Submission Text Full Submission Page
There are many methods for passing a classic game like Super Mario Bros, for example, warpless and walkathon. The movie I made aimed at a different strategy, to complete this game with the lowest score (500) without using replay, which is still scarce here.

Goals:

  • Complete the game with the lowest score (500)
    • As fast as possible
      • As entertaining as I can

How come 500 is the lowest score?

Good question. Super Mario Bros can be completed without touching any enemies or getting any goods, which few one could imagine I believe. The only necessary kind of points is getting 100 points when you grab the flagpole in each stages.
But getting the lowest score may not be as simple as you think. As a matter of fact, there really are some places where are hard to get through without any points. 4-2, for example. You can get no point either by climbing the vine with the help of the lift or by entering the pipe like I did in this run. And for the big hole in 8-1 that has 2 coins above it, you can hardly survive from that one.
In 1-1, 4-1, 8-1, 8-2, 8-3, you have to wait for the time decreases to 0, or you'll get more than just 100 points on the flagpole, possibly fireworks, too. I did the flagpole glitch everytime as same as always, because it's the fastest way. I have tried to make the flagpole send Mario to the left to end the level, but unfortunately it goes slowlier for some reasons.

A lowest score run can be entertaining

In people's opinions, waiting for the time goes by is kind of boring. No, it can be as entertaining as any other speedruns.
I have performed lots of tricks to keep this movie entertaining all the way. For example, walljumps, moonwalks, wall passing, and hiding from enemies. Those are several skills that are often shown in this movie, there are other tricks that have never shown before in my runs, too.

Most entertaining parts of this run

You don't want to miss these following performances, do you?
  • 1-1: Gaining a jumping mushroom, due to the help of the jumping star
  • 4-1: Walking between 2 spines that were so closed to Mario
  • 8-1: Walljumping backwards and forwards
  • 8-2: Getting the 1UP mushroom upside-down by design
  • 8-3: Playing jokes on hammer brothers
  • A special dance for all in the end of 8-3
A nice snapshot for everyone, hope you like this run!

Nach: This run is a bit shocking. I sat down to watch it thinking 15 minutes is going to be a snooze. Much to my surprise and delight, this run is a lot more exciting than I expected. Mario dances figure eights around enemies as if they weren't even there. Reminds me of Gradius. The first level was very boring, but 4-1 is a lot more exciting with the Spinys raining down. 8-1 is a pure delight. 8-2 and 8-3 are in a league of their own. Playing with the Hammer Bros. is one of the most exciting things I've seen in a TAS. Dancing to the music was appreciated too.
Overall, I think this run provides a lot more entertainment than a standard 5 minute TAS of this game. In terms of meeting its defined goals it also does it well. For the goals in question, speed-wise, this movie will also be hard to beat.
Now the question is, does this deserve publication or not? There is a lot of time seemingly "wasted", and the beginning is lackluster. On the other hand, so are playarounds of other games filled with auto-scrolling. The Judge Guidelines state: "A run for a proposed new branch for a game should offer compelling differences relative to previously published runs of that game.". I think that is undeniable fact in this case. Further: "don't publish an arbitrarily rule-restricted movie just because there are too few movies for that game; doing so may lead to impossible-to-solve 'why A but not B' debates later.". A role of "lowest possible score" is less arbitrary than a lot of other goals we've seen people submit. Accepting this certainly wouldn't be solely because there are too few runs for this game.
Then there's the player guidelines which state: "Please note that we do not accept an indefinite number of variants for any given game. Any more than 3 for a game is very uncommon.". It's not a hard limit, so I can see us bending the rules if a run really deserves it. But does it? This run only has a 40% approval rating.
If we cut out the "perfect" parts of the run such as 1-2, 4-2, and 8-4, we're left with levels which need to "waste time" and provide a lot of entertainment. If we can put 1-1, and the slow parts of 4-1 in one movie, and the rest of it in another movie, I think we'd have a consensus to reject the former and accept the latter as a playaround. As it stands, I can't see this movie being anything more than a concept movie.
So should I reject it based on the former, or accept it as a concept run based on the latter? I'll reserve judgment for a few more days in hope that others will refute pros or cons I listed here. Please comment on these points.

Nach: Thanks for everyone who commented further. It seems the added entertainment to this run is outweighed by the boring sections and the repetitiveness of the entertainment itself. Rejecting.
feos: After thinking for 12 years about this movie and how loaded it is with cool techniques just to burn time, I believe it makes perfect sense to send it to Playground. No I don't plan to unreject anything else until we shrink the queue. Just wanted to move this real quick since it requires no extra work for anyone.


Joined: 8/3/2008
Posts: 157
Location: The Land Down Under
Flygon wrote:
This is why we have the Gruefood Delight.
This^ Hence my no vote.
Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 150
Too slow and repetitive I got bored before the end of the first level.. I do think it's kinda cool that you beat the game with 500 points. Didn't think it was possible, but you did it. In other news, this did use no caps, coins, or cannons.
Joined: 2/20/2010
Posts: 209
Location: I'm in space
I thought this was HYSTERICAL, and despite being repeated many times, the arsenal of glitches showcased was sufficiently varied to remain entertaining *enough* throughout. I don't think a "lowest score" run could possibly be any more action-packed than this, and for a game as classic as SMB1, I think "lowest score" is a reasonable and well-defined, albeit bizarre, goal. At the very least I really, really hope this run lives on SOMEhow, whether as a playaround or otherwise. =) EDIT: The mushroom/hammer brothers circus act in 8-3 is epic, I think the run deserves a YES just to ensure future visitors to the site will have a chance to see that.
Oh, play it cool. Play it cool. Here come the space cops.
NitroGenesis
He/Him
Editor, Experienced player (556)
Joined: 12/24/2009
Posts: 1873
I voted no, it seem well made, but boring as hell. "Look at me, I jumped into a pipe. Whup! I just got into a wall. "Basically that for 15 min. Not entertaining
YoungJ1997lol wrote:
Normally i would say Yes, but thennI thought "its not the same hack" so ill stick with meh.
Joined: 10/14/2010
Posts: 27
Location: California
Perhaps making the low-score goal a little less stringent might make thins into an interesting playaround. Obviously, the technical skill is amazing, but it is, at the moment, neither in the spirit of a playaround or a true TAS.

i.e., still show off the tricks, bounce between the goombas, juggle the mushroom, make the impossible jumps, and then end the level and get some flag points before it gets too boring. This can even be themed a Mario "pacifist" run or the like, to give it a nice title. But I think this certainly belongs in the "playaround" category, and should have the entertainment/sticking-to-goals balance adjusted accordingly.
>> Standing on head makes smile of frown, but rest of face also upside down
Joined: 7/10/2008
Posts: 56
There were some fun moments in this, especially in 8-3 with the hammer brother playaround, but for the most part it seemed lacking. Nice concept and executed very well, but too many moments where I wanted to hit the fast forward key. Voting Meh
i see...
Editor, Player (44)
Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 1029
Probably a good source of Gruefood Delight; I watched it all, but it was just a bit too repetitive. There's only so much you can do to entertain while waiting for the time counter to run out. (Voted no.)
Editor, Expert player (2073)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3282
I liked the playing around with the hammer bros, but other than that, during most of the playing around, it seemed like "what's the point?". There just isn't enough interesting stuff (without scoring) to fill 3 minutes of waiting for each of 5 levels. Voting no.
Emulator Coder
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
HappyLee wrote:
You see, some Chinese TASer and I have discussed about that, turns out that 64.8% of us think that it's impossible to get the maximum score(9999950, that is, with 7 digits).
And why would that be? Last I checked, you keep your score through second quest (or was that only later ports of the game?). That being the case, you just do a full run through a couple times. I for one would also like to see TASs of SMB second quest.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Site Admin, Skilled player (1254)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11475
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
And what we have here? http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2778 Oh! 5 years old topic :p
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Emulator Coder
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
Please see my comment in the first post of the thread and comment. #2908: HappyLee's NES Super Mario Bros. "lowest score" in 14:32.80
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Joined: 2/20/2010
Posts: 209
Location: I'm in space
I read Nach's notes and can understand how there really is no obvious "correct" decision. Since I first saw the run, my personal take has always been that - as there is neither a rule that clearly justifies nor disqualifies its publication - it should be published on the grounds that it is fucking awesome, and while it's true that a little editing would produce a fine goal-less playaround, I think achieving a well-defined and difficult goal within the context of a game as classic as Super Mario Bros is reason enough to leave it in its current form. That said, I will be SAD if this run is consumed by the grue, and never again sees the light of day, because I really think it's quite special and deserves to be published SOMEwhere - even if it's concept-land.
Oh, play it cool. Play it cool. Here come the space cops.
Joined: 7/25/2007
Posts: 109
Flygon wrote:
This is why we have the Gruefood Delight.
Okay, fair enough, so then that section could really use an overhaul I suppose. It just seems so...ghetto, for lack of a better term. :/ Plus it's rather obscure. Why not like, make that section more "official" or something, if it's gotten enough support?
Banned User
Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland
I'd say the major problem with the run is that there's only a limited number of tricks that can be shown, and the author is forced to wait for a rather long time before completing a level, and hence the run becomes inevitably quite repetitive. If the level timer was significantly lower, or if there were fewer levels to complete, it may be more entertaining, but as it is, I think it's just a bit too long.
mklip2001
He/Him
Editor
Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 2227
Location: Georgia, USA
Out of all the options posted here, I like Lord Tom's idea the best. This game can use a playaround, and this is a solid playaround which adheres to a well-defined goal. I approve of publishing this as a concept demo, with the idea that another playaround could obsolete it. I'm voting Yes. However, I'm not sure this is the fastest way to beat the game with 500 points. What if you rush ahead, die, and respawn with less time on the clock? This would make the movie less entertaining, but it would pass time more quickly, and you do get enough extra lives to make this possible.
Used to be a frequent submissions commenter. My new computer has had some issues running emulators, so I've been here more sporadically. Still haven't gotten around to actually TASing yet... I was going to improve Kid Dracula for GB. It seems I was beaten to it, though, with a recent awesome run by Hetfield90 and StarvinStruthers. (http://tasvideos.org/2928M.html.) Thanks to goofydylan8 for running Gargoyle's Quest 2 because I mentioned the game! (http://tasvideos.org/2001M.html) Thanks to feos and MESHUGGAH for taking up runs of Duck Tales 2 because of my old signature! Thanks also to Samsara for finishing a Treasure Master run. From the submission comments:
Shoutouts and thanks to mklip2001 for arguably being the nicest and most supportive person on the forums.
Editor, Expert player (2329)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3933
Location: Germany
It would be news to me to hear that SMB respawns Mario with less time on the clock after he dies. And I also like the idea of accepting this movie until a real playaround is made.
Player (121)
Joined: 2/11/2007
Posts: 1522
System Error wrote:
Flygon wrote:
This is why we have the Gruefood Delight.
Okay, fair enough, so then that section could really use an overhaul I suppose. It just seems so...ghetto, for lack of a better term. :/ Plus it's rather obscure. Why not like, make that section more "official" or something, if it's gotten enough support?
http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=252781#252781 I agree (surprising, I know)
I make a comic with no image files and you should read it. While there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free. -Eugene Debs
Editor, Player (44)
Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 1029
As a direct response to Nach's comment, this fails as a speedrun (obviously, too much waiting), but has merit as a playaround. Unfortunately, it's a bit repetitive to be interesting as a playaround, for me; removing the lowest-score restriction would presumably allow for a rather less repetitive playaround. I'd suggest removing the lowest-score goal, and abandon all pretence that it's a speedrun, in order to make for a better and more entertaining movie overall.
Experienced player (828)
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
ais523 wrote:
I'd suggest removing the lowest-score goal, and abandon all pretence that it's a speedrun, in order to make for a better and more entertaining movie overall.
I don't find SMB particularly entertaining no matter which way it's presented, but I agree with the above ^. Taking out the obscene amount of repetitive wall-jumping would make for a much more "clean" movie, and a much more enjoyable one.
Living Well Is The Best Revenge My Personal Page
Active player (428)
Joined: 9/7/2007
Posts: 329
My initial impression was "Yes", but after reading the comments, I voted "Meh". It was very impressive, but it was repetitive. I agree with others that a better run would instead be a "playaround" lasting about half the time of this run. That also allows playing in EVERY level. Another added benefit of allowing points is that stomping enemies would be allowed, which would add entertainment value. I still think avoiding the visible coins could still be done as it is entertaining in itself.
Joined: 6/4/2009
Posts: 570
Location: 33°07'41"S, 160°42'04"W
While I liked this run and its well-definited goal (lowest score), I somehow have to agree that a playaround might be more entertaining. As long as it displays many more glitches, including various kinds of flagpole glitches, or crazy enemy killing combos, and so on... Maybe even suboptimal warps (e.g. from 1-2 to 3-1 instead of 4-1) if the third world can be used to perform interesting glitches (it probably doesn't, this is just an example). I'll gladly watch 20 minutes of funny playaround if they were worth it. That said, my yes vote for this run stands still.
Player (193)
Joined: 10/23/2010
Posts: 49
Location: Australia
It took me a while to decide, but I'm going with a no. I really do like the movie due to the variation of tricks and glitches utilised but the amount of wall-jumps was ridiculous and repetitive and I nearly stopped watching in 8-1 because of it. Despite that it got better in later stages, it was still too repetitive for me.
BigBoct
He/Him
Editor, Former player
Joined: 8/9/2007
Posts: 1692
Location: Tiffin/Republic, OH
Can someone provide an MP4 encode? My computer's PSU is failing, so I can't use it, which means all my video watching has to be on the PS3.
Previous Name: boct1584
Joined: 2/20/2010
Posts: 209
Location: I'm in space
ais523 wrote:
As a direct response to Nach's comment, this fails as a speedrun (obviously, too much waiting) ... I'd suggest removing the lowest-score goal, and abandon all pretence that it's a speedrun
This sort of argument keeps appearing in the thread, and I totally disagree with it, because even though there is a lot of waiting, by definition this is absolutely a speedrun, as it achieves a specific, well-defined goal in the shortest time possible. To get the lowest score, waiting until the timer reaches zero is necessary. There are many published movies on this site that deliberately take a longer route and/or have unavoidable waiting periods for the sake of accomplishing a goal other than the standard Get-To-The-Credits-ASAP. I really think this meets all technical qualifications for publication in its current form, and the only matter to debate is whether it's just a boring goal choice - and I think it would be if not for the top-notch playaround entertainment - but I guess the current vote tally suggests most feel otherwise (bleah).
Oh, play it cool. Play it cool. Here come the space cops.
Site Admin, Skilled player (1254)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11475
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
boct1584 Processing
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.