back up once the un-transformation animation finishes, but you can use it to at least push yourself through small sections of wall. Not sure if this was known beforehand or not, or if it will be useful in many places but figured I'd document it anyway.

Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.

Posted: 7/18/2023 7:02 PM

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Denial140

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Joined: 8/18/2013
Posts: 146
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Thanks! Nice find - I hadn't discovered this yet. This allows skipping the wallclimber for the puzzle piece in mini maze and saves around 250f. Will look into other uses, this was just the first thing that came to mind.

Current TAS: [SNES] Jelly Boy [NES] Street Fighter 2010

Posted: 7/18/2023 8:27 PM
(Edited: 7/18/2023 8:44 PM)

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Exonym

Editor, Experienced player (943)

Joined: 7/20/2011
Posts: 345

I got around to watching your WIP, and it's looking pretty good so far. I noticed a couple things though Link to video Here, if you turn around just as you reach the ledge you can land on ledges you couldnt normally land on. This works for any ledge, and I guess it's more of that backwards hitbox jank. I noticed this because you jumped down and had to let go of right for a bit. This seems to save a few frames anyway. Second, in Marble Alley, one of the later slopes can be jumped off of like 2 frames later to preserve more momentum. In your posted WIP it occurs at frame ~6188. [edit] I'm dumb and forgot the extra orange collected adds to tally at end of the level. I never really did any analysis on this, does 1 extra orange cause the tally to negate this improvement? That's all I noticed from just glancing at it, it's a solid WIP, and will be even better once implementing the aforementioned text skips. Looking forward to more WIPs [edit] is this game sync friendly at all? I never got around to testing that. I would assume it's not

Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.

Posted: 7/18/2023 9:01 PM

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Denial140

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Joined: 8/18/2013
Posts: 146
Location: location, location!

Exonym wrote:

Here, if you turn around just as you reach the ledge you can land on ledges you couldnt normally land on. This works for any ledge, and I guess it's more of that backwards hitbox jank. I noticed this because you jumped down and had to let go of right for a bit. This seems to save a few frames anyway. Second, in Marble Alley, one of the later slopes can be jumped off of like 2 frames later to preserve more momentum. In your posted WIP it occurs at frame ~6188. [edit] I'm dumb and forgot the extra orange collected adds to tally at end of the level. I never really did any analysis on this, does 1 extra orange cause the tally to negate this improvement? [edit] is this game sync friendly at all? I never got around to testing that. I would assume it's not

I have been using the turnaround landing and Challenger's floaty landing from the World 3 videos, but evidently I never clocked rewatched far enough back to realise they could be used in Drum Solo too :) The most striking use I've found for them is Cloud Eight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3R1OGUcdqDU Indeed the extra orange loses 5 frames from the extra 5 time, and jumping later only gains 2 frames. Either way, Marble Alley has seen quite a rework since the second WIP - I'm hoping to have one out soon covering the first two worlds. I've also LOTADed the rest of the game to get a feel for which lives to pick up, so hopefully it will be a bit faster from here on out. On the whole the game syncs just fine - the loads sometimes vary by a couple of frames, but within levels it syncs provided you were on the ground at the end of the previous level if you need the jump. Bosses are a bit of a different matter, because the bosses besides world 1 seem to be some of the few things that actually use the RNG - the only other thing I can think of are the chimneys in the bottom half of Cloud Eight, but this is not a problem as in the above video. The bosses are annoyingly also quite hard to optimise, and the world 2 boss is the one thing holding me back from WIP 3 before this new clipping into the floor trick to play around with :) But perhaps if I post my best attempt someone will spot some improvements to it.

Current TAS: [SNES] Jelly Boy [NES] Street Fighter 2010

Posted: 7/19/2023 1:01 PM

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Denial140

Player (233)

Joined: 8/18/2013
Posts: 146
Location: location, location!

I uploaded a new WIP containing worlds 1 and 2: Link to video Comments appreciated :)

Current TAS: [SNES] Jelly Boy [NES] Street Fighter 2010

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