Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
So KirkQ is saying that he'd like to see a run that was about the game's chronology and major story points. And there's nothing wrong with that. Whether or not that's the run that'll be made is a different matter. Personally I'm ambivalent on the issue, mainly because all the plot cutscenes take so bloody long.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Player (36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2630
I'd personally would rather the no RBA or massive sequence breaking in the All Temples Run. But that's just me.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
Kirkq wrote:
The glory of the previous run was that it showcased the core of the game without completely abusing sequence breaks. I don't want to see such a good core storyline run of a game turned into a sequence broken collectathon. I don't think that is what this category is about.
Äääääääh no it wasn't. Bloobs run skiped and switched a lot. This is just using the DoT skip and thus skipping the OoT- and some other cutscenes. That will make the run a lot more watchable, imo. There won't be any BA or RBA in this run btw., since that would really defeat the purpose of this run. The purpose is to show off all the dungeons and bosses. @Grunz Looks really good this far. Though you might have to cut down on Chus a little if we need some for adault. I guess we'll see it then.
Joined: 10/20/2006
Posts: 1248
I'm all for an all bosses run. All medalions is a bit arbitrary because you can get them with RBA (losing the light one, however). I don't see why BA and RBA should be forbidden in an all bosses run. (or at least all major bosses, so you can skip the octopus >_>) What would RBA or BA be used for anyways in such a run? Refilling chus? That's entertaining imo. I'm also very much in favor of any way of skipping cut scenes. Ham-ham! ^o^
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
- refilling chus - BA hammer on B, effectively skipping all of the fire temple - RBA the quiver, effectively skipping the forest temple In short you would have pretty much no temples left and that would just be sad, since MST is there to showcase all the glitches in them.
Joined: 10/20/2006
Posts: 1248
:/ Ok, I get it, that would be bad. Fire Temple would currently be done by hovering from the top room through the wall in the boss key room? And by BAing the hammer a much more boring form of hovering would be used, is that correct? I'm not sure what would happen to Forest Temple though. RBAing the quiver only gives you one shot and only if you have fire/ice or light-arrows. You'd have to use RBA for every single shot, so you wouldn't be able to use the sword in between. Would that really be faster than just getting the bow?
Experienced player (603)
Joined: 2/8/2009
Posts: 656
no, kuwaga you can either RBA arrows or the quiver. with ruto's letter you RBA for arrows and with cojiro you RBA for the quiver. if you RBA for arrows, you get 20-30 items (up to the item in the bottle, when you RBA), but as you have no quiver, the arrow count goes down to 0 after shooting one arrow if you RBA for the quiver, you can use as many arrows as you want. we would get cojiro and RBA the quiver, then we buy a few arrows from the shop in kakariko and beat forest temple by going into the second room and doing the boss key skip discovered by unreal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOl9TnWxCx8 fire temple would immediately use this trick after entering the temple: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxJNes3c5hg makes the whole thing a bit boring, doesn't it? and the main reason, why I'm definately going to use the DoT skip is, that I want to create a very different run than bloob's one. if I wouldn't use it, the only differences would be: - my dodongo's cavern head skip - unreal's forest temple boss key skip instead of acryte's old one bloob used - my fire temple boss key skip - slingshot skip not really worth for doing a TAS in my opinion, that takes 6-8 month to do
Joined: 10/20/2006
Posts: 1248
Ah, I didn't know you could really get the quiver using Kojiro. Does it really work without messing up the inventory? Or are no other inventory items needed that are affected by Kojiro after the glitch is performed? (So that it wouldn't matter if the inventory was glitched up) I knew about those skips. I think the one by unreal is particularly cool, but it will be used anyway. ^^
Experienced player (603)
Joined: 2/8/2009
Posts: 656
every skip apart from BAing is awesome :P
Joined: 10/20/2006
Posts: 1248
For those wondering, [URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CpoJOHwwD0]this[/URL] shows how to RBA bomb bag and quiver. Ok, I'm also against using it then :X
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
MrGrunz wrote:
fire temple would immediately use this trick after entering the temple: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxJNes3c5hg
Actually that's not true. We would just catch a fish to RBA the bosskey (even more boring XD ). Then one would go in there and hit Volvagia on the head with the B-hammer a few times and fire temple would be over. I mean the bosskey door is in the freaking second room. That temple would effectively be skipped.
Joined: 12/8/2008
Posts: 8
Dono if this video link been posted yet but. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXCJQlXmHn8&feature=channel_page its a super kik ass root to get to the master sword with out having to do all young links temples.
Experienced player (520)
Joined: 4/14/2009
Posts: 116
aaron104212 wrote:
Dono if this video link been posted yet but. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXCJQlXmHn8&feature=channel_page its a super kik ass root to get to the master sword with out having to do all young links temples.
Judging by the fact that it was made by three prominent tasers here, don't you think they've already posted it? In addition, it may not even be the fastest way anymore. And the trick to skip the door of time is over a year old.
Joined: 5/2/2009
Posts: 656
RingRush wrote:
Judging by the fact that it was made by three prominent tasers here, don't you think they've already posted it? In addition, it may not even be the fastest way anymore. And the trick to skip the door of time is over a year old.
Well, seeing that this thread have 239 pages, it's not too much of a surprise this video being posted without anyone looking around. But I still eagerly wait for the "Bottle Adventure" TAS.
My first language is not English, so please excuse myself if I write something wrong. I'll do my best do write as cleary as I can, so cope with me here =) (ノಥ益ಥ)ノ
Player (79)
Joined: 7/7/2008
Posts: 873
Location: Utah
It won't be possible until Mupen64 Plus comes out but oh well. :P
Experienced player (520)
Joined: 4/14/2009
Posts: 116
Also no bottle adventure will be used in the TAS, it is an RBA TAS...but enough of technicalities. Really, what I wanted to ask, if you duplicate a single GS token 40 times, is it still only one item for the sake of low%? With a few more tricks...well I assume most of you know where I'm going with this. Lets pretend there was a use of getting fire arrows multiple times. And for some reason the ass chest was useful. I don't think anyone would say getting fire arrows ten times from the ass chest would count as ten different items. On a similar note, if you burned the deku shield multiple times and rebought it back, nobody would say that that is multiple items. Logically, getting the same GS token ten times then, shouldn't count as ten different items. Some people are saying it should count as 0 tokens since the gs never dies permanently and the token is always still there...that I'm not so sure about, but that would make this even more useful. However, I'd use the same fire arrows parallel: you can get fire arrows from Lake Hylia and they count...just because you could get them again from the ass chest, doesn't mean the originals don't count. There is an intense argument in #zelda on irc.metroid2002.com right now, and I can't include all the points for all three sides in one post, but it is probably still good to here other's inputs.
Joined: 3/11/2008
Posts: 583
Location: USA
I'm...not sure whether to count gold tokens in a low%. It's sort of like individual rupees. You don't count these because they don't directly impact what you can do- if you buy item X, you count that, but not the rupees used to purchase it. This results in four items: adult wallet, stone of agony, giant wallet, bombchus. (Bombchus might not %up as they may be obtained elsewhere.)
Joined: 4/1/2008
Posts: 149
eternaljwh wrote:
I'm...not sure whether to count gold tokens in a low%. It's sort of like individual rupees. You don't count these because they don't directly impact what you can do- if you buy item X, you count that, but not the rupees used to purchase it. This results in four items: adult wallet, stone of agony, giant wallet, bombchus. (Bombchus might not %up as they may be obtained elsewhere.)
God I wish OoT had a % counter Well the point of ringrush's plan is to get chus without needing any other items. Another much cleaner theory to do that is something I am trying(unsuccessfully) after Grunz discovered an OoB in the bottom of the well. But anyways while I dont disagree with either of your points, I would like to see deku sticks skipped in a less controversial way :/
Comicalflop wrote:
I don't recommend HISSing at parties though, people will think you're a snake.
Player (36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2630
You know, there are a whole lot of easter eggs that are in OoT. Does a 100% run include catching a 21-pound fish? What about catching the Hylian Loach? Does a 100% run include the Cow in Link's House? What about filling up the high score list in Link's House? Will you be obtaining partial upgrades as part of the 100%? What about optional partial upgrades (like the Giant's Knife?) Will you be obtaining all of the masks? Opening all of the chests? etc.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Experienced player (608)
Joined: 10/23/2004
Posts: 706
I have one piece of input on a 100% TAS. I feel strongly that it should have the extra heart piece that is only obtainable as Young Link in the Gerudo Valley. This is a TAS, after all. Well, I might as well go a step further and give my opinion on 100% in general. I think 100% should be determined by the end state of your pause menu. I also think that no end-state items should be obtained through bottle adventure type glitching.
Current Project: - Mario Kart 64
Mitjitsu
He/Him
Banned User
Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997
So we all agree, we'll do a 102% run. Excluding X, Y and Z glitches.
Player (79)
Joined: 7/7/2008
Posts: 873
Location: Utah
Yeah, those aren't fair!
Experienced player (608)
Joined: 10/23/2004
Posts: 706
Mitjitsu wrote:
So we all agree, we'll do a 102% run. Excluding X, Y and Z glitches.
:) Seriously though, it's a tough thing to define in this game. Still, I think the point of a 100% run should be to actually collect items, rather than just site there moving items around in your menu using a bottle adventure. When it comes to defining what items should be collected, I think a reasonable end state can be defined as "all items visible in the pause menu when outside of a dungeon." -- my one oddball request (though it still fits this requirement) is that the extra heart piece be obtained. Anything beyond the above (i.e. all keys, all chests, all grottos, etc. begins to get tedious imho and it is not captured in a single summary location i.e. the pause screen).
Current Project: - Mario Kart 64
Experienced player (608)
Joined: 10/23/2004
Posts: 706
eternaljwh wrote:
I'm...not sure whether to count gold tokens in a low%. It's sort of like individual rupees. You don't count these because they don't directly impact what you can do- if you buy item X, you count that, but not the rupees used to purchase it. This results in four items: adult wallet, stone of agony, giant wallet, bombchus. (Bombchus might not %up as they may be obtained elsewhere.)
One way in which skulltulas are unlike rupees is that they are not actually deducted when you use them to gain an item...
Current Project: - Mario Kart 64
Joined: 3/11/2008
Posts: 583
Location: USA
Yeah, they're not deducted- that's not too relevant, though, since Skulltulas are supposedly finite-supply, and rupees are decidedly not. I'm sticking with that the three pre-bombchu items count- though I agree that for a TAS the SoA is utterly worthless, it's still an item. (See: Lens of Truth)- so if you wanted low%, you'd want to go with slingshot or whate'er to get 'chus, because that's only one upgrade to "things you can do" rather than three.
OmnipotentEntity wrote:
Does a 100% run include catching a 21-pound fish? What about catching the Hylian Loach?
don't you need for gold scale? By extra heart piece, do you mean the one that makes it so you can get 4/3 as many pieced-up hearts? I think Giant's Knife (and other intermediary upgrades) are irrelevant, because once you get the better thing, they are irrelevant.