Ah forgot about Proto's Jet.
But it's really the fight with Blade I'm worried about. You wont be able to touch him on the ceiling and chipping away at him while he's on the floor will only go so far. It's definitely worth looking into but I have a feeling it wont end up in your favor.
::EDIT::
Oh, and almost forgot. Don't forget about the buster only Tri-Castle fight. Those combined will eat up your time saved from triple blading a few extra bosses.
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
Location: The Netherlands
I just remembered the whole Commando Man first deal. What if I did Commando Man first and Blade Man second? I'd have Blade Man's weakness ready for him, and the only boss who suffers from not having either weakness or Triple Blade would be Commando Man, who with his invincibility quirks could be defeated quickly anyway (in theory).
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Now I like your thinking.
I went ahead and tested the Buster only Commando Man fight. Comparing it to my Wily Stage 4 fight with him, its only about 2 seconds slower. It's on YouTube here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_tG_MmLU2E
It's hard to tell from the video, but the Buster only fight is about 3.9 seconds, while the Wheel Cutter takes only 1.7.
Having Blade Cutter will no doubt shave more than 2 seconds off Nitro Man and Chill Man. Easy. The last thing to worry about is the Buster only Tri-Castle fight, since the Commando Bomb wont help. I'll test a Buster only fight with him next.
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
Location: The Netherlands
Neat, thanks for testing all that out.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Thanks!
I agree the fight with Blade was bad, but that's as it's gonna get with the Buster. It was actually 2 seconds longer before I found a better way to manipulate his jumps to the ceiling. In my first attempt, he jumped to the ceiling 3 times. In the one I uploaded, he only jumps once. I cut one out by moving away from him at 1:59 on the game time. And at about 2:04, I had an opportunity to shoot him, but doing so would prompt him to jump to the ceiling again. So I had to sacrifice some time to ultimately end the fight faster.
But after it was over, I learned not to Buster Blade Man, lol.
Still is fun to watch though. I might Buster the rest of the bosses for fun in Wily Stage 4 next. I'm just biding my time before I do a full run until the Dolphin is in a TAS'able state. Right now only Time Trials can be TAS'd because of the in-game replay option.
Alright. So I'm still having some sync issues with .dtm's, but I'm going to try frame dumping tonight. Since this will be my first contribution to TASvideos, I want to make sure I have the right information about accepted categories before I begin. Looking at the options available, it seems there are 18 possible categories:
Mega Man
-Easy
-Normal
-Hard
-Easy w/DLC
-Normal w/DLC
-Hard w/DLC
And the same 6 options for Proto Man and Bass. So would someone pleasy specify which categories will be accepted on this site? Also, do we sumbit the frame dumps or the .dtm?
I know Proto Man is in the works but I've never really been a fan of him. I want to run with Mega Man on Normal with DLC, if possible, but I can make do without it. After that I would like to run with Bass.
I know Proto Man is in the works but I've never really been a fan of him. I want to run with Mega Man on Normal with DLC, if possible, but I can make do with it. After that I would like to run with Bass.
Firstly, you likely should use hard difficulty, as per Wiki: Guidelines: "Where a game has multiple difficulty levels, it is preferred to play on the hardest difficulty level (for more interesting gameplay) unless the only difference between difficulty levels is enemy/boss hit points, in which case the easiest difficulty levels are preferred in the interest of speed."
Secondly, using the DLC versions could cause problems with others getting the .dtm to reliably play back (or to play back at all). Since basically DLC modifies the game and it is no longer what was originally on the disc. You could of course do a quick test run, post the .dtm and ask others if they can play it back.
So I think you should start with Hard (no DLC) run.
Thanks. Yeah I read that in the wiki but I was still a little unsure since the developers added a watered down easy mode and an amped up hard mode into this game, but only Normal mode with Mega Man is accepted on the leaderboards.
If only hard mode will be accepted then I'll start planning my route through it. No DLC would also exclude Bass entirely which is sad because his dash would blow through the game in no time. I'll probably still run with him afterwards for fun.
Looking at the options available, it seems there are 18 possible categories:
Mega Man
-Easy
-Normal
-Hard
-Easy w/DLC
-Normal w/DLC
-Hard w/DLC
And the same 6 options for Proto Man and Bass.
Yeah this is a bit of an issue. Since the leaderboard only keeps track of Megaman Normal times, I think it may be allowable to have that as a category. To my understanding DLC has a really minimal impact on the game, so maybe that is something better reserved for youtube demonstrations.
IMO there are multiple valid categories.
I think these are the best 4 personally:
Megaman Normal (In-game timer?)
Megaman Hard (Real-time?)
Proto Man Hard
Bass Hard
You're right. DLC weapons really don't help that much. So now I'm torn between Normal or Hard with Mega Man.
Hard mode adds significantly more enemies, and different boss patterns. But techincally, Hard isn't available at the start of the game so I will probably run Normal first and Hard later.
I'm just excited to TAS a Commando Man start, since it really is a TAS only route with the potential to be faster than just a fine-tuned real-time route.
One more question, will the displayed final time be counted or will this be manually timed? Because using the displayed time will allow me to use an W-tank before Wily to spam Blade on him.
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
Location: The Netherlands
Proto Man normal should be an option, since it's the fastest without saves or DLC. (Hard mode needs to be unlocked, IIRC.)
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Yeah this is a bit of an issue. Since the leaderboard only keeps track of Megaman Normal times, I think it may be allowable to have that as a category. To my understanding DLC has a really minimal impact on the game, so maybe that is something better reserved for youtube demonstrations.
IMO there are multiple valid categories.
I think these are the best 4 personally:
Megaman Normal (Is hard mode actually much different for speed purposes? -- maybe this isn't a great category.)
Megaman Hard
Proto Man Hard
Bass Hard
Since when has TASvideos ever given a crap about what other sites do?
I think there should only the 3 hard categorys. If you want to make a megaman normal TAS, to compare it to the leader board, you can ofcourse do so, but it shouldn't be published here.
An in-game featured online leaderboard seems categorically different than "what other sites do." We have many runs on this site that aim for in-game time, and the normal mode category might be what is best suited for such.
It is another issue whether a given run should aim for in-game time or real-time. If the normal mode run goes for in-game time, and the hard mode run goes for real-time, maybe that is a decent medium? (Do certain items in the shop help certain levels a bit for in-game time, maybe this should be done for the normal mode in-game time run?)
Mothrayas: Do you think that both Proto Man normal and Proto Man hard are valid categories? I doubt there is too much difference in the gameplay between them.
There doesn't seem to be a consensus here. There are valid arguments for both sides, but who has the final say?
On one hand, Hard mode and DLC weapons must be earned before becoming available. On the other hand, the guidelines state the hardest difficulty must be used. And then Bass is available from the start, but only after installing the DLC.
Gah. I'd hate to be halfway through a run only to find out the parameters I chose will be rejected.
Maybe some judges can provide feedback before you get started. If a consensus can be agreed upon before you start, it is likely there will be no problem when you do submit.
Alright. I'll stay in speculation mode for now.
Also, back to the in-game time vs real-time point:
I need a W-tank or two to clear the Wily stages effeciently. Using them freezes the in-game timer but real time would obviously keep ticking.
Also, the last pit before Blade Man is too big for Mega Man to jump over. This means I must purchase and use a Beat Call. This is no problem with in-game time, because I can easily obtain the screws I need in Commando Man's stage. But even the fastest shopper would consume all the time saved from have the Triple Blade.
We have many runs on this site that aim for in-game time, and the normal mode category might be what is best suited for such.
Where do we have many? We have a few, but (generally) only if the gameplay the route is significantly different to real time. TASvideo is and has always be about realtime runs. Just because there is an ingame leader board doesn't change that fact.
"Aims for in-game time" http://tasvideos.org/Movies-C1012Y.html
This may or may not be tagged on relevant movies. Most games don't even really have an explicit in-game timer, but many that do have an in-game run.
Also see the Goldeneye and Perfect Dark TASes on the workbench.
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
Location: The Netherlands
Kirkq wrote:
Mothrayas: Do you think that both Proto Man normal and Proto Man hard are valid categories? I doubt there is too much difference in the gameplay between them.
I doubt it as well.
The only ones who I'd think should do Hard Mode are Mega Man with DLC and maybe Bass, because these need SRAM anyway.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
I agree with Kirkq (I think), Megaman Normal and Hard are both legitimate categories (Normal in-game time and Hard real time), I think Normal would be more interesting so it can be compared to the human speedruns
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
Location: The Netherlands
I don't see why some categories would need both Normal and Hard runs. Normal and Hard aren't that different - all I could think of are some different enemy placements and slightly changed boss AI - not worth getting a separate run of an otherwise identical category over. Additionally, Hard needs to be unlocked first, and clean saves are preferred in TASVideos.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
Location: The Netherlands
Probably not, since the only differences would be chugging a W-tank or M-tank once or twice somewhere in Wily's fortress.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
