Just barely noticed this new WIP. Looking good. I particularly like the extra stuff you do while waiting for Giles to get where he needs to go.
I didn't know Nasir could spin like that... :)
Can't wait to see the next portion.
[08:03] <PJ> i found improvements to the lagoon TAS!
[08:39] <PJ> oh very minor
[08:39] <PJ> well he doesnt have to go to Poper first before collecting the Mint
[08:39] <PJ> he can go straight to siegfried castle and get the mint, then go straight to the church and give it to the cleric
[08:40] <PJ> he goes in the town first and talks to some people
After watching PJ from SDA fight Ella for a couple hours, we noticed that she has a set pattern. From his save file outside the cave it is 3 9 3 9 7 7 9 9. PJ is pretty sure this is not the case all the time. Does anyone know what randomness seeds this formula, or perhaps also what the formula is to generate these numbers?EDIT: Maybe Ella's stopping pattern is constant and he was miscounting previously. Will update if there is more issue. Her teleport location information would be helpful too if that's available. (If a map could be made of all of her teleport locations or something that would be superb, but that is a fair bit of effort, so any information would be appreciated.)
He would like to console speedrun it in the future, so this information would be helpful.
I was trying to help PJ understand how to fight her, so I mapped out her possible positions. I think she may actually be possible to beat semi consistently, heh. I don't need anything any more, but do note that PJ thought he found a timesaver as detailed in my previous post.
Note: There are ~16 spawns in each cluster. I just didn't run the script quite long enough.
Joined: 12/8/2012
Posts: 706
Location: Missouri, USA
*bump*
We need a 10-year anniversary edition ;) Looking forward to seeing an updated run!
"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." - 1 Corinthians 2:9
I have considered starting a run myself as well, but I'm a newbie at TASing, and need a bit of help with the route planning and luck manipulation stuff.
I know the game quite well, and have even compiled a spreadsheet to calculate the minimum level for each of the bosses based on the info in this thread. I think the next step would be to map out where each of the enemies spawn at and calculate the best leveling strategy from there, which will take quite some time.
BTW, I've noticed that a couple of the experience charts out there have conflicting amounts of experience for the later levels. I think confirming which chart is correct will be needed as well.
Edit: After looking a the charts again, the values aren't different, they're just labeling the levels differently, some showing how much experience is needed to reach that level, the others showing how much is needed to go to the next level. At any rate, my calculator should still be correct for finding the minimum levels.
I have considered starting a run myself as well, but I'm a newbie at TASing, and need a bit of help with the route planning and luck manipulation stuff.
I know the game quite well, and have even compiled a spreadsheet to calculate the minimum level for each of the bosses based on the info in this thread. I think the next step would be to map out where each of the enemies spawn at and calculate the best leveling strategy from there, which will take quite some time.
BTW, I've noticed that a couple of the experience charts out there have conflicting amounts of experience for the later levels. I think confirming which chart is correct will be needed as well.
Edit: After looking a the charts again, the values aren't different, they're just labeling the levels differently, some showing how much experience is needed to reach that level, the others showing how much is needed to go to the next level. At any rate, my calculator should still be correct for finding the minimum levels.
Sorry about the time gap. I missed this post.
I looked into it a long time ago and pretty much came to the conclusion that we're essentially going to be doing pitty damage to every boss because grinding is much slower. My last WIP in the thread I manipulated essentially every nearby enemy to come to my sword without slowing down and I still wound up being well short of the level 6 required to do more than 2 damage to Samson. And because iirc, enemies are only regenerated between screen transitions (screwing up the possibility of having a tight grinding loop and forcing a ~1200 frame delay each iteration for the two screen transitions), and because even dealing pitty damage a TAS can take care of bosses very quickly.
It seems like at this point the only real plus to killing enemies is lag reduction and damage avoidance at this point. :/
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day,
Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
And because iirc, enemies are only regenerated between screen transitions (screwing up the possibility of having a tight grinding loop and forcing a ~1200 frame delay each iteration for the two screen transitions), and because even dealing pitty damage a TAS can take care of bosses very quickly.
Big gap for me on this one. Been wrapped up in other things, including a 3-week road trip with my grandfather back in April.
Enemies will regenerate if they've been killed or left the screen far enough to despawn, and their spawn point is far enough off screen. There's a loop in the upper level not far from the cave that leads to Giles that I frequently use for grinding in real time runs. I forget the exact numbers right now, but there's about 6-8 enemies that respawn each time through.
Edit: There's also a loop I sometimes take in the northern room of the Dwarf Cave, should more grinding be needed before Eardon, as well as one in the Ice Cave preparing for Thimale. None of them are super-efficient, but they're possible.
Perhaps I'll work on figuring out spawn locations on each map next, though that will take a while to nail down. At least there are only two or three enemy types per area to deal with.
And because iirc, enemies are only regenerated between screen transitions (screwing up the possibility of having a tight grinding loop and forcing a ~1200 frame delay each iteration for the two screen transitions), and because even dealing pitty damage a TAS can take care of bosses very quickly.
Big gap for me on this one. Been wrapped up in other things, including a 3-week road trip with my grandfather back in April.
Enemies will regenerate if they've been killed or left the screen far enough to despawn, and their spawn point is far enough off screen. There's a loop in the upper level not far from the cave that leads to Giles that I frequently use for grinding in real time runs. I forget the exact numbers right now, but there's about 6-8 enemies that respawn each time through.
Edit: There's also a loop I sometimes take in the northern room of the Dwarf Cave, should more grinding be needed before Eardon, as well as one in the Ice Cave preparing for Thimale. None of them are super-efficient, but they're possible.
Perhaps I'll work on figuring out spawn locations on each map next, though that will take a while to nail down. At least there are only two or three enemy types per area to deal with.
Cool, perhaps the easiest way would be to take the TAS and use RAM watch and my documentation a page back to find their locations when I enter the area.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day,
Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
I've done a bit of experimenting with the RAM watch, and come up with more details on some of the addresses you had questions on, and some clarifications on what you've already identified. I'm not quite ready to upload everything yet, but I've already worked out the first 20 or so bytes of Nasir's character table and the related elements of the Escorted NPC table used by Giles inside the Gold Cave and Thor in Elf Field. (Interestingly, Thor uses a different address while you're in Voloh, presumably one of the general purpose NPC blocks.)
I also figured out that the ROM I had been using for a while was overdumped, but still syncs with movies made for the good dumps. All the RAM Watch addresses also appear to work properly, but I switched over to the good dump just to be on the safe side from now on.
While not really important to a TAS, there also seem to be conflicting reports out there regarding the amount of gold you get from chests that would have contained items you got elsewhere. Several people reported that they're always worth 350 gold, but my testing and experience show that they're worth 10x your current level. Makes me wonder if the people who reported the 350 all the time also played with cheats on to get them to level 35 early, or got so lost in the Gold Cave that they managed to kill over 20000 skeletons...
Just finished watching the live run during AGDQ, and they brought up a couple interesting things that need testing and could greatly affect the route.
First, they mentioned that when the Power and Defensive rings are equipped, the boost stays until either Nasir's level changes or the equip screen is brought up. I'll definitely need to look into that one.
Second, they mentioned that the final form of the final boss is immune to all but the Moon Blade. If true, this means the Moon Blade will need to stay on the route no matter what.
All in all, it was a pretty good run, finishing in just over 1:30:00. Not as fast as the published TAS, and not the runner's personal best, but still a decent time.
Edit: They also mentioned the published TAS a few times during the run. So nice to see that live runners and TASers are recognizing each others' efforts.
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
Thanks! I have put it on hold (surprise, surprise) because of DTC6, but I also have some ideas about how to maybe save TAS time on this.
Though, I must admit a certain level of frustration with Giles. Not looking forward to leading Thor around by the nose either.
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
Though, I must admit a certain level of frustration with Giles. Not looking forward to leading Thor around by the nose either.
At least Thor doesn't need to be led very long. Just from his spot in Voloh to the exit, then from where he stops on the field back to Voloh's entrance. It's the main reason for getting the tablet outside Phillips Castle before entering Voloh, otherwise you need to lead Thor to the castle grounds as well.
Thanks for the pointer. I haven't been working on Lagoon lately because of work and DTC6, but I will keep this in mind.
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
Though, I must admit a certain level of frustration with Giles. Not looking forward to leading Thor around by the nose either.
At least Thor doesn't need to be led very long. Just from his spot in Voloh to the exit, then from where he stops on the field back to Voloh's entrance. It's the main reason for getting the tablet outside Phillips Castle before entering Voloh, otherwise you need to lead Thor to the castle grounds as well.
Thor paths by himself for the first bit as well.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day,
Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Yeah, I thought he paths himself all the way to the tablet on his own.
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
Note: There are ~16 spawns in each cluster. I just didn't run the script quite long enough.
