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Posted: 4/30/2005 3:57 AM
Post subject: Rockman zero 4
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Too_Bored
Joined: 12/24/2004
Posts: 50
Location: NYC
recently or well i dunno what the day was when the film came out but a man recently made a film no damage 100% complete... there were missed shots and well that seemed that that was the only error but to make a long story short it could be better. the game seems very interesting so if there is any one who is willing to take up that game it would b great...............
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Posted: 4/30/2005 9:57 PM
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Unknown_User
Joined: 1/1/2022
Posts: 1716
Hi Me and Mike Uyaman (sp? heh sorry) from SDA are currently running through the game. I did half of MegaZpeed 2 (the zero 3 run) with McBain. It's not going to be a re-recorded run but.. while having a zero 4 topic, I'd like to ask some questions to people around here. We plan on using the galakuta armor (200% dmg but you get hit 200% more too.). It's harder to run but it's also a LOT faster on normal difficulty. I personally don't like perfect runs (as in, a billion of re-records) because it doesn't show the real skills of the guy running it.. Only his knowledge about the game. I like to show off both sides, knowledge AND skills. My question here is: Knowing our (me and mike's) past record of Zero games running. How would our run be seen.. IF: We used a save state at the beginning of a stage and reloaded each time we make a mistake. Because that is what we usually do. We start a movie, run through the stage with minimal mistakes (well we're not perfect.). If we save at the beginning of the stage, it saves us the very long and boring action of clicking on "stop record", "start record" "write file name (and sometimes accidentally delete it)". On the other hand, if the user opens the file, he'll see that it takes us approx 30+ tries to run a stage the way we want to.. That may lead him to think we cheated. But like I said, Mike and I have both did runs in the past that didn't involve re-records (I have a VERY VERY old megaman 1 run (maybe the first?) single-segmented run on zophar.net (as Flyingman) and I worked on MegaZpeed. So that's why I'm a bit concerned about this issue. As for the galakuta armor, the run would be on new game+ because there's NOTHING more boring than seeing a guy gather crap to make an armor. That run would be a pure speed run with human mistakes and nothing else. thank you for your time people.
Posted: 4/30/2005 10:20 PM
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NrgSpoon
Joined: 6/14/2004
Posts: 646
Well, if you include that information in the author notes I'm sure that should do nicely. Like "all re-records were to stage entrances only" or something to that effect.
I like my "thank you"s in monetary form.
Posted: 5/1/2005 12:03 AM
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mikwuyma
Joined: 12/20/2004
Posts: 226
It's Uyama ouranos :P I thought we agreed on just using stop movie, reload the save state, then start movie to prevent people from accusing us of cheating. If not, then I suggest we do because there will be people who will accuse us of cheating if we used only one rerecord no matter what we say.
Posted: 5/1/2005 2:57 AM
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Unknown_User
Joined: 1/1/2022
Posts: 1716
we did agree on that but.. quite frankly. Even if they accused us.. so what? heh. Plus we have proof that we don't cheat. (megazpeed 2 was recorded before vba re-record existed, my mm1 run) and you have a crapload of single-segmented legit runs on sda. It's just that for some reasons, I've always had trouble in the 2-3 seconds of a stage. I know it's weird lol. My stage 1 run (32 seconds hah!) was re-recorded 120 times. 90 out of those 120 were in the first 4 seconds and I don't even know why. It's like I start daydreaming heh. the wolf stage I only restarted like 60 times (which is still a lot but he was not so nice with me. But it's ok since I annihilated him in 3 seconds in my run hah)
Posted: 5/1/2005 8:04 AM
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BoltR
Former player
Joined: 8/12/2004
Posts: 651
Location: Alberta, Canada
I think the whole idea of "so what" is probably the best one to take. No matter who you are, or what you do, if you play it on an emulator which supports rerecords, there are people who are going to claim it is "fake". If the possibility that there are rerecords there are people who will assume that you used them. Add to this the fact that it is EXTREMELY easy to hex edit your movie file and change how many rerecords you used on a movie. Doing this also raises the question of "How often do you need to rerecord before it is actually considered 'tool-assisted'?". Is loading saving after each level to save time not 'cheating'? What about every stage? Room? Trick? Jump? This question however works in both directions. If you save-state only at save points does it make it the same as a segmented run? What if in a game where you can save and restart anywhere? Could you just save-state and say "Well I could save and retry this part anyways"? As for the proof that you are highly skilled, and could pull it off. Personally I have watched all of mike's runs at SDA, and have really enjoyed them. They display an amazing amount of talent, as he manages pull of things which I would think to only see in a TAS, such as the way he manages to manipulate some of the bosses. However, the very idea that your using an emulator seems to undermine the skill that you have. While most people jump to the conclusion that everyone that who makes TAS are terrible at video games and just make them to make themselves feel good; this not really the case. There are actually quite a number of people who make videos for the site who are very skilled at video games. Some hold "legit" records for games, others compete at the world level in tournaments. I suppose a good example of this would be omega's no re-record/slowdown Rockman run, which you can find in the description text of the tool-assisted Rockman run. He has other 'legit' runs elsewhere on the internet which proves he has skill in games (One of which is a Rockman 2 run I beleive?), and if you were in IRC and the forums he provided updated runs as he finished them, as he built up to that time. However, it's done with an emulator which supports slowdowns and savestates, so how many people will beleive that he didn't cheat to get that time? Especially when he managed to use some of those glitches in the TAS run. Honestly, probably not that many. At the end of the day it's up to you. Your the ones watching the run, and it's up to you. People will still watch the run, and if the reason your making the videos is to entertain people then why not?
Posted: 5/1/2005 9:44 AM
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McBAIN
Joined: 1/9/2005
Posts: 219
Location: The Netherlands
At the end of the day it's up to you. Your the ones watching the run, and it's up to you. People will still watch the run, and if the reason your making the videos is to entertain people then why not? Watching a run with incredible speed and moves as a speedrun would be much more entertaining than a TA video though, so that counts.
http://www.megazpeed.com - THE site for the ultimate MegaMan Zero superplay movies.
Posted: 5/1/2005 9:47 AM
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KaitouKid
Former player
Joined: 6/6/2005
Posts: 384
Grah. I tried taking a crack at the intro level out of boredom, but my dumb ass forgot to double-check that it was recording again after I fixed a mistake. So I just wasted like half an hour. I had a good boss fight, too. Stupid thing never fired the laser once. As soon as the fight started, I dashed over, ripped out one cable, triple slashed, ripped out another one, etc. It only spat like three drill enemies at me, too. Well, first things to take into account: Dash-slashing seems to do twice the amount of regular slashing. Regular Vava-looking trooper goons take two standing slashes or one dashing slash to kill. So of course you'll want to dash and slash all of those. The thing I'm wondering is: Is the triple-slash more effective than a fully charged slash? It seems to be, but I didn't really do any testing on the boss. Triple slash seems to get through flashing invincibility longer, if that makes sense. Those damn flamethrower enemies... ugh. Two facing away, one facing towards. The simplest method would be to use the Z-Knuckle while on a jump's descent to grab the shield away, quickly slash (jump-slash?) to kill the enemy, and immediately go into a dash. On the next big jump, hit select to chuck the stolen shield. The second one's the same, but there's a little turret thing just to the left, so you have to be more careful. Whether two bunny hop slashes or a charged slash takes out the final one quicker has yet to be seen.
Posted: 5/1/2005 9:55 AM
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McBAIN
Joined: 1/9/2005
Posts: 219
Location: The Netherlands
For one, be sure to watch the previous movie since there are useful tactics in that movie. I didn't hear you about using bombs against the boss for example. Two, dashing slashes reduce your dashing speed, so i'm not sure if it's ever to be used. I myself actually try to never use them in my speedruns. You should equip the buster instead, and mass-spam attack them with bullet shots (such as seen in the MMX TA video's) Three, i recommend reading this page for various tips on the game. http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2187
http://www.megazpeed.com - THE site for the ultimate MegaMan Zero superplay movies.
Posted: 5/1/2005 8:02 PM
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BoltR
Former player
Joined: 8/12/2004
Posts: 651
Location: Alberta, Canada
McBAIN wrote:
At the end of the day it's up to you. Your the ones watching the run, and it's up to you. People will still watch the run, and if the reason your making the videos is to entertain people then why not? Watching a run with incredible speed and moves as a speedrun would be much more entertaining than a TA video though, so that counts.
Doh I ment to write "making" there, not watching. That's what I get for not reading it over.
Posted: 5/1/2005 8:07 PM
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McBAIN
Joined: 1/9/2005
Posts: 219
Location: The Netherlands
Heh, well, nonetheless i meant the same. If it's not us making it, it's the people watching it. And people watching is what making runs is all about.
http://www.megazpeed.com - THE site for the ultimate MegaMan Zero superplay movies.
Posted: 5/1/2005 8:09 PM
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BoltR
Former player
Joined: 8/12/2004
Posts: 651
Location: Alberta, Canada
McBAIN wrote:
Heh, well, nonetheless i meant the same. If it's not us making it, it's the people watching it. And people watching is what making runs is all about.
While I agree with you on this point, there are people who don't. There are people who speedrun only for bragging rights, and not for entertainment purposes.
Posted: 5/1/2005 8:14 PM
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McBAIN
Joined: 1/9/2005
Posts: 219
Location: The Netherlands
True. To be honest i don't mind the attention at all, ^_^ and it's nice to have your name up there. But i started running this series because nobody else made a run yet, and i wanted to watch A speedrun. So yeah, entertainment is what it's all about for the most, for me.
http://www.megazpeed.com - THE site for the ultimate MegaMan Zero superplay movies.
Posted: 5/1/2005 9:07 PM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
There are also people who speedrun privately, just for fun...
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 5/26/2005 9:17 PM
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Xaphan
Former player
Joined: 5/24/2005
Posts: 405
Location: France
Hi, well i don't know if anyone will still come here, but i want to handle a RZ4 TA (some people already know)... And I may need some more advice http://www.filespace.org.nyud.net:8090/Xaphan/WIP_RMZ4_first_mission.vbm this is the very first mission, so tell me what you think about it and what could be improved...
Not dead yet... still very busy... damn...
Posted: 5/26/2005 9:17 PM
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Xaphan
Former player
Joined: 5/24/2005
Posts: 405
Location: France
Hi, well i don't know if anyone will still come here, but i want to handle a RZ4 TA (some people already know)... And I may need some more advice http://www.filespace.org.nyud.net:8090/Xaphan/WIP_RMZ4_first_mission.vbm this is the very first mission, so tell me what you think about it and what could be improved...
Not dead yet... still very busy... damn...
Posted: 5/26/2005 9:26 PM
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McBAIN
Joined: 1/9/2005
Posts: 219
Location: The Netherlands
Can't dl it
http://www.megazpeed.com - THE site for the ultimate MegaMan Zero superplay movies.
Posted: 5/26/2005 9:35 PM
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OgreSlayeR
Former player
Joined: 7/12/2004
Posts: 524
Location: USA
Works for me. Try Save As.
Working on: Command and Conquer PSX Nod Campaign
Posted: 5/26/2005 9:45 PM
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Xaphan
Former player
Joined: 5/24/2005
Posts: 405
Location: France
Quite strange... I can download it (even if it's useless)...
Not dead yet... still very busy... damn...
Posted: 5/26/2005 9:46 PM
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Xaphan
Former player
Joined: 5/24/2005
Posts: 405
Location: France
Quite strange... I can download it (even if it's useless)...
Not dead yet... still very busy... damn...
Posted: 5/27/2005 5:30 AM
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McBAIN
Joined: 1/9/2005
Posts: 219
Location: The Netherlands
works now :S must've been downtime
http://www.megazpeed.com - THE site for the ultimate MegaMan Zero superplay movies.
Posted: 6/6/2005 6:26 PM
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Xaphan
Former player
Joined: 5/24/2005
Posts: 405
Location: France
It's me again, Well i've begun a RMZ4 TA and i would like to have some of your comments... what do you think of it??? however it's not finished of course... I've done so far : -First Mission -Second Mission -Nobile Mandrago -Pupula Cockapetri -Heat Genblem (to be improved a lot...) here is the URL : http://fast.filespace.org/Xaphan/RockMan_ZERO_4_-_TA_-_Heat_Genblem_completed.vbm Thx everybody...
Not dead yet... still very busy... damn...
Posted: 6/6/2005 6:28 PM
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Xaphan
Former player
Joined: 5/24/2005
Posts: 405
Location: France
It might take time before the download starts so do not worry...
Not dead yet... still very busy... damn...
Posted: 6/6/2005 6:52 PM
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KaitouKid
Former player
Joined: 6/6/2005
Posts: 384
I dunno the inner workings of the Zero series as well as some, but I liked what I saw. Very fun to watch for me. Mandrago's stage... very fast vine-yanking and a laughably short miniboss 'fight'... Is it just me, or do Zero's grunts not only sound disturbing, they sound like another voice actor did them. >>; The dragon in Genblem's stage is using Mothra's (I think. It's her or Rodan.) voice, wtf. Fitting, I guess, since Genblem himself steals Gamera's flying techniques.
Posted: 6/6/2005 7:23 PM
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Xaphan
Former player
Joined: 5/24/2005
Posts: 405
Location: France
Wow, you seem to know lost of things about the voices used in those games KaitouKid... Thx for your comments ;)
Not dead yet... still very busy... damn...
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