I've really had a hard time in terms of deciding whether I should use reset or not. Same with the game order... As I finished SpringBreeze now, I came to the conclusion that I will, despite of your advice and ideas, not use reset and I'm most likely going to play DynaBlade after GourmetRace. I'm not good at writing long and good posts, and I don't have the time, so I'll just post my thoughts like this.
Reset
+ Saves some seconds plus 3 minutes of MWW credits
- imo, takes away from entertainment
- skips the MWW credits (which are, imo, wonderful and I want to include them)
No reset
+ MWW credits that I definitely want to include. This should be the actual end of the whole run. And as I said, the Arena should just be a bonus. It's a shame the Arena counts to the 100%, but since I'm going for these 100% and want to include the MWW credits so badly I see myself forced to do the 'no reset'-run. If someone does not want to see those credits, then he should just skip them or something. I don't think it's that much of a matter...
- loses some few seconds (but it doesn't abruptly interrupt the playing)
About the order:
I concluded, it would be more entertaining to play DynaBlade first, instead of GCO. In DynaBlade, the fire ability is not needed and the longer it remains an unknown feature that noone would have thought of (the TAS watchers that don't know about the up+down glitches), the better.
And, imo, the GCO is much more entertaining to watch than DynaBlade; So I figured, this would make for a better balance of suspense (If this sentence made any sense...). I don't want the entertainment to decrease during the run.
Sorry guys. I think I shouldn't have asked for feedback on these two things in the first place.
(edit: btw, I'm done with GourmetRace now.
-> I saved ~51 frames in SpringBreeze if this would be a reset-run (now, smns72 is 5 seconds ahead in his WIP).
-> In GourmetRace #3, I improved smns72's version (6:52?) by using persona's 6:42-strat (I think it was him).
No WIP this time, sorry.)
I'll make "Any%Run" of this game with OGA,WaddleDX and Yu-ki(Hs), but do not intend to do "Spring Breeze" and "Gourmet Race" now.
Because these do not have to do it to let "Milky Way Wishes" appear, and these do the same thing in "100%Run".
I've already finished Dynablade in 4:06.13 (at reset).
But, we've stopped project, because we've found that UP+DOWN on a ladder causes a new glitch.
About this glitch, please view this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDMCUFI5-58
however, this glitch is a glitch to depend on an emulator, and I've checked it with a real console.
But result was the phenomenon that resembled "snes9x v1.51".
We're worried whether we should use it.
Please give us your opinions or comments.
Edit:
Uploaded smv of Dynablade.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1166258699/smns72-kss-dynablade.smv
Hello smns72.
Today, I found this forum: http://bb2.atbb.jp/tas/viewtopic.php?t=9
But as posts from foreign countries are blocked, I'm forced to post it here instead.
edit: thanks gocha.
But result was the phenomenon that resembled "snes9x v1.51".
Game crashes on v1.51.
I've already finished Dynablade in 4:06.13 (at reset).
If you don't mind, can you PM me the SMV for comparison? Or is it just the old run hex-edited into a new file?
Joined: 6/21/2006
Posts: 401
Location: Japan, Nagoya
@MUGG
I, the admin of the forum, didn't know the forum accepts only posts from Japan. Now I unlocked it from anti-spam setting page. Sorry for inconvenience.
Edit: English post may be blocked after all.
(my first post)
Before checking this forum I had actually started on a Kirby Super Star TAS solely because of the already accepted TAS of the same. I was hoping to watch something great and instead I got to watch a mostly boring whoring of the Wheelie Rider. While that makes an incredibly fast mode of movement, it also takes away from the nearly endless possibilities that the game naturally has in its abilities vs. scenarios concept. I have a four year son who also delights in these TAS videos and even he became disinterested and left the room. After this, I decided to make a run that did not focus on speedy completion, but rather to create a wild display of abilities and their uses. Later, when it came time to choose whether to 100% or not, I chose to go for it under the consideration that this was likely to give me more time to play with the abilities.
I'm just now starting Milky Way Wishes and up to this point I'd have to say that I'm quite pleased with what I have so far. It may not be acceptable on the main site but it's definitely something I'm going to keep. Though probably not considered very professional, there are times where you can actually notice that I've found a faster way to do something, and so far those who've seen it seem to find that factor even more enjoyable as it dulls out a little bit of the tedious repetition that would otherwise be there.
Due to the focus of displaying the abilities at their best, I've been mostly avoiding abilities that only have one simple use, such as Wheelie, Plasma, and Stone.
Might provide a download for the completed file here upon completion... probably depends on if anyone responds to this.
~Ja ne.
I've always felt that the Kirby TASes we have on this site aren't living up to their full potential (at least for the NES and SNES "traditional" Kirby games), precisely for the reason you noted. I think there's plenty of room for a playaround TAS. However, that doesn't mean you'll be able to get away with low technical quality; because it's so hard to objectively judge how entertaining a run is (as opposed to how fast it is), you really need to pull out all the stops to make a good run that doesn't aim for speed. Good luck with your efforts!
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
In that case, I'm currently working on it, and just started MWW stage 2. :)
Derakon wrote:
I've always felt that the Kirby TASes we have on this site aren't living up to their full potential (at least for the NES and SNES "traditional" Kirby games), precisely for the reason you noted. I think there's plenty of room for a playaround TAS. However, that doesn't mean you'll be able to get away with low technical quality; because it's so hard to objectively judge how entertaining a run is (as opposed to how fast it is), you really need to pull out all the stops to make a good run that doesn't aim for speed. Good luck with your efforts!
Well, to get a good feeling for the entertainment value of this one so far, it's the first TAS I've made that I actually enjoy viewing after the fact. My buddy Jonathan (not a member of this site, as of yet) was urging me to make sure that this gets done eventually. I guess I can just do what I do and hope, ya?
Starting MWW stage 3, "Skyhigh".
If you want advice, you can show us a WIP of what you have right now, even if it's not perfect, a lot of people here will be pleased to help you perfect your technique and make a great run ;)
If you want advice, you can show us a WIP of what you have right now, even if it's not perfect, a lot of people here will be pleased to help you perfect your technique and make a great run ;)
Thanks for the offer... however, I don't really want to release an unfinished portion... besides it's really more about doing whatever "on-the-fly" more or less to keep things interesting. Nothing is really planned out ahead of time other than the item collection aspect.
Just now wrapping up MWW stage 6, "Cavios."
8:36pm taking a break... food, maybe a movie... will finish later tonight.
*EDIT* 12:39am... opinion(s) needed, should I do Arena?
*EDIT* Meh, whatever... I'll do Arena out of boredom.
*EDIT* 2:31am... ugh... 10 more Arena fights, will finish tomorrow. Zzz...
smns72 wrote:
*ladder glitch talk*
We're worried whether we should use it.
Please give us your opinions or comments.
I'd have to say, while it appears it could bring about some neat effects, as far as entertaining gameplay I'd have to say no. Though if it were meant to be a speed run and it saved a notable amount of time, then yes.
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Hi there. Just a quick off-topic note: I've deleted some posts by a guy who registered an account with, apparently, the sole intention to cause trouble and accuse ZanasoBayncuh of some nasty things.
Shame on you!
Alright, that's all, ignore this post...
Hi there. Just a quick off-topic note: I've deleted some posts by a guy who registered an account with, apparently, the sole intention to cause trouble and accuse ZanasoBayncuh of some nasty things.
Shame on you!
Alright, that's all, ignore this post...
Thanks, but in that case, could you remove my responses to him? haha, cause otherwise it sort of looks like double posting and such.
madroll, if that is your real name, if you continue to haras poor zansaonobaynuch disiplinary action will bet taken against your at bemanistyle
that is all
*PEACE*
=EDIT= I see it has been taken care of. Good job mods! =/EDIT=
*ladder glitch talk*
We're worried whether we should use it.
Please give us your opinions or comments.
I'd have to say, while it appears it could bring about some neat effects, as far as entertaining gameplay I'd have to say no. Though if it were meant to be a speed run and it saved a notable amount of time, then yes.
It is banned since it appears to be an emulator glitch.
My complete run is now available here.
Please critique.
Also take note, I am not now, nor will I ever claim it is without flaws. I'm sure that they are EVERYWHERE. It's only meant to be fun to watch.
Typing this as I watch.
Spring Breeze:
So far so good. I liked how you threw the waddle-doo at the cloud to kill it. I probably would have preferred if you had switched powers somewhere before King Dedede.
Gourmet Race:
Is it possible to cancel out a dive bomb before hitting the ground? If so, it would be faster and a bit more fun to watch I think.
Dynablade:
First level:I know this is an "entertainment run" and not a speed run, but that doesn't mean speed doesn't factor in to entertainment. I'd avoid using the parasol attack where Kirby stands still and bounces the enemy around a bit. Perhaps just the first time and then on the miniboss's body.
Second level: Well-timed power switch right at the beginning. I liked the sword bouncing technique on the minibosses. Some of the ability switching later got a bit monotonous, but I can understand why you made them.
Third level: I was going to be severely disappointed if you didn't throw that hammer. I was also going to be severely disappointed if you didn't take suplex.
Fourth level: Stomping on Bonkers mid-air was kinda neat. I must say, you did a fine job of keeping suplex interesting.
Dynablade: Not much to say really. I suppose I might have liked a different power, but it's a pretty short fight, so whatever.
That's all I feel like typing right now, might add more later.
Gourmet Race:
Is it possible to cancel out a dive bomb before hitting the ground? If so, it would be faster and a bit more fun to watch I think.
There is not, in fact it is quite likely that the fastest way through that stage is to grab wheelie, make a partner, and ride it... but since we saw quite enough of that on the site posted TAS I avoided doing so.
Schnretzl wrote:
Dynablade:
First level:I know this is an "entertainment run" and not a speed run, but that doesn't mean speed doesn't factor in to entertainment. I'd avoid using the parasol attack where Kirby stands still and bounces the enemy around a bit. Perhaps just the first time and then on the miniboss's body.
You're probably right, but I was learning as I went along, plus I did think the move was entertaining... it could've been spaced out a little more, though, can't argue about that.
Schnretzl wrote:
Second level: Well-timed power switch right at the beginning. I liked the sword bouncing technique on the minibosses. Some of the ability switching later got a bit monotonous, but I can understand why you made them.
Yeah, trying to keep the abilities themselves from getting stale starts making things a little hectic with what abilities to use and not to. Plus there's the whole Mirror thing and the fact that I wanted to grab the hidden areas in the video, but I'm not a big fan of mirror so I didn't want to keep it, plus sword isn't the greatest either... it was a bit of a pain to finally make the decision on whether to move forward as it was or not.
Schnretzl wrote:
Third level: I was going to be severely disappointed if you didn't throw that hammer. I was also going to be severely disappointed if you didn't take suplex.
What can be said other than SUPLEX is the shit.
Schnretzl wrote:
Fourth level: Stomping on Bonkers mid-air was kinda neat. I must say, you did a fine job of keeping suplex interesting.
I also had a bit of a habit of not only killing, but maiming every sleeping enemy I came across... sort of a theme of unnecessary brutality I suppose. But yeah, suplex is one of my favorites, in case the video didn't sort of confirm that.
Schnretzl wrote:
Dynablade: Not much to say really. I suppose I might have liked a different power, but it's a pretty short fight, so whatever.
Yeah, I didn't really run across any abilities between starting the fourth stage and Dynablade that would've made the fight any more "interesting" per se... so I kept what I had and hoped for the best.
Thanks for your critique, I might attempt an improved run some time in the future.
Though, before anyone gets on the "What were you thinking doing the Megaton and Samurai mini games!?" Keep in mind that this was originally for my son, I'm just sharing it here :P
But yeah, suplex is one of my favorites, in case the video didn't sort of confirm that.
(snip)
Though, before anyone gets on the "What were you thinking doing the Megaton and Samurai mini games!?" Keep in mind that this was originally for my son, I'm just sharing it here :P
It's a little too obvious. I did appreciate that you didn't use it to cheaply sit out the projectile volleys Marx and others (e.g. Red Dragon) sent at you, but actually dodged and grabbed a late one.
The Great Cave Offensive was looooong. (I was amused at some relative worths, and a bit annoyed at translation errors). Also, those elevators are more or less a level design failure...
I didn't mind the minigames.
You didn't show off Paint at either time you could get it (Heavy Lobster, Chameleon). Dunno if this would be worth it.
If you're not actively controlling the helper, that could potentially add a bunch more entertainment (More than the rather frequent "World's Longest-Exploding Helper" routine that seems to happen)
Yeah, it's unfortunate but I couldn't find a whole lot of super interesting abilities. Suplex can be made interesting in a lot of areas, while some abilities like Parasol, Hammer, Yo-yo can't be made interesting in all situations.
eternaljwh wrote:
I did appreciate that you didn't use it to cheaply sit out the projectile volleys Marx and others (e.g. Red Dragon) sent at you, but actually dodged and grabbed a late one.
Actually, at times it's necessary to do that, if you hold an item for too long Kirby will do a forward suplex by default when time runs out.
eternaljwh wrote:
The Great Cave Offensive was looooong. (I was amused at some relative worths, and a bit annoyed at translation errors). Also, those elevators are more or less a level design failure...
Yeah, there is some backtracking here and there that I'm afraid won't be understood... such as the fact that only one treasure is grabbed out of order (43-42) and when I returned to the bottom of the castle to grab Ninja for the purpose of moving through the upper portion lots quicker.
eternaljwh wrote:
I didn't mind the minigames.
I assume that anyone who hasn't seen them before wouldn't... but the next couple of times watched it'd seem kind of blah.
eternaljwh wrote:
You didn't show off Paint at either time you could get it (Heavy Lobster, Chameleon). Dunno if this would be worth it.
At best, Paint would be used as a final blow so as not to spend the rest of the boss fight powerless. During this TAS I also found out that the smaller Lobster sent out by Heavy Lobster can't be grabbed in any way.
eternaljwh wrote:
If you're not actively controlling the helper, that could potentially add a bunch more entertainment (More than the rather frequent "World's Longest-Exploding Helper" routine that seems to happen)
I barely have the patience to control ONE player, the hell with doing two, but I was also quite annoyed with the helpers and am guilty of choosing the Plasma helper directly before Chameleon for the sole purpose of the fact that I knew he'd suicide on the boss. I'm not kind to helpers... but you'll also notice that during Milky Way Wishes I made a helper only during the Marx fight for jump assists. Avoiding making helpers keeps helpers from dying, haha.
*LATE EDIT* Actually going to work on a run with intent of submission. One Player - Minimum Wheelie Use (if I 100% run, there is one treasure that requires it). Not sure if I'm going to 100% run though.
So I'm going for the 100% run once more. But I'm stuck...
I can't get the "Fall Through Platform" glitch to work, and thus I'm asking for help here. Are there any strategies or hints on how to do it? Or is it a trick you can pull off by trial-and-error only?
I don't know if the Japanese TASers look here, but hopefully gocha tells them. :)
EDIT: What I found out so far / notes:
- You need to press and hold 'down' at a certain time before reaching the platform you want to pass through.
- I tested if pressing 'down' before a successfull platform skip influences it. It does! I pressed 'down' x frames before pressing down for the platform glitch and it didn't work as it should.
- The glitch seems to work better on diagonal platforms...
- There's a platform I haven't been able to go through ever.
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/6954/hoshinokirbysuperdeluxe.png
EDIT2: I've just gone through this platform. Yay!
- I jumped and went through a platform. I tested if delaying the jump by a frame influences the outcome, and it does. So we can say that the platform skip is only possible at certain frames.
---
I'm at Great Cave Offensive, and progress is looking good.
This attempt, however, will be slightly suboptimal. I'm trying to find new strategies and optimize everything, but I'm not playing certain parts over and over to save 2 more frames. This way, when I finish the run, it won't be improvable by more than a few seconds and I can eventually finish the run.
Actually I was trying to stick to my rule of not posting WIPs anymore but I need to know if there are possible improvements (aside from the fall-through-platform glitch I was unable to perform in one place). I would really appreciate if someone came up with a map of Great Cave Offensive. I've been making rough maps but it would save my time if I could use already existing maps.
WaddleDXsp once informed me about possible improvements to his run, but I can't really understand what he was saying back then.
I can't read Japanese, all I can do to read it is using Google Translator...
WaddleDXsp wrote:
Joined: 6/21/2006
Posts: 401
Location: Japan, Nagoya
MUGG wrote:
I would really appreciate if someone came up with a map of Great Cave Offensive. I've been making rough maps but it would save my time if I could use already existing maps.
VGMaps - Kirby Super Star. Hope it helps you ;)
Edit: what WaddleDX wrote is something like...
WaddleDXsp wrote:
I'm sorry for my late response.
Possible improvements:
- Ability mix at copying Wheel and Fire.
- Room(s) which has mine cart.
- The crystal area.
- Might be able to defeat Fatty Whale with hitting 1 less stars.
Actually I was trying to stick to my rule of not posting WIPs anymore but I need to know if there are possible improvements (aside from the fall-through-platform glitch I was unable to perform in one place). I would really appreciate if someone came up with a map of Great Cave Offensive. I've been making rough maps but it would save my time if I could use already existing maps.
WaddleDXsp once informed me about possible improvements to his run, but I can't really understand what he was saying back then.
I can't read Japanese, all I can do to read it is using Google Translator...
WaddleDXsp wrote:
he mentions these possible improvements, i believe:
·using the benefit of copying wheel and fire (don't know what that is)
·map of where the railcar is?? something about the railcar.
·on the way to "crystal area" (i'm sure on that one)
·you can probably diminish the one (or first) time a star appears on fatty whale (the whale boss) [again not too sure]
so, really, the only help i can give you is about the journey to crystal area. sorry!
