According to this and this, the Master Ball never fails; the game skips the whole catch rate formula if one is used.
It is also possible to guarantee a 100% catch rate with other Poke Balls in the right conditions; for example, a regular Poke Ball used on a Pidgey with 1/3 or lower HP left will always work (in RBY only).
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4090
Location: The Netherlands
That's hilarious.
It's interesting to see that kind of payload being possible using just box data - it seems like that would require a lot of variable manipulation for each mon in the box.
Now that arbitrary code execution is possible in real time in RBY, I wonder what kind of payloads people can come up with...
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
What route changes would be made in a new no-glitches-warps run? It's possible to skip Brock and the existing NGW run was made before discovering that trick.
There's also the discovery that it's possible to save and regain menu control during the first stage of Trainer-Fly by going to a PC. It's possible to skip 2 mandatory battles and the optional battle in Mount Moon instead of catching Gyarados in Mount Moon - it's not possible to do both. It could also be used to skip 2 mandatory battles on Route 6, but this involves backtracking to Cerulean and may be slower than just fighting. A route that skips the Mount Moon fights would certainly want to pick up Mega Punch and teach it to Charmander for a faster Rival fight.
If we skip grabbing a Gyarados in Mount Moon, that means only performing the trainer-fly glitch to get a level 100 Mew, or possibly a different Pokémon. Mew is a great choice because it can learn Fly, Take Down, and any other moves we want. If we catch a Mew in the same place, I believe there are no route changes after that point, but the run will already be several minutes ahead. A strong non-Mew candidate would be any non-poison type that can go from level 1 to 100, preferably one that can learn Fly and Take Down. I'm open to suggestion, but I suspect Mew will still be the best main battle mon for a new run.
Are there any route changes for a non-glitch-warped run that I missed? I have to admit I'm curious how much time can be gained now that we can skip Brock and use trainer-fly to get past certain fights.
It sounds to me that your proposed route is just MrWint's transform glitch route up to Cerulean City and the current low-glitch route thereafter.
I don't think that there are any other areas where the save-at-the-PC exploit would be useful, as the other areas which have large numbers of mandatory trainers are sequence-broken past anyway. I think it would take too long to trainer-PC (that's what I'm calling it anyway) the two Route 6 trainers: since you will have a level-100 Mew by that point the battles won't take long at all.
Actually, there is one other place I have thought of where Trainer-PC may be worth it, it depends on the effect saving/resetting after a Trainer-Fly has been set up has on Snorlax...
My idea is to first acquire the Bike Voucher, then to Trainer-Fly (by Abra's Teleport) off the first Trainer in Route 11 (having set the warp point to Cerulean, where it would naturally be anyway at that point in the route), and save/reset. That way you can pick up the Bicycle and cycle back to Vermilion to progress, whereas otherwise you'd have to walk (because you couldn't access the menu). You also skip the Trainer-Fly "wild" encounter you'd normally get to unlock the menu again, and the otherwise mandatory fight versus the Gambler just before the gate to Route 12. Of course none of this works if save/resetting to deactivate a Trainer-Fly doesn't remove Snorlax.
EDIT: Oh derp, much more obviously than all that, it may well save time on Route 25.
Actually, there is one other place I have thought of where Trainer-PC may be worth it, it depends on the effect saving/resetting after a Trainer-Fly has been set up has on Snorlax...
My idea is to first acquire the Bike Voucher, then to Trainer-Fly (by Abra's Teleport) off the first Trainer in Route 11 (having set the warp point to Cerulean, where it would naturally be anyway at that point in the route), and save/reset. That way you can pick up the Bicycle and cycle back to Vermilion to progress, whereas otherwise you'd have to walk (because you couldn't access the menu). You also skip the Trainer-Fly "wild" encounter you'd normally get to unlock the menu again, and the otherwise mandatory fight versus the Gambler just before the gate to Route 12. Of course none of this works if save/resetting to deactivate a Trainer-Fly doesn't remove Snorlax.
EDIT: Oh derp, much more obviously than all that, it may well save time on Route 25.
Yeah, you need to pay Snorlax a visit before making it disappear. Unfortunately trainer-fly can't be used to skip anything on Route 25, because the nearby trainer who can be used for the trick is technically on Route 24.
I ran the numbers, a level 100 Nidoking would definitely be faster than Charmander or Gyarados for the path to Mew. Unfortunately, I don't think it's possible to meet something with only 7 Special in the cave, as the weakest Zubats and Geodudes still have 9 Special. It's possible to get level 100 Gengar, Ivysaur, or Nidoqueen in the cave, but they're all part-Poison and so not useful for wall-warping later.
I can't do an exact comparison between runs because of route differences, but Charmander is 1 minute faster through Mount Moon and Gyarados gains 50 seconds on all the battles near Cerulean. A level 100 Nidoking would save time from always moving first, always getting a one-hit win, and from Thrash being so fast to use.
It's Sod's Law that you can get all the Poison-type third-stage Pokemon early game, when those are precisely the ones that prevent WtW abuse.
So to clarify, Snorlax doesn't disappear if you cancel a Trainer-Fly by saving and resetting? Just when I thought I'd actually had a good idea for once...
Also someone should update the Pokemon Game Resources page with this info.
It's Sod's Law that you can get all the Poison-type third-stage Pokemon early game, when those are precisely the ones that prevent WtW abuse.
Over half of all the Poison-types in existence are from Generation 1.
So to clarify, Snorlax doesn't disappear if you cancel a Trainer-Fly by saving and resetting? Just when I thought I'd actually had a good idea for once...
To make Snorlax disappear, it has to load onto the top of the list of disappearable objects, because the trainer-fly glitch removes the first object from that list. I'm not sure if Snorlax disappears if I do the first part of trainer-fly before meeting it but trigger the encounter later. Now that I think about it, I think triggering the "wild" encounter is the event that actually deletes Snorlax. Unfortunately skipping the Gambler battle requires triggering Trainer-Fly twice, since we have to pass him once to load Snorlax onto the list of disappearing objects and pass him again once Snorlax is gone.
It's Sod's Law that you can get all the Poison-type third-stage Pokemon early game, when those are precisely the ones that prevent WtW abuse.
Over half of all the Poison-types in existence are from Generation 1.
So to clarify, Snorlax doesn't disappear if you cancel a Trainer-Fly by saving and resetting? Just when I thought I'd actually had a good idea for once...
To make Snorlax disappear, it has to load onto the top of the list of disappearable objects, because the trainer-fly glitch removes the first object from that list. I'm not sure if Snorlax disappears if I do the first part of trainer-fly before meeting it but trigger the encounter later. Now that I think about it, I think triggering the "wild" encounter is the event that actually deletes Snorlax. Unfortunately skipping the Gambler battle requires triggering Trainer-Fly twice, since we have to pass him once to load Snorlax onto the list of disappearing objects and pass him again once Snorlax is gone.
If anyone wants, there's more info on this here. :P
Cheers for the info...
Right so t-fly removes the last unskippable object encountered before a trainer battle is fought. If you are teleporting back to Cerulean to get the Bicycle quickly, that means you have to have picked up the hidden Rare Candy in Cerulean and whichever item in the underground path is considered the "one removable object" beforehand, so they don't become the last skippable object you encounter. Which is a little annoying to say the least. But still, if you do that you can then complete the trainer-fly by fighting a trainer on Route 6, and that will remove Snorlax.
Actually, the "one removable object" in Cerulean is probably the Rocket guard which disappears anyway, so that's not an issue.
EDIT: scratch that. From the game resources, "if this item has already been removed, there is no effect". So you can't remove Snorlax if you warp back to Cerulean because you will pass other removable objects on the way, and you can't ignore these even if you've already picked them up.
I'm sure other people worked this out years ago...
On another note, I just found an intriguing youtube video showing a method of performing Trainer-Fly in Viridian Forest. This could catch a Nidoking very early in the game, but it's agonizingly slow to perform the glitch. I'm not sure what the fastest route is to exploit this, but it's intriguing. Route 2 has plenty of Pokémon to give us Nidoking. The correct route might involve losing fights early on rather than winning - does anyone have an accurate damage calculator for Generation 1?
I'm exploring a lot of different routes because I'd like to make an improvement to Primo's no-glitch-warps run if there's a significant route change to be made. I wouldn't be interested in, as you said, splicing the second half of his run onto the first half of the glitched warps run.
Sorry for the double post, but this could be a big deal. It looks like the glitch to enter Trainer-Fly without using the Start menu puts the player in a different state of Trainer-Fly, where the trainer used to perform the glitch is considered defeated and the player can still use the A button. It may involve the Old Man from the Missingno. glitch, or it may be entirely about the method of fainting away from a trainer just before the battle. If it's the latter, that means we have a new method of performing Trainer-Fly that could skip the battle in Viridian Forest and more efficiently skip battles in Mount Moon.
Also, it may be possible to use this glitch to pick up any item in an area, since I just used it to pick up a Poke Ball from the other side of the map. Requires more testing.
edit: I made a bkm movie to show off the process of triggering a version of the glitch that crashes the game.
Nice! Knowing this game, there's almost certainly a way of getting arbitrary code execution out of this.
There probably is, and I don't have the knowledge to do it. I discovered the save corruption glitch used in the Yellow run but other people figured out how to make it useful. Unfortunately it looks like p4wn3r and MrWint haven't been on the forums in several months, I'll message FractalFusion and ask if he can figure out what's going on with this glitch.
I don't have much time right now to explore what the glitch does. It seems to be only a junk message/sound glitch rather than one which can be controlled at will. Generally, glitches that allow the program counter to jump into RAM are more useful towards arbitrary execution.
On another note, I just found an intriguing youtube video showing a method of performing Trainer-Fly in Viridian Forest. This could catch a Nidoking very early in the game, but it's agonizingly slow to perform the glitch. I'm not sure what the fastest route is to exploit this, but it's intriguing. Route 2 has plenty of Pokémon to give us Nidoking. The correct route might involve losing fights early on rather than winning - does anyone have an accurate damage calculator for Generation 1?
I'm exploring a lot of different routes because I'd like to make an improvement to Primo's no-glitch-warps run if there's a significant route change to be made. I wouldn't be interested in, as you said, splicing the second half of his run onto the first half of the glitched warps run.
I've actually done this specific glitch on console, and used it to get a level 100 Gengar (off Blue's second Pokémon; I forget what it is offhand). It did feel slightly different from a normal Trainer-Fly in the way it works; it was ages ago so I don't remember the details, but I think the text boxes were different, at least.
It's kind-of slow, but may be faster than the Trainer-Fly in Mt. Moon. Also it takes hundreds of tries to get on console, but that obviously isn't an issue for a TAS.
If the glitch isn't useful for arbitrary code, at least it's still faster than getting Gyarados for a no-glitch-warps run. I've done some testing and found that the glitch loses about 3 minutes getting through Viridian Forest, and then gains over 4 minutes Thrashing everything on the way to getting Mew. Nidoking wins battles faster than Mew, so it should stay in front of the team until the Juggler who poisons Mew in Koga's gym. I may start working on the TAS after I finish River City Ransom, but someone else can feel free to start on it if they want. Here's the planned route
1. Get Charmander with 18 HP and low DVs. All DVs even, defense DV of 0, 2, 4, or 6, special 0, 2, 4, 6, or 8.
2. Lose to 3 max-damage critical Tackles, or a tail whip and 3 non-crit Tackles if AI can't get a crit on the first turn. (I forgot if that is the case in Generation 1)
3. Heal at Pokémon Center in Viridian
4. Run Oak's parcel errand, proceed to Viridian Forest.
5. Run into level 5 wild Pikachu just in front of trainer, lose to 2 Thundershocks. Pikachu's special DV should be 10 or more so its special stat is 11.
6. Talk to Old Man, answer "No". Talk to him again and answer "Yes".
7. Encounter level 3-5 Caterpie or Weedle with 7 special, growl 6 times, run
8. Walk into forest, Poké Ball immediately added to inventory. Encounter level 1 Nidoking, catch it. 15 speed DV, and attack DV high enough to give it attack 7.
9. Fight level 3 Caterpie with Speed DV 0-4 so it has speed 7, same as Nidoking. HP and Defense DVs low enough to knock it out with 2 critical Poison Stings.
10. At Mart, buy 2 Poké Balls and 2 Escape Ropes. Out of money, but this route will require 3 Escape Ropes - for Bill, Sabrina, and Pokémon Mansion. Could either pick up the hidden one on Route 3 or just Teleport away from Bill's front door, whichever is faster.
11. Go through trainers with Nidoking. Always Thrash against three or more Pokémon. Use Thrash against two Pokémon if Poison Sting is not very effective or super effective against one or both of the trainer's team members.
12. Go through Mount Moon, fighting both trainers in the way.
13. Proceed as in Primo's run, but with Nidoking. Don't bother teaching the Bubblebeam TM, Nidoking gets by with Thrash and Poison Sting.
14. Catch Mew, but continue fighting with Nidoking. Get HM02.
15. Use Nidoking for fights until using Mew to face the last Juggler in Koga's gym. Rest of the run looks like the current run. Time savings at this point at least 5 minutes.
When activating Trainer-Fly in Viridian Forest, wouldn't it be more efficient to black out against a wild Pokemon that already has the appropriate Special stat? It would save you an encounter.
Also, what do you mean "after you finish River City Ransom"? Was there an improvement to the TAS that just got published?
When activating Trainer-Fly in Viridian Forest, wouldn't it be more efficient to black out against a wild Pokemon that already has the appropriate Special stat? It would save you an encounter.
I need a trainer battle to fix the trainer-fly status, otherwise the game will bug out and I won't get any wild Pokemon. The old man catching Weedle counts as a trainer battle, so that's the quickest way to set up the wild Nidoking. Earlier I planned on losing the second Rival fight, but when I discovered that the old man counts as a trainer battle this saved a lot of time.
When the trainer-fly glitch is used, the game tries to open the last dialogue box it tried to open. It normally opens the start menu because that's how the old glitch was performed, but the new method allows the game to open any dialogue box from the area of the glitch. The dialogue in Viridian where the old man says "time is money..." happens to correspond with the dialogue in Viridian Forest "I found Pokeball!" This allows a fast way to get a Pokeball for Nidoking without visiting the store in Viridian, which does not stock Escape Ropes.
Also, what do you mean "after you finish River City Ransom"? Was there an improvement to the TAS that just got published?
There might be. I'm trying a single-player TAS because the lag reduction might make it faster than my two-player TAS, right now it's too early to say for sure.
It sounds to me that your proposed route is just MrWint's transform glitch route up to Cerulean City and the current low-glitch route thereafter.
Recently, I figured out a way to get Mew in Mt. Moon, although it is slightly complicated. This could possibly save time rather than Trainer-Flying on Route 24, and lead to a faster TAS.
The steps are as followed:
1. Set up a Trainer-Fly where MrWint did to bypass the two optional trainers.
2. Don't PC save and quit. Instead, go inside Mt. Moon and pick up the ether required for the Cooltrainer move. (not neccesary to actually find mew)
3. Set up a blackout Trainer-Fly with the youngster.
4. Backtrack to the lass you normally avoid by walking in the grass.
5. The lass should have a level 14 Jigglypuff. Growl once, and either defeat or lose to the trainer. Ideally, you'd want to lose to save walking back to Mt. Moon.
6. Your Start menu should pop up, and it'll bring an encounter for a level 6 Gengar. The Gengar needs to have 21 special, or else it won't bring Mew up.
7. Run away from the Gengar, and go to the basement.
8. Your Start menu should pop up again. If the Gengar had a special of 21, the encounter should be mew.
The route would also be changed.
1. Keep current route until after delivering Oak's Parcel.
2. Defeat level 2 Pidgey with a critical. This allows to jump from level 6 to 8 after the Weedle fight and allowing you to get ember earlier. (It has to be a pidgey, because special EVs are different from current route.)
3. Instead of 1 escape rope and 2 Poke Balls, you buy 2 escape ropes and 1 Poke Ball.
4. Brock Skip and defeat all mandatory trainers.
5. In the grass, defeat a spearow, which is required for its odd special value of 31.
6. Heal at the Poke Center and enter Mt. Moon.
Between this step and catching Mew you should defeat two paras and one clefairy to get the required special value.
7. Do a Trainer-Fly on the Rocket in the bottom floor.
8. Don't PC save, and grab the ether.
9. Do a Blackout Trainer Fly on the youngster near the ladder.
10. Fight the lass in the grass, and make sure to let her walk to you.
11. Growl once and Jigglypuff should use Sing with it hitting.
12. Jigglypuff crits you and you blackout.
13. Go into Mt. Moon, and get an encounter for a level 6 Gengar with 21 special. Run away.
14. Go to the bottom floor and get Mew.
15. Defeat three level 11 Zubat and one level 10 Zubat. Mew should reach level 10 and learn transform.
16. Escape rope out and go to the Poke Center.
17. Deposit Charmander, which should have a special EV of 566, which corresponds to 0x0236 in HEX.
18. Fight the lass with the level 14 clefairy. Because no wild Pokemon have 3 moves in the cave, you have to fight a trainer in order to activate the glitch.
19. Perform the transform glitch while clefairy crits you with pound. Switch pound with sing and faint.
20. Go into Mt. Moon and get an encounter.
21. Win.
Note that I'm not entirely sure if this would work, because Metapod's Data could crash the game.
Meerkov wrote:
The human element of the run is far more entertaining than the game itself. If it wasn't for someone lying about their record 40 years ago, I don't think we'd take a second look at this run/game.
Meh vote.
Recently, I figured out a way to get Mew in Mt. Moon, although it is slightly complicated. This could possibly save time rather than Trainer-Flying on Route 24, and lead to a faster TAS.
This is intriguing, and I'm happy to see a new member getting into this thread. If this route works, it's brilliant, and I'll be testing it soon. I have some questions about your route:
2. Don't PC save and quit. Instead, go inside Mt. Moon and pick up the ether required for the Cooltrainer move. (not neccesary to actually find mew)
It would be necessary to PC save and quit in order to pick up that Ether. It may be possible to glitch an Ether into our inventory with blackout Trainer-Fly.
3. Set up a blackout Trainer-Fly with the youngster.
6. Your Start menu should pop up, and it'll bring an encounter for a level 6 Gengar. The Gengar needs to have 21 special, or else it won't bring Mew up.
Actually, a dialogue box should pop up. It may be possible to trigger the dialogue box for "I found Rare Candy", depending on the last one loaded by the game. It may also be possible to use a blackout Trainer-Fly in B2F to glitch Ether into the inventory.
2. Defeat level 2 Pidgey with a critical. This allows to jump from level 6 to 8 after the Weedle fight and allowing you to get ember earlier. (It has to be a pidgey, because special EVs are different from current route.)
Do you know precisely what special EVs and DVs are needed for this route?
Note that I'm not entirely sure if this would work, because Metapod's Data could crash the game.
What's this about Metapod's data? There's no reference to Metapod in your route plan. (Edit: I think you're referring to the Bug Catcher's 4th Pokémon, a Metapod. We don't need to fight that Metapod if its data is a problem, because it's possible to fight the Lass above that Bug Catcher and return to Pewter to reset her position. This would have an impact on Charmander's EVs.)
I have some questions for myself that I'll try to test soon.
1. What dialogue can trigger "I found Rare Candy" and "I found Ether"?
2. Can there be 2 areas in a state of Trainer-Fly, or does the glitch require completely separate executions?
It would be necessary to PC save and quit in order to pick up that Ether. It may be possible to glitch an Ether into our inventory with blackout Trainer-Fly.
For some reason, although the "A" and "Start" button are disabled, you can pick up hidden items.
Chamale wrote:
Actually, a dialogue box should pop up. It may be possible to trigger the dialogue box for "I found Rare Candy", depending on the last one loaded by the game. It may also be possible to use a blackout Trainer-Fly in B2F to glitch Ether into the inventory.
Again, I expected a dialogue box to pop-up, but instead the start menu popped up. I'm pretty sure this happens because you battle a trainer, which no longer makes a text box pop up.
Chamale wrote:
Do you know precisely what special EVs and DVs are needed for this route?
DVs required are 7 attack, 6 defense, 12 speed and 9 special.
The lower byte of the Special EV has to be 0x36, which can be 566, 310 or 54.
Chamale wrote:
I have some questions for myself that I'll try to test soon.
1. What dialogue can trigger "I found Rare Candy" and "I found Ether"?
2. Can there be 2 areas in a state of Trainer-Fly, or does the glitch require completely separate executions?
For 1. It won't work with the new route I've come up with to get Mew.
For 2. The reason you can have 2 trainer flys at once is that the 1st floor and the 3rd floor counts as two different maps.
I've also found a faster way to get Mew:
1. Perform a Black-Out Trainer Fly on any trainer except the Lass with Clefairy.
2. Walk into Mt. Moon and enter the bottom floor where the ether is.
3. Battle the rocket and let him walk to you.
4. Pick up the Ether.
5. Get an encounter for a level 12 Clefairy. The clefairy should have a special DV of 7, 8, 9 or 10.
6. Walk up to the first floor.
7. Get Mew.
Also, I was thinking about instead of using Charmander for the box data, you would use another Pokemon, say Pidgey. You would manipulate the DVs as usual, and in order to have 0x36, you would have Pidgey in front, battle 2 paras but switch out to charmander to split the EV from 55 to 27, which would then be 54.
EDIT: You can also get Mew using a level 12 paras.
Meerkov wrote:
The human element of the run is far more entertaining than the game itself. If it wasn't for someone lying about their record 40 years ago, I don't think we'd take a second look at this run/game.
Meh vote.
Are there any maps or charts that show the special stats of each Pokemon on each route in the game? Wanted to look into RBY trainer-fly routing a bit, but not sure where to look.
