Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6438
Location: The land down under.
In corruption terms (just asking a question).
Out of Gold, Silver and Crystal.
Is Gold the most broken? And will there ever be a run of either one of the other two?
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account.Something better for yourself and also others.
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Hi, I've started playing Pokemon Crystal (in the normal way) recently with the aid of some RAM value insight, and have two questions (which I haven't been able to find any answer to myself):
1. Are there any RAM addresses in Crystal that will tell me what Pokemon (and their rates) I can encounter in the current area? In Pokemon blue, this information is stored in RAM D887 to D89B (see http://datacrystal.romhacking.net/wiki/Pok%C3%A9mon_Red/Blue:RAM_map#Wild_Pok.C3.A9mon)
I have been googling around, and found a lot of information over at
http://forums.glitchcity.info/index.php?topic=1342.0
but no information on possible encounter ID.
2. Which are the most important RAM addresses for knowing when a random encounter occurs? And can I modify the RAM to force an encounter on every step?
Hopefully this information could be useful for you TASers out there, too.
I as well would like to know more about what goes on in the RAM, especially during glitching.
Link to video
Just messing around here it's interesting to see how corrupt the game becomes. I wonder just how much of this could be abused.
Ever since I recorded this the other day, I've been thinking of possible improvements to the current run.
-Since Abra has a 10% encounter rate outside the daycare, would just catching one there for teleport be the way to go (unless you need a lvl20 one for distortion)?
-Would it be faster to skip the Goldeen battle, critical geodudes with scratch/rage, and have slightly lower stats for the later fights than getting that xp?
-If you went with skipping the fight, would it be faster to not evolve Totodile (assuming distortion would still work)?
Eh, I think there is more I'm forgetting, I'll edit this later.
- Certain that catching Abra naturally would be faster, by about two minutes, since it also saves a fight required to get the Coin Case. I was going to ask about this but assumed I was misremembering where it appeared. This is presumably a relic from the RTA route, where a 10% chance to find a Pokemon is too low to be relied upon.
- Not sure about Goldeen, you'd have to test it.
- I reckon evolving Totodile would probably still be worth it because it would make the upcoming Silver battle quicker.
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
After doing some trace logging, it seems that while Pokemon Blue stores its potential random encounters inside the RAM, Pokemon Crystal (and maybe Gold and Silver too?) gets its encounters directly from the ROM. It will use a dynamic address pointer to get all the potential encounter from the ROM memory.
Looks like someone beat the current TAS record by about 4.5 minutes...in real time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9EfVBGK-GU
tl;dw: A new Coin Case arbitrary execution strategy that involves renaming the PC boxes and only requires one use of the Coin Case.
Looks like someone beat the current TAS record by about 4.5 minutes...in real time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9EfVBGK-GU
tl;dw: A new Coin Case arbitrary execution strategy that involves renaming the PC boxes and only requires one use of the Coin Case.
Yup, that's (mostly) my work. Since I documented Coin Case in the first place, I figured I might as well do a route to beat the game faster than the TAS(es), in real time.
You can see the current route over here.
I have a very theoretical route for a TAS, too, but it's still in the works. It would involve extremely heavy RNG abuse. (And hopefully no boxes.)
Looks like someone beat the current TAS record...in real time.
Can't these real-time runners give the TAS community a break? TASers only regained the record two weeks ago.
Sanky wrote:
Yup, that's (mostly) my work. Since I documented Coin Case in the first place, I figured I might as well do a route to beat the game faster than the TAS(es), in real time.
You can see the current route over here.
I have a very theoretical route for a TAS, too, but it's still in the works. It would involve extremely heavy RNG abuse. (And hopefully no boxes.)
Wow, that's really incredible, Sanky. I will never understand how these tricks get found. I believe that FractalFusion is has some ideas regarding the coin case too - maybe you could collaborate?
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
This is a rather petty complaint, but has anyone considered doing a run of Silver or Crystal as opposed to Gold? It just feels a bit weird, since multiple videos of all four Generation I games (Green included) are published here, whereas only one Generation II game is published despite there being at least 3-5 possible categories:
- Beat the game any% (Coin Case glitch, RTA record <48 minutes)
- Beat the game without arbitrary code execution (Questionable category, would use map distortion like the current route does)
- Beat the game without memory corruption (FractalFusion's run from 2006)
- Goof around with arbitrary code execution a la Pokemon Yellow or Super Mario World (not sure how freely Gen II lets you pull this off)
- Complete the Pokedex (Questionable category, possible without arbitrary code through getting bad clones (see Celebi egg glitch), I think this is faster in Crystal)
Seriously though, why hasn't anyone ever submitted a Silver/Crystal run? There's four Gold submissions (two rejected) and zero submissions of the other two.
This is a rather petty complaint, but has anyone considered doing a run of Silver or Crystal as opposed to Gold? It just feels a bit weird, since multiple videos of all four Generation I games (Green included) are published here, whereas only one Generation II game is published despite there being at least 3-5 possible categories:
- Beat the game any% (Coin Case glitch, RTA record <48 minutes)
Only just got discovered so there's no TAS for it anyway.
- Beat the game without arbitrary code execution (Questionable category, would use map distortion like the current route does)
Only works in gold.
- Beat the game without memory corruption (FractalFusion's run from 2006)
I recall gold is faster than silver, thus gold was chosen - crystal is a different, longer game, so would be its own category - but at the same time, for TAS it's not an awful lot different to watch, so what's the incentive to re-invent the wheel?
- Goof around with arbitrary code execution a la Pokemon Yellow or Super Mario World (not sure how freely Gen II lets you pull this off)
Main problem with such a TAS is that if it went from power on, we'd have to wait 40ish minutes for the TAS to get to goldenrod.
- Complete the Pokedex (Questionable category, possible without arbitrary code through getting bad clones (see Celebi egg glitch), I think this is faster in Crystal)
I've never heard any buzz about this category, so don't expect a TAS of this for years :P
Seriously though, why hasn't anyone ever submitted a Silver/Crystal run? There's four Gold submissions (two rejected) and zero submissions of the other two.
I recall gold is faster than silver, thus gold was chosen - crystal is a different, longer game, so would be its own category - but at the same time, for TAS it's not an awful lot different to watch, so what's the incentive to re-invent the wheel?
Oh, I was thinking of werster's version differences pastebin. http://pastebin.com/kBENQqJ4 But I guess this only applies to RTA. Maybe FractalFusion can talk about why he chose gold over silver, because he didn't say in his TAS notes.
I really think that there should be two categories only for this game: a "glitch-free" version and an any% version. If there were to be any other category, then probably a 100% run, though like Patashu said, it's unlikely to ever get made (too much effort for too boring a movie). The last thing GSC needs is a Super Metroid-esque clusterfuck of overcategorisation. Sure, it would be a shame if there were no current published runs to use the bad clone glitch (which will be the case after someone makes a coin case TAS), but people could still watch bobmario's obsoleted movie if they wanted to see some bad clone action.
As for an improved Silver/Crystal run, they would be too similar to FractalFusion's Gold.
I don't know where everyone is getting that the Coin Case glitch doesn't work on Silver.
The Coin Case glitch works on Silver, just as it does on Gold. In fact one of my test runs uses it on Pokemon Silver.
I've been busy lately, so I haven't started the final version of the run yet. There's a lot of luck-manipulation and planning to go around.
I heard though that the Coin Case glitch doesn't work on J versions. Can anyone confirm this?
Huh. Well, in that case, does the coin case glitch work at all in Crystal? If so, then I guess a "glitchless" version should use the japanese along with whatever version that wasn't taken for the glitched.
