Joined: 6/5/2005
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Yes desynchs are a major issue with the current versions of snes9x for these games. It was a major headache for Tompala and I when we were attempting to make movies with this series of games.
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You didn't quite answer my question; was the first level being generated differently than when the recording was made one of the problems? ZSNES 1.51 worked fine when I used a password to skip over that level; might be worth looking into for you guys. (I'd try again, but my computer's dead.) Password for level 2 on Jedi is RRSBTS, I believe.
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Why do these games desynch so much? There has to be something that makes them more prone to desynchs than other games.
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Has anyone tried playing these games recently with a new emulator such as lsnes? I am curious if desync is still a problem with these games.
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Looks like this thread has been a bit dead for a while, but I think I may work on this a bit. I figured this was a good one to check out for a few reasons. Seems like there were a lot of desync problems, but that should be solved now with bizhawk. I stick to tastudio/tasedit which is why I didn't look at this before, but bizhawk has that too. Lastly it seems somewhat of a natural follow on because I did NES Empire Strikes Back. I did a test run and played through with frame advance to get a ballpark on the run. My run came out at 38:07.87, but there could easily be a few minutes shaved in an honest tas.
Post subject: Super star wars return of the jedi (old) wip1: YouTube
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Link to video
Tompa wrote:
Well... I guess I can post the first lvl of Return of the Jedi ;D. The first lvl can be improved a bit. But in case someone (Tragedy perhaps) wanted to take the challenge.. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/4430/Super%20Star%20Wars%20-%20Return%20of%20the%20Jedi%20%28U%29%20%28V1.0%29%20%5B%21%5D.smv And no, I'm not working with this anymore... Hardly anyway, I start playing the game sometimes but I don't do anything interesting.
Tompa
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Heh, that old WIP with the awful sound effects :D. It can be improved a lot with lag reducing, something I wasn't looking at back when it was created. Very nice that someone else wants to run these games, Link_7777! I believe that run is for the first SSW game? I would love to see it, despite not being optimised.
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Yeah, I figured I'd start at the beginning with SSW. Here is the first pass. I haven't done any encoding, so I'm just posting the input. I did it on Jedi difficulty, so in my test run I clearly waste plenty of time trying not to die. Any tips or tricks anyone has could be helpful. Clearly sliding is faster than walking, and from earlier in the thread it looks like I can keep the sarlacc from retreating. I found a few addresses. X: 0C63 Y: 0FC9 Sarlacc Health: 0A7B and 003B may be X speed? I'm not an expert with the ram search yet.
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I've put together what I think is a reasonable run. I'll still have to go through and type up notes and stuff, but I'll post it in case someone wants to check it out. Here is Super Star Wars in 22:00.41.
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Desync at Inside Sandcrawler...
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I was afraid of desync issues. I'm running bizhawk rev 3628 it looks like. I haven't tried playing it back on a released version or the latest svn revision. Edit: Upon further investigation it looks like it does sync about half of the time. Edit2: Bizhawk snes had an issue with clearing the state when you reload the rom. This has been fixed an the run syncs now.
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You should check out my speedrun for the level 4 boss skip and a possibly faster blaster upgrade route. http://speeddemosarchive.com/SuperStarWars.html
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Thanks for the tip pootrain. To shift gears on this thread a bit, I figured I'd take a look at Empire Strikes Back. This game is much longer, and even on 'brave' not 'jedi' it was quite taxing just playing in frame advance. I may as well post my first pass play through here in case anyone is interested. Unfortunately the games is pretty long, it came out around 52 minutes, and I'd be surprised to see an honest TAS come in too much shorter than 45 minutes.
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Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Tompa
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There have been some real time speedrunning for the three games. And there have been new discoveries for ESB and RotJ at least, can't remember any for SSW as of now. Jadin made a "god TAS" run of ESB, with the purpose of how fast a perfect real time run could be. You can see that run here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=uykDZvQfBCc. A perfect TAS will of course be even faster. It does however show a couple of neat tricks and glitches. Such as despawning all the eyes on the Dagobah boss, as well as skipping the Boba Fett fight. For Return of the Jedi I discovered a Sliding Teleport glitch. By sliding and being pushed by an enemy, you can go through the wall. Such as for a nice shortcut: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIYtEOqLHJM And to skip the two guards before Vader: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WG0y5aB2FW0. It can also be done in the Power Generator (Though currently with Leia only) to skip some parts of it. It is also possible to skip both boss fights in the Ewok levels. You can see them in the console record run: http://www.twitch.tv/edenalsda/c/2162992 I guess that is all I have to share currently =).
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Got tired of Hachiemon so decided to do something else for a bit. Don't worry I'll get back to it soon. For now I just want to post this little test I did and what things I've noticed about the game. Some enemies are random. Sometimes they spawn, sometimes they don't. I found that if you cancel your slide by shooting it cuts down on the transition frames by a few (at least I think..). Doing this also cuts down on lag frames considerably for whatever reason. Also making enemies not spawn cuts down on lag frames as well. Another thing I noticed is that when you do a high jump and shoot, sometimes you teleport upwards slightly? I'm not sure but it seems like it could be used to gain height. Anyways, here's the test (bizhawk 1.8.1): http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/18216882984672579
Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.
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So this is interesting. I used boosting in more places, and for that reason I got across the level quicker. I was ahead by about 20 frames of my other attempt when approaching the boss. However, I'm at the right side of the screen and the screen takes a while to catch back up and it ends up being about 15 frames slower in the end.. Frame 4245 on the revised version, when the boss text appears. And frame 4230 on the old version, when the boss text appears also. So that's something to consider as well, and makes things more annoying. Unless you can find a way to make the screen catch up quicker. Edit Okay, so far I found that sliding backwards for about 2 or so frames and then resuming will put the camera back close to where it should be. I was able to get the boss text at 4218 now, not quite the 20 frames I was ahead by, but still 12. frame 4218 Added the finished file, Now using the 1.0 version of the Rom. I think it should be correct. http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/18235736872675195 Edit2: So you can apparently manipulate when the boss first appears. I managed to get him to appear quicker. However I messed around on the old test I did, and for some reason he appeared a couple of frames after the boss text appeared. I couldn't get it that fast this time around, but I think with some good RAM watches and rng breakdown, it should be possible. That being said I'm not very good at that. Here's a comparison (older version first, new version second) of when his tentacle first appears: Frame 4266.......................................................Frame 4245 Unfortunately I wasn't able to scroll the screen to the right as much as last time, which I believe cuts down on a few lag frames during the fight. Also, that version I got before on a random file, he appeared when the boss meter was around the end of the S in his name. I wanna say that's about ... 10 frames faster, but I'm not sure, I saved over that file since then.
Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.
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Figured this warrants a new post. Found a faster way to shoot using the slide for 1 frame to reset your ability to shoot. This means I can rapidfire the boss, between all the lag frames of course.. I haven't checked if it's possible to save time elsewhere in the level, specifically the first scorpion that I jump over. http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/18259452378171462 Edit: Saved 24 more frames on the boss fight, from watching his HP and better placement. http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/18276025283337118 Edit2: Finally got the boss to appear when I previously said I did. He appears when the boss meter is just at the S. I believe this is the fastest possible, but I can't be entirely sure. This saves another 10 frames overall, maybe more if I try to prevent more lag.
Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.
Tompa
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That was neato! =)
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Awesome job!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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So, anyone want to help on the second level? This is giving me nightmares with randomness, and how laggy it is. Since I don't know anything about the rng, I have no idea just how much these things can be manipulated to appear. I know you can reduce lag by manipulating there to be no enemies on the way to sandcrawler. Anyway here's a small test I did... I'm 99% positive you can manipulate them faster, but I hate this level so much. http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/18323102971852052
Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.
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Link to video just posting this here for future reference.
effort on the first draft means less effort on any draft thereafter - some loser
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Improved level 2 slightly, and finished level 3. Using L and R to scroll things off screen, such as turrets, and explosions when you blow something up. That lessens the lag a little bit, but it's still very laggy. Didn't use the shooting/slide cancel at the top, because it's a homing powerup and it will generate a lot of lag homing into those turrets. A superjump glitch of some sort would sure help in this level... http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/18421065572467152
Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.
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Awesome! Link to video
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Lemme just slide past all these turrets, excuse me, excuse me. Keep this up Exxonym, I like this better than hacheoman or whatever that japanese game is called.