RachelB
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Player (129)
Joined: 12/3/2011
Posts: 1579
Shouldn't this be very easy to do with a bot?
Editor, Skilled player (1535)
Joined: 7/9/2010
Posts: 1319
Yes, but it could take a shitload of time, depending how well the bot is programmed.
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RachelB
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Player (129)
Joined: 12/3/2011
Posts: 1579
Well, Grunz said he hasn't really been working on it for 1.5 months now, so i guess that's not a serious issue.
Patashu
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Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 4042
RachelB wrote:
Shouldn't this be very easy to do with a bot?
I think the reason why a bot wasn't used for it the last TAS is due to Mupen being awful.
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Joined: 3/17/2009
Posts: 496
thank you for the update Grunz. It is amazing to hear that you have gotten so far. Kinda sad to learn that you are being stopped by random lag during a cutscene, but what can you do? Here's to you getting the same amount of frames as your last TAS or fewer on your next try
Player (156)
Joined: 4/7/2008
Posts: 217
An 18-frame sacrifice wouldn't be too terrible, but as of now we're hoping to bring it down to at least 10. Of course the time could always come that we're simply too sick of doing attempts and will have to move on with whatever we have.
RachelB wrote:
Shouldn't this be very easy to do with a bot?
Is that actually possible with the current Mupen? We've talked about this before but have always assumed it wasn't. A bot for manipulation grinding would be helpful for other areas of the any% as well. DT nut + skullwalltula being one example.
RachelB
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Player (129)
Joined: 12/3/2011
Posts: 1579
There is a version of mupen that includes lua support.
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
Patashu wrote:
If there's nothing stopping you from finishing besides the cutscene then go with whatever you have so far. I mean, frames gained/lost during that cutscene are basically arbitrary and could be due to emulator inaccuracies/etc and certainly won't be perceivable by viewers :)
Yeah right, Grunz is going to sacrifice frames. That's going to happen when hell freezes over.
RachelB wrote:
Shouldn't this be very easy to do with a bot?
Well since it's so desyncy a bot would have to play it back, once it has found a fast way, since most of the time that fast way will actually desync. So not that simple...
RachelB wrote:
There is a version of mupen that includes lua support.
Which probably doesnt support reset recording. Kinda sad that bizhawk's N64 core wasn't done when this TAS began. It seems to be really robust and has lua scripting. There is that issue, where it won't delete sram on playback and thus desync, but I have been told that you can delete it manually (even though that doesn't seem to work for me).
RachelB
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Player (129)
Joined: 12/3/2011
Posts: 1579
Slowking wrote:
Well since it's so desyncy a bot would have to play it back, once it has found a fast way, since most of the time that fast way will actually desync. So not that simple...
I don't see why that is a problem. This just seems like another argument for using a bot instead of doing it manually.
RachelB wrote:
There is a version of mupen that includes lua support.
Which probably doesnt support reset recording.
Why does it need to? Just start from a save state?
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
If you believe that that will then sync when you do the same input on the rerecording mupen, you don't know mupen. * * It might work, but is unlikely.
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Joined: 9/17/2009
Posts: 4980
Location: ̶C̶a̶n̶a̶d̶a̶ "Kanatah"
Slowking wrote:
If you believe that that will then sync when you do the same input on the rerecording mupen, you don't know mupen. * * It might work, but is unlikely.
Why are you still using mupen though?
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
I'm not. Buuuuut Grunz and Bloob are because the TAS was started long before bizhawk had the N64 core and m64s can't be easily ported. Which I did say already on this page... so why are you not reading?
Skilled player (1738)
Joined: 9/17/2009
Posts: 4980
Location: ̶C̶a̶n̶a̶d̶a̶ "Kanatah"
Slowking wrote:
I'm not. Buuuuut Grunz and Bloob are because the TAS was started long before bizhawk had the N64 core and m64s can't be easily ported. Which I did say already on this page... so why are you not reading?
No. I'm just wondering why not redo on a more stable emulator than continue on one that's crap. And before you ask, I have restarted runs like that on other games several times before, and despite the annoyance, it's still sometimes better to do so.
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
Well that would be a major buzzkill, since they are already at the final boss. I'm confident that they'll get that lag down.
Joined: 1/17/2008
Posts: 133
My (probably flawed) viewpoint says: accept a lag compromise, in the interests of completing the run. Everyone can move on to a better emulator with better tools for the next iteration. Putting effort into shaving 8 frames from this lag situation, only makes sense to me, if we are confident that we won't save 8+ frames in the TAS prior to that point, when it is redone with a different emu and more tools. If we really have already achieved that kind of optimization, what's happening now makes more sense. I'm not in the circle enough here to know how much our top OOT TASers have tinkered with other portions of this game in bizhawk so far.
Experienced player (588)
Joined: 2/5/2011
Posts: 1417
Location: France
I know I'll get killed by everyone. But are you talking about OoT optimisation?
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Experienced player (603)
Joined: 2/8/2009
Posts: 656
Yeah what else should we talking about in the OoT topic?
Editor, Experienced player (859)
Joined: 8/12/2008
Posts: 845
Location: Québec, Canada
Just let Grunz/Bloob try to save the frames. If it's too hard they'll just lose 'em. Who cares? They are two clever guy, they know what they're doing. Just wait for the submission and appreciate their hard work.
Player (156)
Joined: 4/7/2008
Posts: 217
Well, we finally got a result that we are happy with, so thankfully we'll be continuing on now.
Experienced player (588)
Joined: 2/5/2011
Posts: 1417
Location: France
oh ok. Totally agreed with Nahoc btw. Good luck ;)
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Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
Knew you guys would get it. :)
THC98
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Experienced player (920)
Joined: 8/7/2012
Posts: 279
Location: Brazil
Oh yeah, that's great Bloob and Grunz! Awesome to know that you got it now. Best of luck in TASing Ganon :D
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Joined: 3/17/2009
Posts: 496
Bloobiebla wrote:
Well, we finally got a result that we are happy with, so thankfully we'll be continuing on now.
Congratz!!!
Post subject: Need OOT save/states
Joined: 7/29/2011
Posts: 61
Can anyone give me a save or state of OOT before completing Lord Jabu Jabu or right before the Dodongo boss? I'm playing OOT retextured version and the settings were off before I realized they were after I completed Jabu Jabu level. I assumed nobody did any work on Jabu Jabu level so I didn't notice. Now I need to go back but I don't feel like playing all that way again. I tried running an old speedrun (guanobowl) for OOT but it desynced after completing Deku Tree. He was headed for gerudo desert so I don't think this speedrun even has point before Jabu Jabu. Do any of them?
Patashu
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Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 4042
The 'Medallions, Stones, Trials' TAS currently on tasvideos beats all dungeons, whichs includes Jabu Jabu and Dodongo Cavern.
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