Post by rhebus

Posted: 12/5/2010 12:41 AM

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Kriole

Experienced player (870)

Joined: 11/26/2007
Posts: 400
Location: Sueeden

A few weeks back, I decided to check how much ducking would save in the earlier parts of my 100%, to get some sort of perspective of how much time was lost in my v2. In the making, I thought of some new fancy strategies which I managed to apply and actually saved an surprising amount of time. I also got a few cool ideas from rhebus (Samurai Armor :3), some of which I still have yet to test. Anyways, the vbm pretty much speaks for itself, but in short, I take some damage to get a few extra glitched level-up screens. Thus far, every level-up screen is glitched and it shouldn't be too hard to make them all glitched, except Balore and Death. Also, I have plans on skipping Imp altogether, which actually shouldn't be too hard with rhebus' Lua scripts. Pie Currently 599 frames ahead of myself. I have plans to redo from the Study, either from the Arachne corridor or the Bone Pillar room during the exit. There are a few things I need to check there, and also, I'd like to avoid using Ghost so much (there are 3 Ghost soul usages which can be removed without wasting time, had to add them due to bad luck). Turning around doesn't waste any time with ducking, so you can see me doing that sometimes for poops and giggles, or for luck manipulation.

Posted: 12/5/2010 1:21 AM

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moozooh

Senior Moderator

Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away

o_0 Ok, here's a riddle: what's both unexpected and impossibly cool?

Warp wrote:

Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.

Posted: 12/5/2010 2:32 AM

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gocha

Any

Emulator Coder, Former player

Joined: 6/21/2006
Posts: 402
Location: Japan, Nagoya

Link to video om nom nom... flesh!

I am usually available on Discord server or Twitter.

Posted: 12/5/2010 8:19 AM

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rhebus

Joined: 2/19/2010
Posts: 248

I'm rhebus, and I approve this WIP. Oh, and I took the liberty of posting to the WIP thread so everyone can share in the awesomeness.

Posted: 12/5/2010 8:40 AM

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ALAKTORN

He/Him

Former player

Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy

wow, that was incredibly awesome :)

Posted: 12/5/2010 9:10 AM

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scrimpeh

Editor, Skilled player (1441)

Joined: 3/31/2010
Posts: 2113

Wow, very nice WIP, I'm impressed. After that previous run of yours, I thought it was gonna be near unimprovable. But you continue to amaze me every time. The route change through the floating gardens was very unexcepted and unbelievably cool.

Posted: 12/5/2010 9:52 AM

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rhebus

Joined: 2/19/2010
Posts: 248

scrimpeh wrote:

The route change through the floating gardens was very unexcepted and unbelievably cool.

Here's why the route change happened: The right-hand route in Floating Gardens is slower, by about 190 frames, than the left-hand route. However, it has three main benefits which make it faster overall: 1. you get the Dead Warrior soul, so you don't need to detour to get it before going to the Chaotic Realm at the end, saving ~130 frames, 2. you get the glitched level-up at the Dead Warrior, rather than levelling up at the Kicker Skeleton which is much harder to glitch (if it's possible at all), saving ~60 frames, 3. You can grab Samurai Armor from Dead Warrior for +3 STR. If it weren't for the Samurai Armor, the routes would be roughly equal, but the +3 STR will speed up most fights - including death and legion - between clocktower and graham (after which dracula's tunic replaces samurai armor). Incidentally, the ~130 frame saving from already having the Dead Warrior soul is "unbanked", and the published run had already equipped mystletain while the WIP still needs a pause to do so; so the true saving over the published run is closer to 599 + 130 (dead warrior) - 60 (mystletain pause) = ~670 frames. You're underselling yourself, Kriole :D

Posted: 12/5/2010 1:46 PM

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Tub

Joined: 6/25/2005
Posts: 1377

Wow, that's impressive! How did you manage to finish such a long WIP in such a short time? Have you been working on it in secrecy or is it due to the LUA scripts?

moozooh wrote:

Ok, here's a riddle: what's both unexpected and impossibly cool?

I don't know.. is it you? <3

m00

Posted: 12/6/2010 4:14 AM

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Sonikkustar

Skilled player (1328)

Joined: 9/7/2007
Posts: 1354
Location: U.S.

After many revisions of this TAS, I think im starting to see something truly awesome Kriole. Keep up the amazing work!

Homepage SVN

Posted: 12/6/2010 5:42 AM

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klmz

Editor, Emulator Coder, Expert player (2159)

Joined: 5/22/2007
Posts: 1134
Location: Glitchvania

I've been thinking of this for a long time: the "less-glitched any%" run doesn't provide much new that the "100% souls" and "glitched any%" doesn't. Could the "less-glitched any%" category of this game be deprecated in favour of other more potential ones such as "Julius all bosses"?

<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days <adelikat> no doubt <adelikat> klmz, they still do

Posted: 12/6/2010 6:32 AM

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ALAKTORN

He/Him

Former player

Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy

klmz wrote:

I've been thinking of this for a long time: the "less-glitched any%" run doesn't provide much new that the "100% souls" and "glitched any%" doesn't. Could the "less-glitched any%" category of this game be deprecated in favour of other more potential ones such as "Julius all bosses"?

I don't know what goals these runs have but "less glitched" sounds wrong to begin with, imo

Posted: 12/6/2010 7:14 AM

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rhebus

Joined: 2/19/2010
Posts: 248

I agree that there is significant overlap between the any% and 100% Soma runs. But would a Julius 100% be that interesting? The most interesting thing, to me, would be the process of finding the best route; the final product will just be Julius mode any%, the same but more (and with shorter boss fights). In fact I think having Julius any% and Julius 100% would be just as problematic and have just as much entertainment overlap as Soma any% and Soma 100%. Of course, if a Julius 100% were produced, I would watch it and enjoy it, because I love Aria of Sorrow. Just not sure that it's a category that TASvideos is crying out for. If any new category were to be created, I'd say Boss Rush is the mode with the most distinguishing features from the current published movies.

Posted: 12/7/2010 5:03 PM

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Kriole

Experienced player (870)

Joined: 11/26/2007
Posts: 400
Location: Sueeden

moozooh wrote:

Ok, here's a riddle: what's both unexpected and impossibly cool?

Time Machine Horse.

Tub wrote:

Wow, that's impressive! How did you manage to finish such a long WIP in such a short time? Have you been working on it in secrecy or is it due to the LUA scripts?

I started out in secret because, as mentioned, I was just gonna check how much ducking saved. I started getting more serious after finishing the Zombie Soldier corridor, nearly 200 frames ahead of myself. I have to say that the Lua scripts are spoiling me though =p

klmz wrote:

I've been thinking of this for a long time: the "less-glitched any%" run doesn't provide much new that the "100% souls" and "glitched any%" doesn't. Could the "less-glitched any%" category of this game be deprecated in favour of other more potential ones such as "Julius all bosses"?

Sounds reasonable. I'd either like to see a Julius 100%, or a glitched allsouls. I've redone everything from the Arachne corridor and I just finished Cockatrice. I'm about 10 frames ahead of myself and I saved nearly 40 mana. Sweet. Not gonna WIP just yet.

Posted: 12/7/2010 5:57 PM

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klmz

Editor, Emulator Coder, Expert player (2159)

Joined: 5/22/2007
Posts: 1134
Location: Glitchvania

Kriole wrote:

I have to say that the Lua scripts are spoiling me though =p

That's how you made the Final Guard demos so quickly? I should have figured that out according to the incredibly low rerecording count. :/ Aww, I forgot to thank you for the demos in my submission...

Kriole wrote:

Sounds reasonable. I'd either like to see a Julius 100%, or a glitched allsouls.

pirate_sephiroth has been studying the glitch warps but hasn't revealed any useful thing.

rhebus wrote:

If any new category were to be created, I'd say Boss Rush is the mode with the most distinguishing features from the current published movies.

Boss Rush runs have the problem with goal definitions (realtime? Lv99? OoB into BR? OoB within BR?), and one can even get a ridiculously low time record with memory corruption....

<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days <adelikat> no doubt <adelikat> klmz, they still do

Posted: 12/7/2010 9:42 PM

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FreezerBurns

Joined: 5/27/2008
Posts: 57

klmz wrote:

Boss Rush runs have the problem with goal definitions (realtime? Lv99? OoB into BR? OoB within BR?), and one can even get a ridiculously low time record with memory corruption....

I'd think that the time would be based on frames anyway, rather than ingame clock. Also, doesn't the Castlevania series match you to a certain level on boss rushes, for the sake of comparative times?

Posted: 12/9/2010 12:39 AM
(Edited: 12/21/2010 1:49 AM)

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Kriole

Experienced player (870)

Joined: 11/26/2007
Posts: 400
Location: Sueeden

klmz wrote:

That's how you made the Final Guard demos so quickly? I should have figured that out according to the incredibly low rerecording count. :/

No, I actually didn't use any Lua scripts until I started working on this run.

klmz wrote:

Boss Rush runs have the problem with goal definitions (realtime? Lv99? OoB into BR? OoB within BR?), and one can even get a ridiculously low time record with memory corruption....

I suggest just ignoring realtime and going for ingame; switching between souls to make it as entertaining as possible. Also, I'm not quite sure if one should use glitches.

FreezerBurns wrote:

Also, doesn't the Castlevania series match you to a certain level on boss rushes, for the sake of comparative times?

Level 40, iirc. I've progressed back into the Clocktower. I was rather amused at the results; both this new attempt and my old attempt had the Red Door turn red on frame 26311. And both runs had 38 mana. The only difference is that this new attempt already has paused to switch to Winged Skeleton, so that's a 60 frame gain right there. Still have some further testing to do, but this is how it's most likely gonna end up looking. Pie

Posted: 12/9/2010 8:16 AM

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klmz

Editor, Emulator Coder, Expert player (2159)

Joined: 5/22/2007
Posts: 1134
Location: Glitchvania

Just in case you haven't been aware, you can just keep walking to gain EXP and level up in the starting room with Sherman Ring without increasing the Boss Rush timer....

<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days <adelikat> no doubt <adelikat> klmz, they still do

Posted: 12/9/2010 10:30 PM

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rhebus

Joined: 2/19/2010
Posts: 248

Kriole wrote:

I've progressed back into the Clocktower. I was rather amused at the results; both this new attempt and my old attempt had the Red Door turn red on frame 26311. And both runs had 38 mana. The only difference is that this new attempt already has paused to switch to Winged Skeleton, so that's a 60 frame gain right.

Nice. That's ~12 seconds ahead of the published run already. Might it be worth changing to samurai armor when you change to winged skeleton/bone pillar? Is that one of the things you wanted to test? :)

Posted: 12/21/2010 1:46 AM

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Kriole

Experienced player (870)

Joined: 11/26/2007
Posts: 400
Location: Sueeden

It took quite some time, but I finished Death. Pie The fight is not optimal, I have to redo about half of it, but I thought this attempt looked so funny, so I'm just gonna post it before I redo. Currently 700 frames ahead of my v2.

Posted: 12/21/2010 4:49 AM

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eternaljwh

Joined: 3/11/2008
Posts: 583
Location: USA

Kriole wrote:

I've progressed back into the Clocktower. I was rather amused at the results; both this new attempt and my old attempt had the Red Door turn red on frame 26311.

I'm not sure what you're referring to here. Red Door? ...the marching-ants glow around the zone-connector door into the Clocktower, then? edit: Demon mail, too small a boost too late?

Posted: 12/23/2010 10:11 PM

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rhebus

Joined: 2/19/2010
Posts: 248

Kriole wrote:

The fight is not optimal, I have to redo about half of it, but I thought this attempt looked so funny, so I'm just gonna post it before I redo.

Heh, it is kinda funny :)

eternaljwh wrote:

edit: Demon mail, too small a boost too late?

Probably. There's no easy way to pick it up, since you have to kill an extra demon lord to get it; it's unlikely to save the time required for this.

Posted: 1/17/2011 9:35 PM

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Kriole

Experienced player (870)

Joined: 11/26/2007
Posts: 400
Location: Sueeden

Hello! It's been quite a while since I last posted a WIP, I haven't worked very much during the holidays, but I started a few days ago and progress has been excellent, ignoring the fact that I had to redo the Death to the Warp room segment probably 3 or 4 times. There are some really cool time savers in this WIP. I passed through the cog with a kick instead of a high jump, since I had the Bone Pillar equipped. I skipped the Valkyrie soul, since there are many opportunities to get it during the clean-up. Man-Eater was improved GREATLY. Not only did I have enough mana to use Lightning Doll twice, but I also managed to hit 2 of the eyes 3 times with Lightning Doll (rather unimpressive feat, but Man-Eaters garbled cooldown makes this extremely hard). I also managed to do a glitched level-up screen on the Man-Eater, which was ridiculously hard without taking damage. The rest is pretty self-explanatory. Many pause screens were skipped, which is quite awesome. Pie 1272 frames ahead of myself. And thank you to anyone who voted for my v2 in the awards! I think that was really cool.

Posted: 1/17/2011 11:03 PM

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