This topic is for the purpose of discussing #3429: Scepheo's Windows Eversion "Bad Ending" in 02:38.85

Umm... maybe I'm missing something, but I really don't get what's going on with this game. A quick look at Wikipedia explained some more about the game, but it's still fairly unclear why eversion is necessary. The imagery is amusingly disturbing. However, I don't know if this game has enough technical merit to yield a publishable run. I figure that Syobon Action didn't make it, and this is less impressive technically than Syobon Action. I'm not sure about how I feel about this yet, though, so I'm not voting yet. (Arguably, this is also more amusing in a WTF way than a Syobon Action speedrun.)

This was.. um.. short.. and that's all I can positively say about it. This was incredibly boring and looks nothing like a TAS at all. I mean even the glitch made it look like someones superplay that abused a glitch. Nothing stood out as amazing or jawdropping, the music got annoying very quickly.. especially the constant changes. It has its moments, but yeah. The only time this even remotely got near a MEH rating was the ending, and only because it was mildly amusing. A 100% run of this would probably = more of the same reasons to vote no, with a possibility of MEH if the ending was entertaining. Sorry.. not my cup of tea.. No vote. Mr. Kelly R. Flewin

As much as I love Eversion, I have to agree that doing a bad ending TAS is not the best choice. The floating glitch was somewhat interesting, but not aiming for the good ending really ruins a lot of the magic of the game, especially since you don't get to see the true final level. Also, mklip2001, everting causes certain objects to become solid, others to become non-soild, and some to become hurtful, blocks to become breakable (either from hitting them below or even just standing on them), and those hands to pop out of the ground. There's a lot of interesting changes that make it a nice puzzle game, though this TAS doesn't show that aspect very well.

[8:14:04 PM] DarkMoon: 100% would've been substantially better [8:14:23 PM] Kaizoman: any% in Eversion is essentially just some running and jumping Sums my thoughts up nicely.

Scepheo, it would be nice if in your submission text you explained how eversion works for the newbies, and how you pulled off that floating glitch. I suppose any% is too simple a goal for this game, though I'm not sure I totally agree with Kelly that a TAS needs to "look like a TAS". One note I remember from playing this myself was that the gem counter at the beginning of level 7 doesn't update until you re-enter the level, which forces you to quit back to the title and re-select level 7 to access the 7-8 portal if you get your last gem there. That's probably the only time that restarting a level helps you anyway, but it's a good technique to keep in mind. Also don't forget to look up maps of the game (There's even a level editor you can use!), as you may find an eversion portal you didn't know about, like the 5-6 portals situated over thorn pits which require a bit of good timing to use safely. And be on the lookout for portals whose area extends a bit beyond where you were intended to be able to reach them from, like the 2-3 portal in level 7 you can touch from the underside. As for luck manipulation... I think the flying hands pick random altitudes? Oh yeah, do you think any other version of this game deserves a run of some kind? The earlier versions have a different level 8 with forced eversions to random layers, and other little things were changed, like I think you could run past the right edge of the screen when you're chased by bubbles and get hidden for a while; I wonder what happens if you go far enough like that.

I didn't grow up playing this game, and TBH it looks horrid and is boring to watch.

I didn't grow up playing this game, and TBH it looks horrid and is boring to watch.

The game is pretty new.

Too bad, a game can only be good if you grew up playing it!

I didn't grow up playing this game, and TBH it looks horrid and is boring to watch.

It's considerably more fun to play than it is to watch.

In world 6, at around 1:56, you run into the wall. Why? Is it impossible to use the levitation glitch here? edit: Looks like the levitation glitch requires the obstacle to be 1 tile above you? Also, I'd much rather see a good-ending run.

Voting no for bad game choice and bad goal: - The game physics are too simplistic for a TAS. Except for the hovering glitch and the level end fanfare skipping, it looks too close to a normal speedrun. - The evolving art design goes by so quickly it cannot be appreciated, and it's the core appeal of the game. - The gameplay is designed around going through eversion layers in your advantage to progress, but you skip all that since your goal isn't the good ending. The result is a much more boring route.

I didn't grow up playing this game, and TBH it looks horrid and is boring to watch.

The game is pretty new.

I think Riddim is saying that there's no nostalgia filter in place to make any remotely well-made TAS of this game publication-worthy.

Umm... maybe I'm missing something, but I really don't get what's going on with this game. A quick look at Wikipedia explained some more about the game, but it's still fairly unclear why eversion is necessary.

When you everse (I think that's what they call it), the world changes a bit, including the blocks. The first time you everse, there is a block in the way that becomes passable after you everse. You also can only everse in certain spots, which make the screen slightly brighter or slightly darker when you stand in them, IIRC. You couldn't see any of this because the TAS was fast, and the time it took for things to go from cheerful to evil was fast too (while it's gradual when playing the game normally). As for the run itself... it was kind of boring to me. Maybe a 100% run would be better? At least it will make it a bit more clear that the transition to cheerful to... whatever that was... more gradual

I do think the game is worthy enough of a TAS, but a good ending run would've done the game a lot more justice. It was nice to see a TAS, but I was very disappointed when I realized you weren't going for all gems. For the moment, I will refrain from voting, because I hate to vote 'no' on a TAS I actually like. Please do make a 100% run, I'm sure people will be a lot more enthusiastic towards it. //Also, I'd like to see an earlier version with the original Cocoron music more, but that's just me

There's a very short "warp" at around 5:54 in this LP: Link to video You should see if you can reproduce it and find out whether there are any other uses for it.

I've never seen a movie where all three options were in such a dead heat! (Currently stands at 7/7/6). I voted yes, because I'm a notorious inclusionist. This is a good run of a game many people are interested in; I wasn't blown away by watching it but it's very short and it gave me a feel for an interesting game I knew nothing about, and it costs us very little to host it. And who knows, perhaps some game-breaking glitch awaits a future researcher, and they will be significantly more motivated to find it if the game wasn't already rejected.

There's a very short "warp" at around 5:54 in this LP:

That's the old version, and it happens because the random eversions allow the character to be standing inside something that's solid in the next eversion layer, which causes him to be shot up through the wall to the next open space.

There's actually 3 possible goals for this game: (my vote would go to 100% too) - Any%, bad ending (the shortest, but doesn't even finish the game) - Any%, good ending (you can use another glitch to evert to 6-8 and 7-8, then access world 8 without all gems) - 100%, good ending (much more planning and running around yet still short) The evert glitch also makes world 8 much shorter and more interesting. I had test runs for both good endings (any% in 4:01, 100% in 9:27), and an unfinished improvement for 100% that would have been under 9 minutes ...

This is a very famous PC game, so I would love to see a run of this on the site. I don't see how the graphics should be a problem; we have lots of NES games up that look similar or worse. That said, a run that reaches the good ending would be much better to watch, either a true 100% or using the "stage 8 without all gems" glitch mentioned above.

I was bored out of my mind with this TAS. I am voting no for goal choice, possibly even game choice.

You see what your bad goal choice has done, Scepheo? You're making people believe this is a bad game!

I'm sorry, but I don't see the point of this. Just one look at the game made me quickly make up my mind. And the fact you went for the quickest ending, rather than the 100% run, has solidified my NO vote in stone.

This run made me curious enough to download the game and get the bad and good endings on it. Overall, it's a fun little puzzle platformer with cute visuals and nice music. Occasionally frustrating with some of the jumps and getting all 240 gems, but nothing too bad. So thanks for that! That being said, the speedrun was neither exciting nor impressive. Actually, I think the 100% run would be even worse on both counts. Voting no.