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Posted: 2/20/2012 11:13 AM
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Reeve
Joined: 5/12/2009
Posts: 748
Location: Brazil
Well, I wish more people share the same opinion. Hum... i have a feeling Saturn is working on something... probably an improvement for his low% ice beam route run.
Posted: 2/20/2012 11:23 AM
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Cpadolf
Skilled player (1444)
Joined: 7/15/2007
Posts: 1468
Location: Sweden
SNES TASer of 2009 Rookie of 2008 SNES TASer of 2008
I think an any% run for Redesign would be more likely since he never submitted his last one.
Agare Bagare Kopparslagare
Posted: 2/20/2012 11:32 AM
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Reeve
Joined: 5/12/2009
Posts: 748
Location: Brazil
Yeah, you're probably right. His run was amazing. I think he didn't submited it due to that long pause screen to manipulate luck. Hopefully he is working on something.
Posted: 2/20/2012 11:43 PM
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amaurea
Former player
Joined: 2/19/2007
Posts: 424
Location: UK
I, too, hope he's working on a super metroid redesign improvement (and then proceeds to make both the new and old .smv available so I can make a comparison encode for them!). I have heard a few rumors that he's working on an improvement. But then, I also heard that Taco and Kriole were working on the same thing from the same source, so I don't think that source is very reliable. Still, I'm sure either the current or an improved super metroid redesign tas would be a strong contender for TAS of the year if submitted.
Posted: 2/24/2012 12:20 PM
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Reeve
Joined: 5/12/2009
Posts: 748
Location: Brazil
Can you guys find a way to make this strategy work? If so it will save more than 50 frames, maybe a second. It seems the biggest problem would be the Floating Ball type creature coming from the ceiling, but remember that you'll have Charge + Wave that could be used here (if it makes any difference). Also, i found interesting how this yellow door can be oppened without the PB blast even getting close to it. Does anybody know why this happens and if it happens with any other doors? Edit: After thinking about that a little bit, it could be possible to use that speedkeeping trick that Cp used to compare with the usual strategy, but using a Wraparound in the end. The Floating Ball creature would be no problem since you shoot it with a missile when going to the left, then a charged Wave can be used during the jump before the morphball for the speedkeeping trick and then a missile and a super missile for the next enemy. The Echoes appear before the second enemy and he will be killed with it. The last two enemies will be killed with a slighty higher jump and this strat will be probably more than one second faster. This was the strat that was going to be used anyway, right? I just thought that this strat could only be used with the Wrap Around... forget about it, i'm a dumb. Edit2: For better visualization, here is what i'm talking about. I didn't shot the floating ball creature. It seems this strategy will save ammo too. smv o.O
Posted: 2/25/2012 8:21 PM
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hero_of_the_day
Player (89)
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
The power bomb thing is very interesting. I do not think I have seen that done before. Do you know if it requires a special placement in that room, or is the area pretty broad for when it will still work? As for the WS, are you referring to the speed maintaining technique when morphballing into the electric spark on the ground?
They're off to find the hero of the day...
Posted: 2/25/2012 9:15 PM
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Reeve
Joined: 5/12/2009
Posts: 748
Location: Brazil
Regarding the Power Bomb, i tried placing it as high as i could in that spot, and if i have placed the bomb higher than that, it would not open the door. I didn't try placing it more to the left, it could be possible. If you use frame advance, you can see that the PB blast is very far from the door when it starts openning. Regarding the WS Attic, sorry about that, logic failed me. When you first posted the speedkeeping trick, considering you didn't worry to kill the enemies in the way to the right, i thought it was a strategy where you'd have to clean the room as in the any% version, because the high speed wouldn't let you kill all enemies in the way when going to the right. Then after i posted i realized that your intention was just to post the trick for visualization and that it was possible to kill all enemies in the way still keeping high speed.
Posted: 3/2/2012 9:26 PM
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Reeve
Joined: 5/12/2009
Posts: 748
Location: Brazil
Found two little strats that could be useful. The first one is about the Maridia route change, specifically when getting the damage from the Crawler. I found it can be done around 12+ frames faster. smv The other one is for Norfair, for the room before Crocomire's entrance room. It's possible to be 20+ frames faster there in exchange of 1 super and around 5 health points. The super may not be a problem since you'll have Charge + Wave + Spazer for Croc. smv Edit: I have the impression that i saw this damage boost before, though i don't remember where. Maybe i'm mistaken.
Posted: 3/2/2012 10:50 PM
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Cpadolf
Skilled player (1444)
Joined: 7/15/2007
Posts: 1468
Location: Sweden
SNES TASer of 2009 Rookie of 2008 SNES TASer of 2008
I tihnk the norfair one can be problematic to implement due to health restraints (and possible due to ammo restraints as well), but it's impossible to tell before getting there. The Maridia one seems solid though. Very nice improvement.
Agare Bagare Kopparslagare
Posted: 3/2/2012 10:57 PM
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hero_of_the_day
Player (89)
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
Dude these are both excellent SMVs! The first one is a great improvement over the maridia route I posted. This makes the change in route even more justifiable. The norfair one is much like the one Kriole used in his old RBo run, except you did it much faster. You managed to do it without morphballing. It should definitely be added to the next 100% run.
They're off to find the hero of the day...
Posted: 3/3/2012 1:00 AM
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Reeve
Joined: 5/12/2009
Posts: 748
Location: Brazil
Cpadolf wrote:
I tihnk the norfair one can be problematic to implement due to health restraints (and possible due to ammo restraints as well), but it's impossible to tell before getting there.
I think the biggest problem would be the Super Missile, cause in the smv i lost only 4 points of health up to the point where the smv stops. That's because, even though i took 10 health of damage in the two wallcrawling creatures, as Samus was pushed faster to the left, when she reaches the point where the smv stops, she lost only 4 health points more than in the current 100% run, maybe could be less if optimized.
Cpadolf wrote:
The Maridia one seems solid though. Very nice improvement.
hero of the day wrote:
Dude these are both excellent SMVs!
Thanks guys!
hero of the day wrote:
The first one is a great improvement over the maridia route I posted. This makes the change in route even more justifiable. The norfair one is much like the one Kriole used in his old RBo run, except you did it much faster. You managed to do it without morphballing. It should definitely be added to the next 100% run.
That would be very cool!
Posted: 3/4/2012 1:30 PM
(Edited: 3/4/2012 4:18 PM)
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Reeve
Joined: 5/12/2009
Posts: 748
Location: Brazil
Interesting. Remember that trick Saturn found to "teleport" for the upper part of the crumble block to get the Missile Pack in GT's room? Well, don't know if you guys tested it already, but it saves 2+ frames when going through the ceiling in Wrecked Ship. I think there's not much places other than Wrecked Ship, but you could possible use it too in that PB room in Pink Brinstar, when going for the alternative route. Don't know if it would save any time there though. smv Edit: Managed to make it 1 more frame faster, so it's 3 frames saved now. The smv link above is updated now. Thinking about it, the Double Kago Room after Ridley can benefit from this trick too when you reach the top after passing through the last Spiked Platform. Another place that benefits from this trick is Maridia, when going for the Snail shortcut to pick up the Missile pack and the Super Missile. So everytime you go through a solid block you can save around 3 frames. That's pretty cool. Also, i think it would work when going up through the two Spiked platforms as well if you jump through them while invencible.
Posted: 3/4/2012 4:07 PM
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hero_of_the_day
Player (89)
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
Nice little time saver indeed. This is something that otherwise probably would have been overlooked. Thanks for posting it.
They're off to find the hero of the day...
Posted: 3/7/2012 5:45 AM
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Reeve
Joined: 5/12/2009
Posts: 748
Location: Brazil
Don't know if you guys tested this strategy already, but it's possible to use a Blue Ball instead of a Power Bomb to destroy that block next to the Gravity Statue, after collecting the Reserve Tank. Though, obviously, you have to stop Samus and charge a Super Short Charge. It's a cool trick. If you guys can test it and see if it's at least equally fast, it would be nice to use it for entertainment and to avoid the Power Bomb lag. smv Edit: Nevermind. A quick test suggests it would be almost one second slower.
Posted: 3/8/2012 3:25 AM
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hero_of_the_day
Player (89)
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
Why would you need to stop samus and do a super short charge? You can run all the way from the left side of the room and simply press the b button 4 times to activate the blue suit. Did you run your test using this method? It might be faster if you did it this way, and may actually save time over the PB method.
They're off to find the hero of the day...
Posted: 3/8/2012 4:50 AM
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Reeve
Joined: 5/12/2009
Posts: 748
Location: Brazil
Sorry about the Super Short Charge, you don't actually press down + B, you just press B in the end to get the echoes. The way i did was start running from a certain position (X) pressing B in the needed frames to activate Samus's echoes to break the blocks and then i performed the blue ball and reached the door in a certain frame. I caltulated the time needed for that and compared to the current 100% run strategy. I calculated the time from the same position (X) to the door in the current run and it took around 45 frames less, iirc. Maybe i'm not using the right strategy to test it, though. Edit: Managed to save 8+ frames over the current strategy for the 100% run in the PB pack room before entering the gauntlet. It can probably be better optimized. smv Edit 2: I have good and bad news. The good one is i found a small time saver (3 frames in-game time i think) and it adds a "new" trick to the run. The bad news is you have to use a Power Bomb for it to work, so it will add some lag frames. Also the PB Blast covers what Samus is doing, so you can't really see the "new" trick. XD Unless you press "9" on your keyboard and disable the Transparency Effect, so there's no Power Bomb Blast. The smv i'm posting is actually 1 frame faster, but the reason i think it can save 3 frames is i couldn't make Samus complete her unmorphing animation in the frame she touches the ground. Instead she touches the ground and completly unmorph after 2 frames. Anyway, see the smv below. smv Edit 3: I had an idea that was supposed to be much faster than the smv i'm posting, though for some reason the X-Ray doesn't work for a turn around right after Unmorphing. I don't know if it would be anyfaster anyway. smv
Posted: 3/12/2012 5:02 PM
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Cpadolf
Skilled player (1444)
Joined: 7/15/2007
Posts: 1468
Location: Sweden
SNES TASer of 2009 Rookie of 2008 SNES TASer of 2008
That WS strat was pretty cool. Really counter intuitive as the PB breaks the block slower, so it's very nice that you found this. I think Taco found the post R-tank blueball strategy a while ago, and IIRC it should be faster if optimized. And Hero posted about that X-ray blueball in norfair, and found that it was slower.
Agare Bagare Kopparslagare
Posted: 3/13/2012 1:24 AM
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Reeve
Joined: 5/12/2009
Posts: 748
Location: Brazil
Regarding the usage of Power Bomb, i thought that Samus would have more time to charge the beam to morph and unmorph in mid air. My concern was that the Power Bomb would take too much time to destroy the block, but in the end it was just 3 frames (iirc) slower than the improved version. I think i missed Taco's and hero's post about this. It will be great if the blue ball after the R-Tank turns out to be faster. Edit: A bomb spread would probably be faster, but you would loose time to charge the bombs before getting into the statue's hands.
Posted: 4/10/2012 4:05 PM
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Reeve
Joined: 5/12/2009
Posts: 748
Location: Brazil
Long time i don't post here. Found another improvement over the current 100% run. If i calculated right the smv is 45 frames faster, but it can be improved. Pie Also, I found a way to be some frames faster in Wrecked Ship, but at a maybe high cost. You need a damage boost for the strategy to work and there's already too much shinesparks and damageboosts, so maybe it's not worth. Anyway i'll post the smv. The smv is just equally fast, but that's because the door is not opened, so i couldn't armpump all the way. The way i see it working is to open the door as soon as you enter, right after shooting a missle in the robot or something like that. smv Now I have a question: Regarding that trick/glitch that allows Samus to stand/run in the air after a Grapple Swing and morphball, it seems that the game "thinks" that Samus is in solid ground or something like that, anyway, can you set Samus in a position that when you unmorph she is crouching and a little bit inside the ceiling, so you can jump through it?
Posted: 4/11/2012 12:34 PM
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Cpadolf
Skilled player (1444)
Joined: 7/15/2007
Posts: 1468
Location: Sweden
SNES TASer of 2009 Rookie of 2008 SNES TASer of 2008
It is possible to do a crouch jump out of the grapple glitch, but there shouldn't be any way to get lodged into a ceiling in such a way to be able to jump through it. Was there a particular place you were thinking about? Nice improvement on the LN entry. The WS one I'm more unsure about, it'll depend on energy concerns before the gauntlet shinespark.
Agare Bagare Kopparslagare
Posted: 4/11/2012 1:08 PM
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Reeve
Joined: 5/12/2009
Posts: 748
Location: Brazil
Regarding grapple idea, if it was possible, you could swing in that one grapple block before springball, going to the room in the right, then use th e glitch to go up till Samus pass the ceiling. It would avoid having to wait for the grapple block to desapear and would probably be faster.
Posted: 4/11/2012 8:02 PM
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Kriole
Experienced player (869)
Joined: 11/26/2007
Posts: 400
Location: Sueeden
Lucky TAS of 2012 GBA TAS of 2010 Lucky TAS of 2010 GBx TAS of 2009
Pie Closest I could get after a few tries... it's 13312 subpixels away from being perfect but if those last subpixels do the trick I'll be damned.
Posted: 4/11/2012 9:01 PM
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Cpadolf
Skilled player (1444)
Joined: 7/15/2007
Posts: 1468
Location: Sweden
SNES TASer of 2009 Rookie of 2008 SNES TASer of 2008
I tried it without high-jump which allowed me to get slightly closer to the ceiling on the frame before the jump due to the lower speed (450.6something vs 451.4something in Y position, with the next frame also being about 13000 subpixels away from touching the roof), but couldn't get through with that either.
Agare Bagare Kopparslagare
Posted: 4/11/2012 10:06 PM
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hero_of_the_day
Player (89)
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
wow, nice improvements Eye Of The Beholder. That maridia trick would save some serious time if it proves possible.
They're off to find the hero of the day...
Posted: 4/12/2012 3:20 PM
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Reeve
Joined: 5/12/2009
Posts: 748
Location: Brazil
I PMed Cpadolf about this, but i thought it would be better to post here as well for whoever have the time to test. When i freeze the creature in the corner to jump through the ceiling, Samus is in Vertical position 195 when crouching on the creature and her vertical positiion changes to 182 when her animation changes after pressing jump, and she goes through the ceiling. In the smv Kriole posted he jumped from the same vertical position (195), but when samus changed the animation she only went to 185. My guess is that, as she had still speed going up, when she changed the animation she instantly touched the ceiling and couldn't go through it, but maybe if you reach the required position with zero momentum in the moment of the jump (smv for demonstration), she could go through the ceiling.
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