I think that starting the level 10 pixels to the left will help with the P speed for a lot of stages. That was a really good find andymac! I'm just starting on level 1-1.
Also, does anyone know if the pipe glitch is possible to do from the left side of the pipe? I've tried it and I haven't been able to do it from the left, only from the right side.
Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1942
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden
No, the pipe glitch is only possible from the right side as far as I know. There aren't really many places to use it though, sadly.
Good luck with the run.
Joined: 11/30/2008
Posts: 650
Location: a little city in the middle of nowhere
The 10 pixels to the left trick was know in the previous two runs. It's actually nothing new, and can only save extra time in one stage that I am aware of, and it was cancelled out by HB luck unfortunately.
Here is my WIP for Super Mario Bros. 3:
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1943364842/GlitchMan-Super%20Mario%20Bros%203%20%28U%29%20%28PRG%200%29-WIP1.fm2
I also found out that it is possible to grab the scepter from the top of the screen without the leaf or P-Wing. You have to have the P-meter full in order to jump 6 blocks up (you get a higher jump with full running speed), wall jump over the right side of the wall so you can reach the platform (the top of the wall), and start the running acceleration while you're still on the platform.
So far it seems like you've saved around 7 frames already. You're doing well, considering how competed the game is!
Thanks! Here's the improved scepter grab I was talking about! :D
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1374060360/GlitchMan-SMB3%20%28U%29%20%28PRG%200%29-sceptergrab.fm2
That one improvement will save almost 24 seconds for the entire run when it's been done in the rest of the worlds (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 7). This means you may not need the leaf to do this in world 6!
I also found out a few days ago that the wall jump glitch does not work in the hills/underground levels nor does the falling-into-blocks trick. Another thing about these levels is that when I hex edit Mario's X or Y position to be inside a wall, he zips up the wall 16 pixels per frame (he still zips to the right 1 pixel per frame). I think that could have something to do with it because these are the only levels with slopes in them (which are designed to keep Mario from glitching into the ground) and because of this the wall glitch doesn't work. I also noticed that the platform detection in those stages isn't the same as the regular ones because when I stand within the last few pixels of a platform without moving horizontally then I jump, Mario jumps off the platform (another reason why the wall glitch won't work).
Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1942
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden
Both the scepter grab and the different route in 2-F are great. I had previously tried to go throw the wall there, as well as using the pipe glitch to get to the boss room, but never with the P-wing.
Keep these improvements coming!
Thanks Tompa! :D
I tried the pipe glitch myself in world 2-F and the screen actually made it to the boss room but the boss wouldn't activate until Mario touches the ground and Mario was falling at vertical screen 08 (hex address 0087) by the time he exited the pipe and it would take forever before he touched the ground again. I had no choice but to use the P-Wing and see what I came up with. I might keep the leaf for the Pyramid level and wall glitch through the brick layers on the outside.
Wow, I wouldn't believe such improvements to be found in a Game like Super Mario Bros 3, yet you keep proving me wrong, GlitchMan. Please, do keep it up!
Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1942
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden
I'm wondering though... The P-wings we had were used in 4-4 (Faster to get up on the wall while having P-speed), 5-1 (Fly up to the pipe to get the music box for skipping hammer bros/flower fight later on) and 7-Fort 1 (No need to get the Tanooki suit/having a leaf before).
Will it be faster to use the P-wing here instead of any of those three? Probably in 4-4 though, but I haven't tested that one.
I already took note of that. In World 5-1 I will lose 2 seconds but I gain those 2 seconds back when I fight Boom-Boom in the World 5 Fortress level. But it looks like the World 7 Fortress 1 is impossible to do without the Super Leaf/Tanooki Suit. Another benefit of not using P-Wing in 5-1 is keeping the Fire Mario which means you don't have to use the star at the beginning of World 5-7.
I could probably use the star in World 6 Fortress 1 to save Fire Mario but I have tested trying to make it across the spikes before the star power wears off. I still haven't made it (I tried jumping off the moving platform at the max non-P-meter running speed of 2.5 pixels) and I even tried duck jumping before the star invincibility wore off but all I needed was four more frames to be able to do a wall jump without touching the spikes.
I wanted to keep Fire Mario for World 6 because I could kill 2 Fortress bosses and the Airship boss with him (I don't need the Super Leaf for World 6-5 because I'm going to just wall glitch my way through on the outside). On the other hand I could grab the Fire Flower in 6-5 (the small room with the two pipes) when glitching through the wall in case using the star in the Fortress doesn't work.
EDIT: Never mind about the question box in 6-5. It's actually a Super Leaf inside, not a Fire Flower. So I have to have the star power to get past the spikes in the preceeding mini-fortress level.
Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1942
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden
So you are going to skip getting the music box in 5-1 I take it? Which would mean some extra time would be lost because of the hammer brothers as well as manipulating them to be out of the way.
Or did you have a different solution for that?
I could give 6-F1 a shot to see if I can make it, I have my doubts though.
So you are going to skip getting the music box in 5-1 I take it? Which would mean some extra time would be lost because of the hammer brothers as well as manipulating them to be out of the way.
Or did you have a different solution for that?
I could give 6-F1 a shot to see if I can make it, I have my doubts though.
I can glitch through the floor in 5-1, enter the pipe, and grab the music box that way (this is just a test run).
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/44647727/GlitchMan-SMB3%20%28U%29%20%28PRG%200%29-W5-1.fm2
I also tested just finishing the level like normal by grabbing the Mushroom-Flower-Star card panel at the end. It turned out to be only 7 frames faster (plus some additional time would be lost later on because grabbing the card will result in getting a 1up at the end since you finished the main levels in world 8 with two card panels). So really, it's just faster to grab the music box.
As for using the P-Wing in 4-4 I saw that you lose 51 frames by activating it on the map screen. It could be faster to not use it.
Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1942
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden
I actually thought it would take longer to glitch through the wall than that, I'm dumb.
As for 4-4, I did some testings before on that. One thing that will be a problem is to keep the P-speed after the wall. You can jump on the Lakitu to get up on the wall, get P-speed and jump down into the water. The problem there is that I'm not sure it's enough time to jump on the lakitu again to make it to the platform.
You will probably make it though.
I actually thought it would take longer to glitch through the wall than that, I'm dumb.
When you have the Super Leaf and you get the (P) meter filled the jumping speed falls at 17 instead of going up to 38.
I also found that it costs time to switch to the P-Wing in 5-1 so really I only lose 160 frames instead of 210.
EDIT: I finished the test run for World 4-4:
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1698960419/GlitchMan-SMB3%20%28U%29%20%28PRG%200%29-W4-4.fm2
It looks like it's just faster to use the P-Wing for 4-4.
Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1942
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden
On a side note... In world 3, when fighting the hammer brother, it is faster to jump on them rather than shoot them both. That's because they fall much faster, and the chest won't appear until they are both out from the screen.
Same way as I did 4-4. That version was 152 frames slower compared to P-wing strategy, not counting the time it takes to get the P-wing so it is probably like 100 frames slower.
That makes it a total of about 260 frames lost so far. Some time will, as mentioned, be saved over the previous run because of the change. Having the fire flower in 4-6 saves some time and also some for not having to grab it.
I found another glitch:
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/674755829/GlitchMan-SMB3%20%28U%29%20%28PRG%200%29-itemboxglitch.fm2
This happens when the Koopa shell hits the brick at the same time Mario hits the item box. The 1up Mushroom falls out the bottom of the box instead of rising out of the top. I'm not sure if this could save any time in this speed run but I wanted to post this on here just in case.
There are more collision glitches like this. One of them is where Mario hits a brick block when the Para-Goomba and a mushroom are at the same vertical axis. Another is where a Spiny is walking upside down on a row of brick blocks on the right side and a Buzzy Beetle is walking on the top and you hit the Beetle from the bottom with the brick and the Spiny gets killed. I saw a video on YouTube that showed these two glitches:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_8BF1wyy0o
Another thing I found out about the wall zipping is that Small Mario's horizontal wall zipping is x3 to the left of a wall and xB to the right and Super Mario's is x2 and xC, respectively. That's why wall jumping is harder to do with Super Mario.
I think those glitches were already found by poleovermania (RAT926 on tasvideos).
I just finished watching them all. I found the "item falling out of box" glitch myself. There were a lot more glitches than I thought! That was really cool how he found all those (especially the 4-5 wall glitch in the room with the Tanooki suit leading to the end of the stage). My favorite one was the one where he is collecting the coins to delay the wall/floor collision checks so he can get into the wall without the P-speed.
