I am thorn on the new glitches.
Firstly, I really do like the cutsceneskips after beating a temple. That is simply amazing.
Secondly, "The faraoes wind straight to credits skip" worries me. If I was playing OoT as a kid and randomly wanted to see a video of how fast the game could be beaten (which was the case when I first stumbled upon this site), I would not be satisfied with a video that got to the credits without beating the final boss. (Why not is another discussion). And it is my impression that the majority of casual videogame enthusiasts would feel the same way.
However, the more educated followers of runs do not share this concern. So to me it seems to be a question of evaluating what audience you want to focus on.
I wouldn't have a problem with this replacing RBA. Enterntainment-wise, OoT-any% isn't too popular anyway.
But the rules for MST should be changed, so that you have to fight Ganondorf and Ganon. Here on this site it's called "all quests" for a reason. Fighting the final boss is definitely part of Links quest.
Current project: Gex 3 any%
Paused: Gex 64 any%
There are no N64 emulators. Just SM64 emulators with hacky support for all the other games.
MST already bans RBA and BA, and without the two you can only do 3 warps.
Fire Temple --> Forest Temple
Deku Tree --> Dodongo's Cavern
Dodongo's Cavern --> Gerudo Training Grounds
These warps save a bit of time, but really not more than a few minutes max. You can do these warps in MST since they are based on death and not Farore's Wind on B. The main point of this stuff without BA is to skip cutscenes, so there is little reason to ban it. Ganon must be fought in all temples.
God, tasvideos gets on my nerves some times. It's not like this is going to be 20 minutes faster or change the route that much.
Besides having anything be faster than any% is just stupid. Any% means by definition completing the game as fast as possible, by any means necessary.
I know we have quite a few runs on this site that are faster than the any%, doesn't make it less stupid
Synx wrote:
Secondly, "The faraoes wind straight to credits skip" worries me. If I was playing OoT as a kid and randomly wanted to see a video of how fast the game could be beaten (which was the case when I first stumbled upon this site), I would not be satisfied with a video that got to the credits without beating the final boss. (Why not is another discussion). And it is my impression that the majority of casual videogame enthusiasts would feel the same way.
However, the more educated followers of runs do not share this concern. So to me it seems to be a question of evaluating what audience you want to focus on.
The OoT any% isn't stared precisely because it's way too glitched for casual viewers already. So we are way past appealing to them.
Any% means by definition completing the game as fast as possible, by any means necessary.
Problem is that "completing the game" needs a clear definition.
I agree with Wyster. In my opinion, the game should have 2 diffrent categories because one is defeating ganon, while the other glitch let us skip to the credits. but if most people agree that glitching the credits is the same as beating ganon, then I don't mind this glitched run to obsolete the current any% run.
I totally disagree about creating a new category.
Why don't you listen to the pro-OoT guys? They know what they are talking about. any% won't change enough to warrant a new category. That's it.
I totally disagree about creating a new category.
Why don't you listen to the pro-OoT guys? They know what they are talking about. any% won't change enough to warrant a new category. That's it.
Seriously. Even if the site does decide to make it a new category, everywhere else is gonna refer to it as the any%, which means this site is gonna have two renditions of the any% published, which will look ridiculous.
I don't see the problem with obsoletion... This is similar to the SMW situation in that it doesn't fight the final boss, but dissimilar in that it has more gameplay. Also, the current any% is nothing like what the designers expected for a quick completion anyway.
ALSO, this debate here an now is going to be forgotten by the time the run is completed and will be repeated in the submission thread so no point in arguing for 6 pages right now :P
To me, the obvious categories are 100% or MST, no BA/RBA any%, and glitched any%. "Partially glitched any%" isn't really a reasonable category, so just like with SML2, the glitched any% should obsolete the current any%.
Any% means by definition completing the game as fast as possible, by any means necessary.
Problem is that "completing the game" needs a clear definition.
Da rules clearly state that a game is completed when it shows "the end" or an aquivalent, when it doesn't have "the end". That's really clear cut and I think the rules have been there for about ten years. Curious that you never read them...
Da rules clearly state that a game is completed when it shows "the end" or an aquivalent, when it doesn't have "the end". That's really clear cut
I think the point of contention is that the rules also clearly state "It must beat the game." So, "Is just satisfying the_end/credits requirement enough for the game to be considered beaten?" follows with no clear answer and movies where this distinction needs to be made are always case-by-case judgements. And everyone has an opinion.
It's actually really clear. The point under "it must beat the game" just clarifys what is considered beating it and that point states "It must be able to reach the credits or end screen without the viewer needing to do anything; all input must come solely from the input file (e.g. configuring the emulator to autofire after the end of playback is not allowed). "
If the game shows "the end" it's beaten. That is a clear definition, that is in the rules. We deal in clear definitions here, we are not SDA, who time from "first getting control" to "last hit to last boss" or something.
You guys are a riot sometimes.
Seeing the end credits = beating the game. This doesn't change just because you want to see the final boss beaten or feel such an ending is anti-climatic.
This warping shouldn't be a separate run either. It's as much a "major" glitch as RBA is, and so it should fall under the any% category. As others have been saying, if you want to see a more complete run, watch an all dungeons run. There's no use clogging the site with uselessly arbitrary categories, otherwise we'll have stupidity like "All dungeons, no RBA, uses warps, acquires 13 skultulas, puts mask of truth on B".
You guys are a riot sometimes.
Seeing the end credits = beating the game. This doesn't change just because you want to see the final boss beaten or feel such an ending is anti-climatic.
This warping shouldn't be a separate run either. It's as much a "major" glitch as RBA is, and so it should fall under the any% category. As others have been saying, if you want to see a more complete run, watch an all dungeons run. There's no use clogging the site with uselessly arbitrary categories, otherwise we'll have stupidity like "All dungeons, no RBA, uses warps, acquires 13 skultulas, puts mask of truth on B".
Couldn't have put it better myself. I don't think I've ever watched a recorded(non-live) run beyond the LACS, because from there on is boring natural route(bar trials skip) and cutscenes. This new route has gameplay and wtf factor right up to the last input. I also think that since the best route seems to use the LACS to BA FW on B, it would be clear to any viewer that it would be possible to go up to ganon and kill him/thats what is expected. If people wanted to watch dungeons/the final fight, they'd probably watch the all dungeons TAS anyway. The only thing that's kind of sad is that Trials skip isn't used in any category now xD.
I'm okay with it obsoleting the existing RBA run, but I have a bit of a problem with this future glitched run inheriting the RBA'S 'category-less' status. Perhaps we could specifically move this to 'glitched' and move the 'all dungeons' run over to the category-less slot, as that would be a bit more... 'standard', I guess?
First a movie gets submitted, and ends up accepted despite breaking rules other runs have been rejected for. And when I vote less than spectacularly on this movie, I become the victim of harassment and threats.
Yay, favoritism.
I'm usually for new categories, the only downside is you have slightly more clutter, but that's not a problem for any of us which understand what the different categories will entail.
I think any time you use a glitch to skip end credits instead of activating the end credits the intended way should warrant a new category. I'd make this a universal rule of speedrunning.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
I can agree with the sentiment that an any% no RBA run should be the 'categoryless' one, and an RBA run (ganonless or not) should be "glitched", but by no means should ganonless and RBA without it be separate.
Holy crap people. Lets wait and actually see the run, and what tricks are used.
If RBA to get whatever is replacing the RBA to get the medallions, then it probably won't deserve a different category. Additionally, from what the actual TASers have been saying, the route isn't even fully planned yet.
I'm not making a decision yet, and neither should the rest of you. Speculation leading to intense arguing at this point is silly.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
I always felt like there should be categories on a per-goal basis (100% vs any%), and within those, subcategories based on how the goal is achieved (few/no glitches, BA/RBA, this warp-straight-to-the-credits glitch, etc).
CosmoZSR wrote:
that screenshot was mine, done on console.
Can we really call VC "done on console"? It's still an emulator, not really any different than those on PC. A little more accurate, but even then, not very. (It doesn't even emulate the RSP, for instance; it uses HLE just like PC emulators do.)
The difference is VC is a console, while something done with a PC doesn't have the same standardize hardware. It's not about whether it's the same as N64, it's clearly not, neither is GC, the new hand held version. It is however a console with it's own category that is the same for everyone. This isn't a TAS matter either.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
I fear for the people of Hyrule if you guys leave Ganondorf free to terrorize the land!
Anyways... I am looking forward to the all temples TAS. Is that still being released?
