Joined: 12/16/2008
Posts: 61
Location: a brontosaurus... havin' breakfast
if the front page is any indication a run of this would probably pass pretty easily, provided enough people show support for it
Joined: 3/11/2008
Posts: 583
Location: USA
in re: Combos Just from watching miscellaneous videos of M3, it appears that a full combo gets you roughly double damage of single-hit, with greater portions of this additional half on hits 4?, 8, 12, 16. Whether it's worth doing will depend a bit on the music tempo, I daresay.
Joined: 12/16/2008
Posts: 61
Location: a brontosaurus... havin' breakfast
it's funny how more progress has been made on this run at sda than has at tasvideos. nonetheless, here's a crosspost of whats been figgered so far:
DoubleThink wrote:
I have some interest in running this game too, what with it being a GBA game and all, providing I can find a copy at some point. This will be a lot further down the line mind you, probably next year at the earliest. In the meantime, I can help test random stuff out too, such as... THE PHYSICAL DAMAGE FORMULA!!!!!!!! ...Well, at least for party -> enemy attacks anyway. Each point of enemy Defence reduces damage by 4/3, or 1.3333333333333333333333 etc. For example, if an enemy has 81 Defence, that will reduce the damage taken from a physical attack by 108 damage. Simple! Offence is slightly more complicated. Its multiplier seems to be staggered, such that lower Offence ratings have larger multipliers than higher ones. It hovers at about 5/3 for a rating of 190, and doesn't vary by a large amount- certainly not anything large enough to cause a lower rating to do more than a higher one (outside of random variation obviously). This also means that a charcter's Offence can be lower than an enemies' Defence and still cause more than 1 damage. Despite this, I can't see Duster or Boney doing much damage outside of item use in a speedrun :-\ So, to clarify: Physical Hit Damage = (Offence x variable) - (Defence x 4/3), varying within a +/-10% range. I checked this over a range of values and spent quite a while puzzling over it so I'm pretty sure it's consistent, outside of the unknown factor. Haven't tried SMAAAAAAAASH hits or combos yet. The RNG seems to be seeded (i.e. choose the same actions on a given turn and the exact same thing will happen each time), which could mean that battles could be planned or completely screw you over before even starting them. I'm not sure if opening the menu will make a difference like it does in EarthBound, due to the difference in its design. That's all for now, except that the Reconstructed Caribou is also vulnerable to Wall Staples, so there might not be any reason to get Thunder Bombs for that fight after all.
DoubleThink wrote:
Hey cool a bump :o Now I can post about how combo damage works! :D I believe these are the multipliers: Hit No. | Dmg% | Total Multiplier 1 |100 | 1.00x 2 | 25 | 1.25x 3 | 15 | 1.40x 4 | 10 | 1.50x 5 | 8 | 1.58x 6 | 7 | 1.65x 7 | 6 | 1.71x 8 | 20 | 1.91x 9 | 5 | 1.96x 10 | 4 | 2.00x 11 | 3 | 2.03x 12 | 20 | 2.23x 13 | 3 | 2.26x 14 | 2 | 2.28x 15 | 2 | 2.30x 16 | 20 | 2.50x These multipliers fit with the combo testing I did, and when I saw that they added up to exactly 2.5 I figured they must be about right. These also vary within a +/-10% range, and each hit (or at least certain ones, I've definitely seen it happen) can also be a SMAAASH hit. Speaking of which, SMAAASH hits multiply damage by 1.5x; a good amount, but nowhere near as much as in Earthbound... aaand they tend to muck up my combo timing if it's the first hit :( I don't know what the chance is because there's no Guts stat anymore. The best length for a combo will depend on the battle in question, based on a) how fast the music is b) how hard it is to combo with, and c) how much damage needs to be done. About 8 sounds right as the max number of combo hits to do at any point; 4 if it can be managed. Hopefully this table should make it easy to find the amount of damage a combo of certain length will do :) Also note that this means early-game combos are actually more effective, because the game rounds up to 1 damage. Next up is probably learning how to work the RNG, when to gain levels for efficient learning of PSI, and also how to heal efficiently because spas take waaay too long most of the time >_>; And good luck for an SS run, the later chapters are either going to be ridiculously hard or require some serious grinding methinks :(
Joined: 10/10/2009
Posts: 1
i just want to throw this out here that ive started doing small videos of myself playing tool assisted mother 3 http://www.youtube.com/user/ZeroShift0 these are my first times using frame advance, i suck at it, and i have no intention of speed running the entire game, i will however continue making these short videos
Joined: 2/1/2008
Posts: 347
Apparently somebody started doing a TAS of this game (using the English translation). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2u66VD2G4MQ
<ccfreak2k> There is no 'ctrl' button on DeHackEd's computer. DeHackEd is always in control.
Editor, Skilled player (1441)
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Posts: 2113
Hm, while I love this game, I don't think it'd make a good TAS since it's mostly cutscenes. And then there's the whole, translations won't get accepted business, so I don't think Mother3 will ever be on TASvideos.
Joined: 11/4/2007
Posts: 1772
Location: Australia, Victoria
I'm disappointed in the lack of faith in the translation. I'd vote no on a Japanese TAS because I wouldn't be able to understand it... Mother 3 has a very good story line if there isn't any significant sequence breaking, and if there is such breaking? I vote yes to the Japanese edition. Entertainment value drops significantly on a non-translated non-sequence breaking Mother 3 TAS, in my opinion, we could at least have an understandable storyline.
Editor, Skilled player (1441)
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Come to think of it, the Japanese version should've less lag because of less text on the screen.
Joined: 4/29/2005
Posts: 1212
Personally, I don't see the big deal about translation patches. All they do is change the damn language! I for one still think that a TAS using the English Translation would be best, it would allow everyone to follow along and understand what the hell is going on.
Joined: 6/2/2008
Posts: 25
Glad to see someone did a run of it. Even though this site will never officially recognize it because it uses a translation patch.
(???)
Editor, Skilled player (1441)
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The translation patch wouldn't be the problem imo, due to its quality and popularity. Most of the run is just cutscenes, running around to the next cutscene, more cutscenes.
Joined: 2/1/2008
Posts: 347
I see no problem with an English TAS, but I would prefer seeing one that glitches through the game. This game is quite epic... so a full run, though nice to have around, would be hard for me, who has played the entire game, to watch. Unfortunately the game seems fairly resilient to glitches... I haven't tried to glitch it out, but I didn't find any problems with the game when I played through. For one thing, unlike Earthbound, every area is in a different map. However, it sounded like the game is haphazardly programmed (according to the translator, the ROM is a mess), so with enough effort, glitches could be found. I just wonder how much glitches could save timewise.
<ccfreak2k> There is no 'ctrl' button on DeHackEd's computer. DeHackEd is always in control.
Editor, Skilled player (1441)
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Speaking of, what do we do if there's a glitch that works in the translated version but doesn't in the Japanese?
Joined: 2/1/2008
Posts: 347
scrimpeh wrote:
Speaking of, what do we do if there's a glitch that works in the translated version but doesn't in the Japanese?
Well... I would guess that you couldn't use that glitch, since it was not "officially" introduced. I am guessing that is how the judges would rule.
<ccfreak2k> There is no 'ctrl' button on DeHackEd's computer. DeHackEd is always in control.
Limne
Any
Joined: 2/24/2010
Posts: 153
However, it sounded like the game is haphazardly programmed (according to the translator, the ROM is a mess), so with enough effort, glitches could be found. I just wonder how much glitches could save timewise.
The Earthbound ROM was supposedly the same way and we know how that one turned out :) Tomato actually commented on the WIP here: http://earthboundcentral.com/2010/04/mother-3-tool-assisted-speed-run/#comments There might be some interesting stuff in terms of possible glitches there. It rather sounds like the translation processes involved quite a bit of hacking and screwiness to make it work. I didn't think this would be a very good choice of game, but I do rather think it's a nice way to see the story recapped, and it is a good story. A run that took advantage of glitches to sequence break would probably be unwatchable as far as I'm concerned
arflech
He/Him
Joined: 5/3/2008
Posts: 1120
I lol'd at the Rope Snake.
i imgur com/QiCaaH8 png
Limne
Any
Joined: 2/24/2010
Posts: 153
The best part has to be running right past the ultimate chimera.
Joined: 2/1/2008
Posts: 347
By the way, if somebody decides to submit a run here, they probably should use the 1.1 patch. It fixes a few minor typos and some of the bugs in the game (these bugs were probably minor ones, like having an extra "The" in front of the player's name in battle, but probably nothing that would allow you to glitch through the game). However, I don't think we should reject a run that uses 1.0. It would be bad if somebody started using 1.0 and finished it, then had to switch to 1.1. I'm just saying that 1.1 probably should be preferred.
<ccfreak2k> There is no 'ctrl' button on DeHackEd's computer. DeHackEd is always in control.
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Why would you not use the 1.1. patch anyway?
Joined: 2/1/2008
Posts: 347
The TAS that I linked to uses the 1.0 patch. You can see the version number by looking at the "This is a translation" splash that pops up at the beginning of the first video. That is why I decided to bring this up.
<ccfreak2k> There is no 'ctrl' button on DeHackEd's computer. DeHackEd is always in control.
Limne
Any
Joined: 2/24/2010
Posts: 153
Well, it's done now so I hope he submits it. It's long, but I'd vote yes on it. I really enjoyed watching it and was surprised that the story was as effective as it was coming out at that pace. Also, quite a change of pace to see someone playing this game struggling to survive.
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Joined: 5/4/2005
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Location: Onett, Eagleland
I sure as hell will vote yes. I think it's so stupid considering how many exceptions have already been made for other runs, such as runs using SRAM's to play as bonus characters, hacked roms, etc... What's the big deal on a translation patch? It pains me to see FFV TAS'd in Japanese because I can't really follow along with anything, simply because a translation patch is not allowed. It's just such a stupid rule. If the patch is high quality and can be verified nothing has changed except text, I don't see the problem. I encourage him to submit it.
I think.....therefore I am not Barry Burton
mz
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Joined: 10/26/2007
Posts: 693
Pasky13 wrote:
If the patch [...] can be verified nothing has changed except text
Sure it can be verified... Will anyone ever do it? No. The code of the game, for this kind of translations, is heavily modified. It's pretty much impossible to know if something besides the text routines or whatever is changed... (Unless you have a *lot* of time to waste...)
Pasky13 wrote:
What's the big deal on a translation patch? [...] It's just such a stupid rule.
I think translation patches aren't allowed because most of them don't work when emulation becomes more accurate... And we shouldn't keep supporting buggy emulators just because of this.
Pasky13 wrote:
I think it's so stupid considering how many exceptions have already been made for other runs, such as runs using SRAM's to play as bonus characters, hacked roms, etc...
Using SRAMs can be verified with another movie that generates them. Translated ROMS have the original ROM as an alternative (verified 100% working on real hardware, etc etc), hacked ROMs don't have a real alternative, so it's a hacked ROM or nothing (unlike translated ROMs...)
You're just fucking stupid, everyone hates you, sorry to tell you the truth. no one likes you, you're someone pretentious and TASes only to be on speed game, but don't have any hope, you won't get there.
Joined: 2/1/2008
Posts: 347
Mother 3 English works on the real hardware, btw... There are translation notes too, giving a summary of what changed.
<ccfreak2k> There is no 'ctrl' button on DeHackEd's computer. DeHackEd is always in control.
Editor, Skilled player (1441)
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I guess there can't just be one simple rule as to what gets accepted and what doesn't, and deciding on a case-by-case basis will always leave someone whining about what translations get accepted and what don't. I personally would say that a TAS is about speed, and in case of a translation, the one should be picked that's faster. If I want to know about the Story of a game, I watch a Let's Play or Play it myself.