Post by Sonikkustar

Posted: 6/3/2011 11:43 PM

Post subject: Notable publications ("moons")

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sgrunt

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Emulator Coder, Former player

Joined: 10/28/2007
Posts: 1360
Location: The dark horror in the back of your mind

Hey everyone: Those of you who watch the front page may have noticed runs occasionally appear in the recent movies feed with a moon listed next to them. For those not in the know, the moon indicates a "notable publication" - runs deemed by the publishers to be noteworthy in some respect (generated a lot of discussion, long-awaited runs, first for a platform, etc.) but that do not have stars (the two are mutually exclusive due to the way the site is coded). I've recently added more functionality to the site to track notable publications, such as adding them on to the movie pages and creating [wiki Movies-Notable-Obs]an auto-generated list of them[/wiki] (link includes obsolete movies). I am creating this thread to solicit suggestions for movies that deserve moons (and don't presently have stars). Any publisher (or above) has the ability to set this status, so be sure to convince us why the run is somehow notable.

Posted: 6/4/2011 4:23 PM

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alden

Player (121)

Joined: 2/11/2007
Posts: 1522

You've got plenty of Mario, Zelda, Sonic, Mega Man and Castlevania, but only one Metroid movie!?!?! WTF!?!?

I make a comic with no image files and you should read it. While there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free. -Eugene Debs

Posted: 6/4/2011 10:32 PM

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NitroGenesis

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Editor, Experienced player (556)

Joined: 12/24/2009
Posts: 1873

Unless you count [28] NES Chip 'n Dale: Rescue Rangers "2 players" by Sleepz in 10:56.95 which is technically twoplayer.

YoungJ1997lol wrote:

Normally i would say Yes, but thennI thought "its not the same hack" so ill stick with meh.

Posted: 6/5/2011 11:42 AM

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Baxter

Skilled player (1410)

Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821

I thought the original goal of moons was to point out new notable publications, so that people wouldn't miss certain newly published movies that were in a way special. I thought that a movie losing its moon after a month or so was really the idea, just something never implemented. Did this change, or were moons never really related to newly published movies only? Also, "notable" is a very wide notion. It can be anything like "first 2 player", "first 100% kills", "first whatever", and also just "entertaining movie"? Can moons of obsolete movies become obsolete (if the reason was for the moon was entertainment, and the new movie is more entertaining for example), or would it keep its moon regardless, since it was a notable publication at the time it was published? Also, is there a certain maximum percentage of all the TASes that should have moons? Too many and a moon might not be something special anymore... Btw, it might be a good idea that besides people posting here suggesting moons, people would also post when they assign a moon and state the reason again. ...just some thoughts :)

http://tasvideos.org/Baxter.html

Posted: 6/5/2011 12:31 PM

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Kirkq

Player (210)

Joined: 7/7/2006
Posts: 798
Location: US

I do think the moon issue causes a bit of an overcategorization. Certain publications are "improvements to popular runs", certain publications are "innovative new concepts", and certain publications are "the first run on a new console." I think it may be important to point out all of the aforementioned at the time, but to determine retroactively how the submission fit seems silly. If a site page documenting "First run to W,X,Y, and Z" is wanted, why not make it. I tend to agree with the notion that moons should be temporary, but then this would require us to go back and remove them or something. It's all rather arbitrary business.

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Posted: 6/5/2011 12:51 PM

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moozooh

Senior Moderator

Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away

Baxter wrote:

I thought the original goal of moons was to point out new notable publications, so that people wouldn't miss certain newly published movies that were in a way special. I thought that a movie losing its moon after a month or so was really the idea, just something never implemented.

I agree completely. After these notable publications get bumped down the new publication list, they become "recommended" movies in basically the same way a stared movie does, and the difference is not immediately obvious. Not only that, it's also extremely arbitrary. Marking "firsts of their kind" is an interesting and a different idea altogether, as that is actually easy to define, and this way there is no heredity involved (on the other hand, it's totally retrofit-friendly). This should be useful as an exhibition of TASing history and particular milestones of its evolution. Not sure if moons should be that, or should such entries be marked with a yet different symbol (sun? exclamation mark? idea lightbulb?).

Warp wrote:

Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.

Posted: 6/6/2011 6:04 AM

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Warp

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Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland

moozooh wrote:

Marking "firsts of their kind" is an interesting and a different idea altogether, as that is actually easy to define, and this way there is no heredity involved (on the other hand, it's totally retrofit-friendly). This should be useful as an exhibition of TASing history and particular milestones of its evolution.

I like that idea. Of course it would require some mechanism to describe somehow somewhere the reason for the mark.

idea lightbulb?

I like that as well.

Posted: 6/6/2011 6:16 AM

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scrimpeh

Editor, Skilled player (1439)

Joined: 3/31/2010
Posts: 2108

I'm for that idea as well. Because we can never have too many award-type categorizations here.

Posted: 6/6/2011 11:29 AM

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klmz

Editor, Emulator Coder, Expert player (2156)

Joined: 5/22/2007
Posts: 1134
Location: Glitchvania

Shall we have "suns" for legendary movies that shine on people for ever and a day!

<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days <adelikat> no doubt <adelikat> klmz, they still do

Posted: 6/6/2011 12:17 PM

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Warepire

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I agree with moozooh. I vote for the symbol being a lit lightbulb too.

Posted: 6/6/2011 3:18 PM

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klmz

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Joined: 5/22/2007
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klmz wrote:

Shall we have "suns" for legendary movies that shine on people for ever and a day!

Althought I was joking, I expressed that the icons should be made on a unified theme. A light bulb doesn't seem suitable.

<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days <adelikat> no doubt <adelikat> klmz, they still do

Posted: 6/6/2011 3:30 PM

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Miles

Joined: 11/21/2006
Posts: 94

I don't know, suns just don't seem like a good idea. >_> But yeah, I agree with what everyone else has been saying.

Posted: 6/7/2011 6:30 AM

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Warp

Banned User

Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland

klmz wrote:

Althought I was joking, I expressed that the icons should be made on a unified theme. A light bulb doesn't seem suitable.

I don't see any need for such a thing. Artificially constraining the icons to a specific "unified theme" is needlessly limiting.

Posted: 6/7/2011 6:38 AM

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Brandon

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We need some clear cut difference between stars and moons. I support using moons to point out runs that either did something that no other TAS has done before, or that found a major breakthrough for a particular game (The first Super Mario Bros run to do the flag pole glitch possibly being an example). Unlike stars, moons shouldn't be passed on through obsoleting unless the new movie does something vastly different that would constitute its own moon. Just my two cents.

All the best, Brandon Evans

Posted: 6/8/2011 3:25 PM

Post subject: Green star plus juggle trophy imo

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JXQ

Experienced player (761)

Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132

The reason given for stars existing is to offer recommendations for someone who is new to the site/concept. What would a user gain from being able to see this "notable" list of movies? If that question doesn't have a good answer, then it's tough to see this concept as more than just another needless designation. I already feel this way about the stars, so a second method of self-congratulating seems redundant and cluttered. It reminds me of the old "ninja" rank. I do like the "console-verified" designation, so it's not like useful implementations of these types of groupings don't exist. But I don't see how "notable" publications are useful.

<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)

Posted: 6/9/2011 5:56 AM

Post subject: Re: Green star plus juggle trophy imo

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Warp

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Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland

JXQ wrote:

The reason given for stars existing is to offer recommendations for someone who is new to the site/concept. What would a user gain from being able to see this "notable" list of movies? If that question doesn't have a good answer, then it's tough to see this concept as more than just another needless designation. I already feel this way about the stars, so a second method of self-congratulating seems redundant and cluttered. It reminds me of the old "ninja" rank.

You could use the same argument for pretty much everything else as well, such as the category tags and ratings. The obvious counter-argument would be: What's the harm? Someone might find it useful, especially someone who just casually skims over new publications from time to time to see if anything interesting-looking pops up.

Posted: 6/9/2011 2:11 PM

Post subject: Re: Green star plus juggle trophy imo

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JXQ

Experienced player (761)

Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132

You could use the same argument for pretty much everything else as well, such as the category tags and ratings.

This is true. I remember thinking that a "notable" movie could just have a tag that said "notable" or "first TAS on new system", but that seemed a bit silly to suggest.

The obvious counter-argument would be: What's the harm? Someone might find it useful, especially someone who just casually skims over new publications from time to time to see if anything interesting-looking pops up.

My only argument for any "harm" that is caused is a stretch, but I feel like having subjective designations like stars, etc. help to encourage more competition and discourages collaboration, which I feel long-term reduces the quality of TASes and sometimes increases hostility in discussions.

<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)

Posted: 8/15/2011 12:24 AM

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Limne

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Joined: 2/24/2010
Posts: 153

I never knew what the moons meant when I first started seeing them so I treat the stars and moons the same. It's just another way of saying, "Oh you might want to watch this one. It'll probably be a neat watch." Personally, I tend to watch movies by clicking on the "popular movies" category and looking for games I like.

Posted: 11/12/2011 8:21 PM

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