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This is a TAS of Cave Story (Doukutsu Monogatari) for Windows.

Game objectives / info

  • Emulator used: None. But I used Hourglass 77
  • Game version: [dead link removed], without translation patch.
  • Gets best ending
  • Aims for fastest time
  • Manipulates luck
  • Takes damage to save time

About the game

Cave Story is a free Windows game. It is very fun (way up there with Super Mario Bros. 3, in my opinion) and well-made (albeit quite "retro"). I suggest reading about it here, and then downloading it from here and playing it, if you haven't played it yet. And all of your usual excuses for not playing it are invalid: It's free to download (legally), it has been translated to English and several other languages (in case you don't read Japanese), and it has been ported to Mac OS and Linux (if you don't use Windows).
The actual gameplay has similarities to Metroid, including upgrades throughout the game. You can also think of it as a platformer action game with RPG elements (somewhat like Popful Mail, for example), but with more shooting than slashing. But really, it's its own unique mix of things.

Why I made this movie

As you can probably tell from the above, I appreciate this game, and so I thought it deserved to have a good TAS made of it (and I was certain the game is deep enough for that to be possible). I even made Hourglass partly for this purpose (although for some reason I hadn't thought about TASing this game myself until recently). And it seemed like some people were holding their breath for this TAS to happen before considering other Windows games, or something like that, so I thought I'd try making a Cave Story TAS really quickly to get it over with, even though there are probably all sorts of other things I should be doing instead. It turned out I was totally wrong in thinking that it would be either fast or easy to TAS this game, but it's finally done now.

How to watch this movie

If you have a computer with Windows on it:
  • Download Hourglass r77
  • Download the game [dead link removed]
  • Unzip all three of the above things you just downloaded.
  • In the unzipped game folder, open DoConfig.exe and set it to "640x480 Windowed" (the 3rd option in the bottom box), just in case. Then click OK (2nd button from the bottom-right).
  • Open hourglass.exe.
  • Click "Browse..." on the bottom-right and browse to doukutsu.exe in the unzipped game folder.
  • Click "Browse..." on the top-right and browse to the unzipped movie file (the extension should be . or .hgm).
  • Click the "Run and Play Existing Movie" button on the bottom right, and wait a bit.
OR
  • Just watch somebody's encode, if you're feeling lazy or if you don't have Windows. I assume someone with more experience at encoding videos will upload a better one, but I put up a downloadable encode for now, which should be decent enough. Also there is a YouTube encode (thanks Dada), although I dislike how YouTube's framerate limitations make the game look so unsmooth.

Some of the Tricks Used

Jumping to control speed

Speed on the ground oscillates rather than staying capped at a maximum. By decelerating in the air, the speed can be tweaked such that the oscillation peaks at a higher value on the ground. Jumping again can then freeze the oscillation at that maximum speed until landing. This is why I tend to stay in the air as much as possible.

Horizontal Enemy Boosting

Until I get the Booster 2.0, I'm normally limited to a maximum speed of 845, but by lowering my speed to below 512 and then clipping the corner of an enemy, the enemy pushes me forward and I can reach speeds of up to 1023. This is usually very difficult to do, since it requires hitting an exact position on a moving enemy and reaching a specific velocity value at the same time. This trick is why I get hit so much early on in the game (to push myself forward faster than normal and save a bunch of frames every time). Note that it only works on certain types of enemies, because not all enemies have the type of solid collision that can push the player around.

Invulnerability Reset

Normally the player blinks for a while after getting hit and can't get hit again during that time, but some things (such as the end of a boss round) can reset the invulnerability time and allow you to immediately get hit again. Most importantly, opening the menu resets your invulnerability. This was used to get hit twice in a row by a bat to skip a bunch of backtracking in Grasstown. I didn't discover this trick.

Button Control via Menu

By opening the menu and varying what buttons I hold while closing the menu, I can cause a button to count as a new press on two consecutive frames, or alternatively, I can cause a button to go from unpressed to held without counting as a new press. This can be used to do little tricks like boost right and then boost left on the next in-game frame, or jump and then boost on the next in-game frame, or stop boosting in the air and hold jump to go higher without starting to boost again, or fire certain weapons faster than normal by in-game time. This is why I cause the menu to flicker open occasionally near the end of the movie.

Automatic weapon fire abuse

The machine gun (and the bubbler, which I don't get) support automatic fire, which means you can hold the fire button and the gun will shoot a shot every 6 frames automatially. Like all other weapons, though, you can fire it manually up to once every 4 frames. By using the pattern "press, release, press, hold, release", the two methods of firing can be mixed together, allowing 2 shots to be fired every 5 frames. And it's possible to do even better than that: By firing a different weapon and simultaneously switching to the machine gun and holding fire for another frame, the other weapon will fire on the "press" and the machine gun will fire on the "hold", and two frames later the other weapon will be ready to fire again, which means you can shoot 2 shots every 4 frames if one of them is from the machine gun.

Optional Items Acquired

Life Expansion (+3)

  • This lets me survive 3-damage and 5-damage hits, and do damage boosts a little more often.
  • I get the very first one in the game, and skip all others after that since they were determined not to help any further in a TAS.
  • Rough time estimate: saved 20+ seconds.

Missile Launcher

  • This has high damage output, which saves time on several bosses.
  • It starts with only 10 missiles and runs out of ammo fast, but luck manipulation makes that not a problem.
  • Getting this is a requirement for getting the Super Missile Launcher later, which is even better.
  • Rough time estimate: saved 6+ seconds plus the benefits of Super Missiles.

Machine Gun

  • High damage, lets me fly, AND manipulates luck well.
  • This goes well with the Booster 2.0 too, letting me move diagonally while still boosting at full speed.
  • Automatic and manual fire can be mixed to fire it super fast and/or overlay damage over another weapon by firing in-between its shots.
  • Rough time estimate: saved 200+ seconds minus whatever much smaller amount might be saved by getting the Snake or Spur later on.

Super Missile Launcher

  • Extremely high damage output, and the longest-ranged weapon.
  • Rough time estimate: saved 30+ seconds.

Missile Expansion (+5)

  • I grab one of these since it's directly in my path and doesn't play the long "got item" tune either.
  • It came in handy a couple of times, but I think it basically just broke even.
  • Rough time estimate: saved 0 seconds.

Missile Expansion (+24)

  • This lets me spam super missiles in the last couple of boss fights.
  • Rough time estimate: saved 5+ seconds.

Boss Fights

Igor

  • I only have the Polar Star at this point, so I just shoot it as fast as possible.

Balrog 2

  • By now I have the Fireball, which does more damage per shot than the Polar Star, so I shoot fireballs as fast as possible instead.

Balfrog

  • Defeated in 2 rounds.
  • The trick here is to wait a few frames for him to stop shaking so he doesn't instantly close his mouth when I do enough damage, then use all of my weapons together (missiles included) to force extra damage through before the next time he checks his health again in a few frames.

Curly

  • She's immune to missiles, so I use my next strongest weapon at this point, fireballs.
  • The mimigas love to get in the way, but I managed to avoid wasting any shots on them.
  • The way I fight Curly should get me killed, but I stay 1 pixel away from her "shoot up" triggerbox.

Omega

  • Defeated in first round (before he goes underground)
  • This is the first boss fight where I have the machine gun.
  • I mix 2-shots-per-5-frames machinegun fire with 2-shots-per-4-frames fireball+machinegun fire.
  • I could kill this boss faster by standing closer to it, but then I'd have to walk further to get out of the boss room, which would take longer.

Toroko+

  • I use up all of my missiles, and shoot mixed machinegun+fireball in-between those.
  • She has good aim with those blocks, which would kill me instantly, so I take damage beforehand to avoid wasting time dodging them.

Pooh Black

  • Defeated in first round (before he jumps up)
  • First boss fight where I have the Blade, which does a lot of the damage here although that happens too fast to see it.
  • I don't level up the Blade before this fight, because the level 2 Blade does much less damage here than the level 1 Blade (because of the black bubble shield he has).
  • Like Omega, I could kill this boss faster, but it's more important to head towards the door first since I need to leave the room after the fight.

Monster X

  • Defeated in 3 rounds. 5 or more rounds would be normal.
  • Similar strategy to the Balfrog fight, except I don't have to wait for him to stop shaking.

Balrog 4

  • Mixed level 2 sword + level 3 machinegun makes this a very loud (and fast) battle.

The Core

  • Defeated in 3 rounds. 5 or more rounds would be normal.
  • This boss slowly drifts to a position to the right of you, so I have to move around in a weird way to keep him in reach of my shots.
  • I drowned as early as I could while still beating the boss in 3 rounds. Maybe there's a way to get in the water a lot faster and still do enough damage in round 1, but I couldn't find it.

Ironhead

  • I can't aim in this boss fight, which makes it hard to do enough damage before he escapes to the right.
  • He moves too fast for missiles to work well (since he outruns the explosions), but they still help a little in a TAS.
  • He enters the fight after what seems to be a random delay, but I managed to make him appear pretty early.
  • Touching him is deadly, but his collision shape is wierd.

Ma Pignon

  • Over in 2 seconds with mixed machinegun + fireball.
  • This boss is immune to both missiles and swords.

Red Demon

  • Just passing through...

Misery

  • Defeated in 4 rounds.
  • Hitting her with 3 fireballs and a sword and a machine gun shot on the same frame is not easy, but I have to do really concentrated damage in a single frame at the beginning and end of each round in order to force this much damage through. Normally she only takes 80-ish damage per round, not 147.

The Doctor

  • Thanks to super missiles and the blade, he barely gets a chance to move either time. Usually he teleports around at least once.

Undead Core

  • Defeated in 5 rounds.
  • This is similar to the Misery fight in strategy, but missiles are more helpful here, since there's a larger surface area and a lower damage cap per round (I do 126 damage per 50-damage round, which is a lot of extra damage for a 2-frame window).
  • The Core waits for Sue/Misery to fall before starting round 2 (unless I wait a really long time), so I can't just ignore them. It isn't necessary to kill both of them though, but I did that anyway since there was enough extra time between rounds.

Heavy Press

  • More close-range super missile spam, combined with rapid fire support from Curly's Nemesis.

Ballos

  • I start the second stage far to the left so that the third stage will be as short as possible, since he has to reach the middle of the chamber in order to start the last stage.
  • The last form is super weak to super missiles. Good thing too, because I would take 10 damage if it took a little longer to kill him, and I don't have enough health to survive that.

Things that look like mistakes but aren't

Q: Why do you jump before giving Santa the key in Grasstown?
A: Because it's faster. If I stayed on the ground I would decelerate quickly, if I landed earlier I would decelerate earlier, and if I jumped lower I would pass too close to the corner and slow down. Santa does not wait for me to land on the ground.
Q: Why do you push against walls sometimes instead of perfectly clipping the corner?
A: Because Quote can still accumulate and maintain a certain amount (384) of speed while pushing against a wall. It doesn't reset speed to 0 in that case. If I can exceed 384 speed before reaching the corner then I'll do that instead of pushing against the wall, otherwise it's faster to push against it to have a better subpixel position upon clearing it.
Q: Why do you sometimes not "pre-jump" before falling over edges?
A: Because Quote can decelerate much faster on the ground than in the air, so in cases where I need to turn around (or avoid going forward) after dropping down a short distance, it's faster to slow down on the ground as much as possible before starting to fall.
Q: Why don't you shoot the machine gun up more to go faster downward?
A: Because I'm already falling as fast as possible. (Or, in certain rare situations, because I already have 5 shots in the air and can't shoot any more.) There is 1 actual mistake in Mimiga Village which I found after this TAS was submitted, but it only loses 1 or 2 frames (insignificant compared to the gains that someone making an improvement to this TAS should attempt to find) and isn't a systematic error.
Q: Why don't you use the booster more when you're going straight down?
A: Because boosting down sets me to maximum falling speed instantly. Boosting down for more than 1 frame would do nothing but waste fuel. It also prevents me from accelerating horizontally while doing so.
Q: Why don't you damage boost off of more types of enemies? For example, the purple critters in the Labyrinth.
A: Because they don't have collision I can boost off of. Despite looking like a palette swap of a different enemy that I can boost from, the purple critters don't have solid collision. Getting hit by enemies with non-solid collision can boost me upward, but never horizontally.
Q: What about the enemies you can damage boost off of? You skip them sometimes.
A: Early on, sometimes I skip them for health-management or weapon-experience-management reasons. Sometimes I skip them because they are in such an awkward position to damage boost from that it would actually be slower. Sometimes it looks like I skip them but actually don't (for example, I often boost off of 2 different enemies per time I get hit in Grasstown).
Q: Why do I sometimes see fireballs disappearing on their own instead of hitting an enemy?
A: Because they're a "piercing" type weapon if they hit an enemy without expending all of their damage potential, so they do their damage and then continue on and disappear later.
Q: Why do you shoot the machine gun so much even when you don't need it for air control? Sometimes you even shoot it horizontally at nothing.
A: Because every shot from the machine gun advances the RNG (random number generator), and I need to manipulate luck a lot.
Q: Why do you go to all that trouble with the Mimiga mask just to get them to move a stepping stool outside? Couldn't you have reached the Last Cave without it?
A: Because (unfortunately) the game has explicit sequence breaking prevention here: The door refuses to open until the rocket is functional, whether I need to use it or not.

Stage by stage comments

I made some commentary subtitles instead, so I could explain things as they're happening in the movie. I'm guessing you'll be able to find an encode of the movie that comes with subtitles in some way (if you're on YouTube, try clicking on the button that enables closed captioning), but the original subtitles file is here [dead link removed] in a format that most video players can display.

Some times

  • Total movie time: 50:10
  • Time until final boss dies: 48:51
  • Total in-game time: 27'14"4
  • In-game time in : 2'04"1

Memory addresses watched

  • 0049E66C d s 0 X velocity
  • 0049E670 d s 0 Y velocity
  • 0049E654 d u 0 X pos
  • 0049E658 d s 0 Y pos
  • 0049E664 d s 0 X cam offset
  • 0049E660 w s 0 Y cam offset
  • 0049E6B0 d h 0 flags
  • 0049E6CC w s 0 health
  • 0049E6E8 d s 0 booster fuel
  • 00499BCC b u 0 weapon 1 level
  • 00499BD0 b u 0 weapon 1 xp
  • 00499BE0 b u 0 weapon 2 level
  • 00499BE4 b u 0 weapon 2 xp
  • 00499BF4 b u 0 weapon 3 level
  • 00499BF8 b u 0 weapon 3 xp
  • 00499C08 b u 0 weapon 4 level
  • 00499C0C b u 0 weapon 4 xp
  • 0049E1EC d u 0 framecounter
  • 004A5ADC b s 0 event status
  • 004A5B00 d s 0 wait length
  • 004A5AFC d s 0 waited frames
  • 00499C00 w s 0 missiles
  • 00499BD8 w s 0 machinegun ammo
  • 004A5554 w s 0 mgunrefillcounter
  • 0049E650 w h 0 equipped
  • 004ADC74 d s 0 bat1ypos
  • 004AE684 d u 0 basilx
  • 004AE68C d s 0 basilxvel
  • 004B1950 d s 0 jelly time
  • 004B1980 d s 0 jelly dmg
  • 004B1920 d u 0 jelly hp
  • 004BBC9C w s 0 monsterxhp1
  • 004BBDF4 w s 0 monsterxhp2
  • 004BBD48 w s 0 monsterxhp3
  • 004BBEA0 w s 0 monsterxhp4
  • 004AE484 w u 0 fan1ypos
  • 004AEAC4 w u 0 door4hp
  • 004BBA60 w u 0 corex
  • 004BBA64 w u 0 corey
  • 004BBA6C w s 0 coreyvel
  • 004BBA98 w u 0 corehp
  • 004BBA3C w s 0 coreroundstarthp
  • 004AD748 w s 0 miseryhp
  • 004AD778 w s 0 miseryroundstarthp
  • 004AD8A0 w s 0 suehp
  • 004AD7F4 w s 0 miserytransformedhp
  • 004B1314 w s 0 deleet1hp
  • 004B13C0 w s 0 deleet2hp
  • 004BBA98 w s 0 heavypresshp
  • 004AD748 d s 0 ballos1hp

Possible improvements:

  • Several things such as killing certain bosses quickly or getting certain damage boosts are so hard to pull off that there is most likely some way to improve them at least a little. I don't see further reducing the number of rounds of any boss as being possible, though. (Actually, Misery could be 3-rounded if you can hit her with an extra blade and 6 super missile explosions on the last 2 frames of every round. But I don't know if that's really possible, and it would require getting more xp in the Last Cave and using fewer missiles against the Doctor, so it might not be significantly faster.)
  • The level 1 super missile can be shot through a wall to skip a countdown in the third room of . I'm not sure how this could save time, because by that point I'm starving for doritos for my super missiles and that area has the most xp, which takes as much time to collect as the countdown takes. But maybe there's some completely different strategy that would make it possible to save a little time here.
  • These might not really save time, but some other things to try are: skipping the +5 missiles, using left+right in the omega battle, ending closer to the door after balfrog, taking damage from different enemies in egg corridor.
  • If aiming for in-game time, which I wasn't, then more tricks with the menu could be used (including unequipping the booster in some places to preserve full boosting speed).

Other comments

  • Thanks to Upthorn for supporting winTASer (now Hourglass) and making a test run of Cave Story with it. And watching my WIPs, and advising me that the missile launcher and health upgrade are worth getting (which turned out to be completely correct), and other help.
  • Thanks to the various speedrunners and (mainly on nicovideo) TASers, who found tricks I was able to use.
Mukki: Judging...
Mukki: A superb piece of work. Accepting for publication.

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Posted: 10/26/2011 10:03 PM
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Radiant
Player (26)
Joined: 8/29/2011
Posts: 1206
Location: Amsterdam
How viable (or interesting) would a pacifist run be? I know there's a number of bosses that have to be killed, but most other enemies can, at least theoretically, be dodged.
Indie game developer
Posted: 10/26/2011 10:48 PM
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Patashu
He/Him
Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 4045
Radiant wrote:
How viable (or interesting) would a pacifist run be? I know there's a number of bosses that have to be killed, but most other enemies can, at least theoretically, be dodged.
You'd be stuck in less than a minute without the ability to kill the door mimic. P.S. when is this run being put on nicovideo?
My Chiptune music, made in Famitracker: http://soundcloud.com/patashu My twitch. I stream mostly shmups & rhythm games http://twitch.tv/patashu My youtube, again shmups and rhythm games and misc stuff: http://youtube.com/user/patashu
Posted: 10/26/2011 10:56 PM
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scrimpeh
Editor, Skilled player (1441)
Joined: 3/31/2010
Posts: 2113
TAS of 2017 First edition TAS of 2017 PSX TAS of 2017
Even moreso, the massive carnage is what carries a lot of the run, especially early on. Without it, the run would likely feel very bland, and the slow pace early on would shine through a lot more.
Posted: 10/26/2011 10:56 PM
Quote
Derakon
Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
Presumably "pacifist" means "only necessary kills", just like in practically every other pacifist run on the site. :p To my knowledge the only skippable bosses are Balrog 1 (where he flat-out asks you if you're going to fight him) and the Sisters. So you'd kill all of the other bosses, plus a door, two giant jellyfish, and a jammed shutter, if that counts. I don't know that it'd be all that interesting, but at least it'd be more differentiated from this run than just going for a different ending would be.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Posted: 10/26/2011 11:57 PM
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DarkKobold
Skilled player (1652)
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy
Arcade TASer of 2010 PCE TASer of 2010 Arcade TAS of 2010 Lucky TAS of 2009 Lucky TAS of 2007
Right before you return Choco's Key, you hit the wall, and are forced to jump again. Did you avoid a text box or something? It looked awkward, but I do remember him saying something...
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Posted: 10/27/2011 12:22 AM
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Sonikkustar
Skilled player (1328)
Joined: 9/7/2007
Posts: 1354
Location: U.S.
Sega TASer of 2021 Sega TAS of 2021 Sega TASer of 2011 Sega TAS of 2011
Alright, now for my real comments. This is certaintly one of the best TASes ive seen in a while. The amount of skillshots done with each of the weapons is astonishing. I also like the little attention to detail in entertainment that you do. That really adds to the movie! The only thing I didnt like are the missed fireball shots you occasionally do. Sure its a very odd nitpick, but given the amount of precision that you have on the bossfights, this just sorta struck out as odd for me. So heres a Yes Vote for the greatest TASer in existence. Congratulations nitsuja! One other thing. Is Hourglass r77 stable enough to do other PC TASes now? I was kinda hoping I could get back to Lyle in Cube Sector. ----- On the subject of branches & goals, I think that the "best ending" should be removed and have this be the main branch. Any other branch would just be this run without the last 18-20 minutes. So I dont really see the point in having another TAS that is claiming to be different when it would be almost identical to this one.
Homepage SVN
Posted: 10/27/2011 12:43 AM
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Wishgatherer
Joined: 10/26/2011
Posts: 7
Jungon wrote:
Wishgatherer wrote:
Edit: On the topic of 100% runs. Why not take the "Polar Star Challenge" for a spin? Minimal items are obtained, and the Polar Star is the only usable weapon. It would probably be classed a low% run. May be boring to watch, though.
I would like to see a "Bubbler" challenge, that weapon is extremely hard to use and to keep level 3... XD
From dabbling in challenge runs of Cave Story, including some hacked versions, the Polar Star Challenge is generally considered the minimalist approach. A better challenge run would be to hack in the Nemesis, and force it to level 3... 1 damage, short range ducks. Pewpew. If published, I think a spoiler warning is in order (possibly with a link to the game download). Since this run gets the good ending and saves Curly, it detracts from most players' "first run" where they do not save her. Easily the saddest part of the entire game.
Posted: 10/27/2011 1:49 AM
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arflech
He/Him
Joined: 5/3/2008
Posts: 1120
When do the subtitles start in Dada's encode?
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Posted: 10/27/2011 2:34 AM
Post subject: Hi10P YUV444 hijack
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turska
Experienced player (764)
Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 146
Computer TASer of 2012
4:4:4 10-bit has arrived. It provides vastly superior visual quality for content like this. To play it back on Windows, use LAV Filters or mplayer2. For other operating systems, use recent snapshots of ffmpeg and mplayer2.
Posted: 10/27/2011 3:32 AM
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nitsuja
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1311)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
Computer TASer of 2011 TAS of 2011 First edition TAS of 2011 Computer TAS of 2011 Sega TAS of 2010 Sega TAS of 2008 Sega TAS of 2007 Glitchy TAS of 2007
DarkKobold wrote:
Right before you return Choco's Key, you hit the wall, and are forced to jump again. Did you avoid a text box or something? It looked awkward, but I do remember him saying something...
I actually jumped over that wall, I didn't hit it. Maybe it looks awkward but it was faster than the alternatives so I didn't really have a choice there. (I'm assuming that by Choco you meant Santa and by wall you meant the little block on the ground.)
Truncated wrote:
The one that stood out to me was around 32:35 in the encode, but then you are under water so the different maximum velocity might be what's fooling me.
Around 32:35 I enter a water stream that forces me down extremely fast and I do shoot some shots upward there to reach maximum speed even faster, then I exit the stream into the regular "slow" water where I'm falling at the new maximum speed there so shooting up wouldn't do any good. And the speed limit in this game of 1535 (or 767 in still water) is enforced so strictly that even if I make my velocity value higher than the maximum, the game still won't move me any faster than that for even 1 frame.
Sonikkustar wrote:
The only thing I didnt like are the missed fireball shots you occasionally do. Sure its a very odd nitpick, but given the amount of precision that you have on the bossfights, this just sorta struck out as odd for me.
Fireballs don't always disappear after they hit an enemy, and they can do burning damage from a little more of a distance than you might expect, so most of the apparent misses weren't misses. If there are any genuine misses then I could still hex edit them out of the movie, since that weapon doesn't affect the RNG unless it hits something. I added these clarifications to the submission comments.
Patashu wrote:
P.S. when is this run being put on nicovideo?
I'd like to see it there too, actually. I think it supports higher framerates than YouTube, and the scrolling comments are almost always amusing.
Posted: 10/27/2011 6:53 AM
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Warp
Banned User
Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland
Sonikkustar wrote:
One other thing. Is Hourglass r77 stable enough to do other PC TASes now? I was kinda hoping I could get back to Lyle in Cube Sector.
I'm still waiting for a modern Doom TAS...
On the subject of branches & goals, I think that the "best ending" should be removed and have this be the main branch. Any other branch would just be this run without the last 18-20 minutes. So I dont really see the point in having another TAS that is claiming to be different when it would be almost identical to this one.
The default TAS is assumed to reach the/an ending as fast as possible, regardless of the means. This TAS uses an alternative goal that makes it not as fast as would be theoretically possible, and hence the category tag is warranted, IMO. I don't think it matters if there's only one published TAS of a game, it still warrants the category tag if it's not a "default goal" run.
Posted: 10/27/2011 7:20 AM
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FractalFusion
Editor, Expert player (2080)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3284
Glitchy TAS of 2013 Gameboy TAS of 2013 PSX TASer of 2010
This is a great run, with killing everything and all that. I've never seen so many enemies die. And you did it without slowing down. That Balrog, or whatever he is. I don't know what he is, but I call him Bablo. Voting yes. Oh, and someone uploaded to nicovideo a few hours ago. http://www.nicozon.net/watch/sm15999823 (1/5) http://www.nicozon.net/watch/sm15999889 (2/5) http://www.nicozon.net/watch/sm15999980 (3/5) http://www.nicozon.net/watch/sm16000043 (4/5) http://www.nicozon.net/watch/sm16000140 (5/5) It was me. :D
Posted: 10/27/2011 7:47 AM
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moozooh
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
Warp wrote:
I don't think it matters if there's only one published TAS of a game, it still warrants the category tag if it's not a "default goal" run.
Rather, it is the default goal for this game, but it's the fact that it's not the fastest goal that warrants the tag.
turska wrote:
4:4:4 10-bit has arrived. It provides vastly superior visual quality for content like this.
Amusingly, I had to look twice to notice vast superiority any significant change at all. :D Somehow the large brown enemy in the bottom right corner caught a few new artifacts as well. I'm sure the 4:4:4 version will take over in the Last Cave or some other place where there is a lot of red.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 10/27/2011 7:59 AM
Post subject: Re: #3343: nitsuja's Windows Cave Story "best ending" in 50:10.3
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Nitrodon
Active player (287)
Joined: 3/4/2006
Posts: 341
Santa does not wait for me to land on the ground.
Darn. I was so sure he did, and even made sure I was on the ground for that trigger in my speedrun attempts to avoid waiting too long. Now that I actually bothered to test it, I was able to make Santa's dialogue trigger while Quote is still in the air, so it's clear that I was wrong.
Posted: 10/27/2011 8:41 AM
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Warp
Banned User
Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland
moozooh wrote:
turska wrote:
4:4:4 10-bit has arrived. It provides vastly superior visual quality for content like this.
Amusingly, I had to look twice to notice vast superiority any significant change at all. :D
I have to agree. There are differences alright, but I don't see it being so much superior.
Posted: 10/27/2011 9:44 AM
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klmz
Editor, Emulator Coder, Expert player (2159)
Joined: 5/22/2007
Posts: 1134
Location: Glitchvania
NES TASer of 2018 GBA TASer of 2018 GBA TAS of 2016 Lucky TAS of 2016 GBx TASer of 2008 NES TAS of 2007
moozooh wrote:
Warp wrote:
I don't think it matters if there's only one published TAS of a game, it still warrants the category tag if it's not a "default goal" run.
Rather, it is the default goal for this game, but it's the fact that it's not the fastest goal that warrants the tag.
To me, the default goal of this game is to escape by helicopter. The best ending in this game is the advanced/alternative goal not unlike to rescue the animals in Super Metroid during escaping or to collect all furniture and place them to affect what Lydie does in the ending scene in CVHoD.
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days <adelikat> no doubt <adelikat> klmz, they still do
Posted: 10/27/2011 11:22 AM
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Dada
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
arflech wrote:
When do the subtitles start in Dada's encode?
I haven't added any subtitles. If someone could give them to me, I'd gladly do so. I got a lot of positive feedback when I uploaded Pirohikoさん's FF3j run with author's comments subtitles.
FractalFusion wrote:
This is a great run, with killing everything and all that. I've never seen so many enemies die. And you did it without slowing down. That Balrog, or whatever he is. I don't know what he is, but I call him Bablo. Voting yes. Oh, and someone uploaded to nicovideo a few hours ago. http://www.nicozon.net/watch/sm15999823 (1/5) http://www.nicozon.net/watch/sm15999889 (2/5) http://www.nicozon.net/watch/sm15999980 (3/5) http://www.nicozon.net/watch/sm16000043 (4/5) http://www.nicozon.net/watch/sm16000140 (5/5) It was me. :D
Great! I split the video up and was going to do this, but you beat me to it. Can't wait to see people's live reactions.
Posted: 10/27/2011 12:36 PM
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Radiant
Player (26)
Joined: 8/29/2011
Posts: 1206
Location: Amsterdam
I think this does count as a "best ending" run. The normal ending, i.e. the helicopter escape, is not just the same run with the last part cut off: the normal ending allows you to skip messing with Curly first in the boss room and later in the water room, allows you to pick the Booster 0.8, and lets you skip the out-of-the-way boss Ma Pignon. This may well affect route planning. However, the sad ending, i.e. the dragon escape, is simply the normal ending with the last part cut off.
Indie game developer
Posted: 10/27/2011 3:15 PM
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Derakon
Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
The Booster 0.8 wouldn't be worth getting in a TAS (even when aiming for the normal ending) as it's only useful for boosting upwards, and there's no vertically-oriented segments until after you could get the Booster 2.0 anyway. Well, I guess if you wanted to show off the fake Final Cave, then you'd have to either get Booster 0.8 or keep the mimiga mask on. In any event, given the linearity of the game, the extra steps needed to enable the best ending are fairly minor, route planning or no. They're basically "take a little extra time in the Core, take a little extra time in the Waterway, go out of your way to get the mushroom and talk to Curly, go to the pre-fab house during the escape".
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Posted: 10/27/2011 5:28 PM
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Dada
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
I'm not the judge, so my opinion doesn't really count in this matter, but I'd be more inclined to give it a "best ending" tag if I had ever seen a speedrun that doesn't go through Sacred Grounds at the end. I've literally never seen one, nor heard of anyone doing one. It would make more sense to have this, and an "easy ending" run, if it ever becomes necessary. (I doubt anyone will ever make a TAS that doesn't go through Sacred Grounds, though.)
Posted: 10/27/2011 9:22 PM
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juef
He/Him
Player (155)
Joined: 1/29/2007
Posts: 208
Location: Québec, Canada
I just happened to watch a TAS by a japanese taser last week, and every single thing that wasn't perfect I noticed is corrected by this TAS. And then some more. And then some more!! It's incredible. It's everything I dreamed a Cave Story TAS would be, and more. My brain melts just thinking about how much planification and headaches creating this run must have implied. It seems that every upgrade increased the entertainment by quite a lot. Thank you nitsuja for this run, which I can honestly say is my favorite video ever from TASVideos!
Posted: 10/28/2011 7:54 AM
(Edited: 10/28/2011 7:54 AM)
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Blazier
Joined: 8/31/2011
Posts: 11
How could you vote anything other than "Yes". A wonderful TAS. Well done.
Posted: 10/28/2011 7:54 AM
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arflech
He/Him
Joined: 5/3/2008
Posts: 1120
Dada wrote:
arflech wrote:
When do the subtitles start in Dada's encode?
I haven't added any subtitles. If someone could give them to me, I'd gladly do so.
Wait, I think I know what you meant that the video now has "proper subtitles"; you meant the informational text about the run itself, not a translation of the speech and info dialogs.
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Posted: 10/28/2011 9:10 AM
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Dada
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
arflech wrote:
Dada wrote:
arflech wrote:
When do the subtitles start in Dada's encode?
I haven't added any subtitles. If someone could give them to me, I'd gladly do so.
Wait, I think I know what you meant that the video now has "proper subtitles"; you meant the informational text about the run itself, not a translation of the speech and info dialogs.
Oh, I actually realized that right after I posted my reply. I was going to edit my post, but I apparently forgot. Yes, the run now has the proper subtitles. The other one I uploaded that didn't have them has been set to unlisted. Some sites might still link to that old one, so make sure to check that if you can't see them (they show up during the first scene, and in First Cave). edit: who's working on the regular encode? At this time I don't think anyone is. I'm pretty busy with work but if nobody's going to pick this up, I'll do the regular encode this weekend.
Posted: 10/28/2011 11:51 AM
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Tub
Joined: 6/25/2005
Posts: 1377
Huzzah! Yes vote! Glad to see that nitsuja hasn't quit entirely. This is an impressive TAS. Do you have numbers how much dog-hat and curly-hat slow you down?
Nitrodon wrote:
I've played through this game a couple times[..]
hehe. It was your run during sgdg that finally introduced me to this game. I'm now on my second playthrough, going for the best ending. But so far I've only gotten my rear kicked in SG.
m00
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