Post subject: Should TASers rate their own movies?
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I have just found out that some players have rated their own movies, and I think that some discussion on the matter would be good. In my opinion, such practice isn't appropriate because, having into account the amount of time and effort than they take, I don't think that rating your own TASes objectively is possible.
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Noxxa
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I agree, people shouldn't be able to rate their own movies because as an author it's hardly possible to have an objective opinion on it. In addition, players are essentially free to change their movies' ratings to an extent, and in extension, improve their player points amount. (Don't go complaining to me that people don't/shouldn't care and that it's just a number etc., please)
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Rolanmen1
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Sorry to be offtopic, but this gave me the idea that TASers shouldn't vote on their own TASes. It's an obvious Yes Vote if the TASer is going to vote.
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Rolanmen1 wrote:
Sorry to be offtopic, but this gave me the idea that TASers shouldn't vote on their own TASes. It's an obvious Yes Vote if the TASer is going to vote.
The discussion about own voting is here and you aren't offtopic at all, cause this two problems are related.
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The only real issue is people rating their own movies multiple times. I caught a user who created three accounts and gave each of his own movies 10/10.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Post subject: Re: Should TASers rate their own movies?
ALAKTORN
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Joined: 10/19/2009
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Zeupar wrote:
I have just found out that some players have rated their own movies, and I think that some discussion on the matter would be good. In my opinion, such practice isn't appropriate because, having into account the amount of time and effort than they take, I don't think that rating your own TASes objectively is possible.
I agree
Joined: 2/19/2010
Posts: 248
If there are 20 other ratings each of 5.0/5.0, a user who rates himself 10/10 will only skew the results to 5.25/5.25. The effect is only diluted more by more ratings.
adelikat
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Can you show me the examples of biased author ratings that are skewing results? So much so that it is worth taking time to code the site to stop them? Ditto for voting. Show me the problem, otherwise this is a non-issue.
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Rating own movies objectively is impossible. Rating others' movies objectively is equally impossible. It is a non-issue if the authors evaluate their effort fairly, because they know the game better and can actually tell how polished the run is (like adelikat does; I mean his tech rating for own movies is sometimes lower than what I give). If they just do 10/10 on whatever they submit, it's really irksome, but doesn't become much of a problem if there are many other users who have rated those movies.
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If one would really want to do something about this, it might be easier to simply remove authors' own ratings from the database from time to time with a script/stored procedure/whatever rather than adding a check to the rating code. For each movie, check if the author has rated it, and if so, silently remove those ratings. OTOH, whether all this is worth the effort is another question.
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Warp wrote:
OTOH, whether all this is worth the effort is another question.
The answer to this question is no.
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I don't rate my own movies. However, as an example, it bugs me to see technical ratings as low as 7 on my my Kid Niki movie, though I know it can only be improved by 2~6 frames. It was one of the movies I optimized to death. Not that it matters... I don't care at all, but technical ratings are often flawed.
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MUGG wrote:
I don't rate my own movies. However, as an example, it bugs me to see technical ratings as low as 7 on my my Kid Niki movie, though I know it can only be improved by 2~6 frames. It was one of the movies I optimized to death. Not that it matters... I don't care at all, but technical ratings are often flawed.
Technical ratings are very difficult, especially if you haven't ever played the game. I try to abstain from technical votes if I haven't played the game, and only really feel comfortable giving them if I've TASed it (or if the author's notes are exhaustive and technical with links to lua scripts and / or bots, etc.). I also feel that sometimes awkwardness or intrinsically clunky gameplay can be confounded with the author's technical skill.
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I have no problem with rating and/or voting for your own movie. I've done it with all of mine, trying to be as fair as possible with the ratings. If there are very few people to vote or rate, then it's likely an unpopular game and no one will care what you vote. Conversely, if it's a popular game enough people will rate or vote to make the authors single rating/vote inconsequential.
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MUGG wrote:
I don't rate my own movies. However, as an example, it bugs me to see technical ratings as low as 7 on my my Kid Niki movie, though I know it can only be improved by 2~6 frames. It was one of the movies I optimized to death.
It seems to still be a rather common misconception that the "technical rating" is a synonym for "frame perfection". It isn't, and it shouldn't. Frame perfection is only a small part of it. http://tasvideos.org/VotingGuidelines.html (Note that I'm not saying that 7 is a proper rating for your movie even by those standards. Just wanted to, once again, clear up the confusion.)
adelikat
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What Warp said. However, most people do rate based on how close to frame perfect they think a movie is. I used to rate that way as well, but have since changed how I look at the technical rating. However, I don't particularly think any way of rating is right or wrong. Just keep in mind that what you see as an unfair rating might just be a different interpretation of the rating system.
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You should definitely be able to rate your own movies. If your run happens to be one of your favourites, you should be able to rate it to show this.
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Now that the awards voting is open, it raises the question if the authors should be allowed to vote for themselves and on their own movies... (OTOH, I think that in most democracies candidates retain their constitutional right to vote and are hence allowed to vote, and it's actually implicitly expected that they vote for themselves, so perhaps this isn't such a horrible thing.)
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Warp wrote:
Now that the awards voting is open, it raises the question if the authors should be allowed to vote for themselves and on their own movies... (OTOH, I think that in most democracies candidates retain their constitutional right to vote and are hence allowed to vote, and it's actually implicitly expected that they vote for themselves, so perhaps this isn't such a horrible thing.)
Yeah, in the US, it is always a big photo op when the presidential candidates vote.
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In conclusion: The ethics of self-voting is reliant on the honesty of the voter; ultimately, though, it is not a significant enough issue to be worth tackling.
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