adelikat
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My personal choice would be the PC version, too bad dosbox isn't further along.
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
Quietust
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adelikat wrote:
My personal choice would be the PC version, too bad dosbox isn't further along.
Personally, I'd prefer the Amiga version for its clearly superior music, though there's even less effort toward Amiga rerecording (i.e. approximately zero).
* Quietust, QMT Productions P.S. If you don't get this note, let me know and I'll write you another
Player (121)
Joined: 2/11/2007
Posts: 1522
Awesome! Level 4 in particular was really nice. The timing was great too, releasing the lemmings at the earliest moment. Most of it was on the dull side though I admit -- watching stairs being built is boring :( And while the NES version is charming in its backwardness, I guess a different port would be nice too, if only for allowing more than 14 lemmings at once -- I didn't realize that was the case. That said, I'm pretty curious to see how the rest will turn out, even on NES... (translation: please do more! please?)
I make a comic with no image files and you should read it. While there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free. -Eugene Debs
Lord_Tom
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Joined: 5/25/2007
Posts: 399
Location: New England
Argh...the SNES version requires a password to skip right to Mayhem, unlike the NES or Sega Master system versions. So doing mayhem-only for SNES would violate the rules. The Sega version seems comparable to the SNES otherwise, so maybe that's the way to go.
adelikat
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The use of passwords is possible with good reason. And surely this is a case where it would be acceptable.
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
Skilled player (1649)
Joined: 7/25/2007
Posts: 299
Location: UK
I really liked the wip, even though I was fast forwarding most of it due to the slow building speed. I liked level 4 in particular, I wondered what was going on at first but then I realised that it doesnt make any difference. What is hindering the progression of the level is when the final one gets to the exit, so you can play about with the others without sacrificing time. Nice to see them not all in a single uniform file for a change :) I'd like the movie to start with the Fun levels though. Doesnt matter if the movie ended up being 2 hours long, we all know we'd be skipping 70% of it anyway so the real play time would be relatively short. Possible improvements though. When a builder ends up at a wall he'll immediately stop and turn around. If he ends up hitting just below the top corner of a platform however he'll stops building since he hits a wall, but they'll be enough room for him to step up onto it so he'll just continue walking in a straight line. This needs to be done on Level 2, for the third main bridge being built. Notice how it extends far above and beyond the closest point of the platform, so he ends up using far more bricks than needed. This works on the PC versions at least, from the wip it looks like it might not work. On level 3 I would've liked you to move the camera to the left so we could see what was happening to all the other lemmings. Unless of course it causes lag? On level 5 you trap them, and they go back and forth for a while. You can manipulate their positions on the ground by use of the umbrellas. Once released, you want them all to get to the exit as fast as possible, but notice how they're currently in a completely random order due to random umbrella assignments. You should optimise this, try to control their ground positions so that they're bunched up and their periodic motions coincide with the explosion later on. They should start to walk through the wall the moment it explodes, but we had to wait for a few who were still walking about when that happened.
Lord_Tom
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Posts: 399
Location: New England
Glad you like it. Yeah, it'd be nice to do a ROM hack and quadruple the building speed. Level 4 (with the spider web) is also my favorite. Having the Lemmings take 3 different paths actually wasn't done by choice, though; it's the only way I found to get all of the "lead" lemmings in ahead of the last one. The direct path taken by the last lemming isn't available to the early ones because it has to be dug. The issue with the builders on level 2 is a bit mysterious. For the 3rd bridge, I don't think it's possible to line it up perfectly b/c the ground is jagged. For the 4th, it appears to be lined up, yet he still builds past the corner. Contrast that with level 5, where the builder stops halfway through the final bridge. So...it IS possible in this port, but depends on either random or unknown factors. I've been looking at the SNES port...it looks promising entertainment wise, though will be more difficult to TAS (more lemmings, variable speed of lemming appearance, no 8x8 grid for all actions, etc). Will try to get a wip up soon.
Joined: 4/25/2004
Posts: 615
Location: The Netherlands
Since it's ancient, I'm sure somebody already posted this, but just in case, you can also do your speedrun in Javascript... http://it.travisbsd.org/lemmings/dhtml_lemmings/
qfox.nl
Lord_Tom
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Interesting...is there a re-recording JS app? ;) Yet another perplexing item for this game...I'm doing Mayhem-only, using a password, in the SNES port, and it lags miserably (to ~30 Hz) whenever a bunch of lemmings are onscreen, even if they're all on top of each other. It's easy enough to minimize this, but requires keeping the main body of lemmings offscreen as much as possible, which I'm guessing will be a big entertainment hit. Alas, it's also not great for entertainment to have building a bridge take 24 seconds, instead of 12... EDIT: New idea...would anyone object to the run being centered on speed by the in-game timer (per-level)? I seem to recall Punch Out being done like this. It makes a lot of sense in this case because it takes lag out of the equation, but doesn't really change anything else about the run.
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Joined: 6/22/2005
Posts: 1050
Lord Tom wrote:
New idea...would anyone object to the run being centered on speed by the in-game timer (per-level)?
Are you talking about the NES or SNES version?
Current Projects: TAS: Wizards & Warriors III.
Lord_Tom
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Location: New England
SNES; the NES version limits each level to just 14 lemmings, so I haven't noticed lag being a factor. EDIT: So, finally, a wip of SNES level 1. I'll update this file occasionally as I progress and try to make note when I do so. http://tom.seufert.googlepages.com/tomsneslemmingswip.smv Compared to NES, there are (at least, for the 5 levels I've tried so far) more lemmings which are dispensible, which makes some of the strategies I use possible. I decided against trying to play music with the lemming job switcher...I tried it, and found it annoying on top of the existing music.
Lord_Tom
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Re-posting just to note that the link above is now a wip of the 1st 4 SNES Mayhem levels. I was pleased to see that there were tricky ways to save time in levels 1, 2 and 4 that would basically be impossible for a human player. Level 3, alas, was apparently designed to be beatable in exactly 1 way...:(
Lord_Tom
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Location: New England
Slow, but steady progress continues...I've done 8 of 30 levels in SNES Lemmings. http://tom.seufert.googlepages.com/tomsneslemmingswip.smv Levels 7&8 make use of diggers to get around not having bashers; because of how collision detection with the floor works, it is possible to get through a wall by having consecutive lemmings dig. The result is that these 2 levels are beaten MUCH faster than even a segmented real-time run could accomplish.
Player (48)
Joined: 3/11/2007
Posts: 94
Location: Japan
Lord Tom, you don't need the password to access Mayhem. Just start the 1 player game and press select button three times on the level selection screen, then you can get right to Mayhem level 1. As for the actual run, it seems well thought-out and flawless. In particular, your level 8 solution caught my eye. I never knew that a Lemming could land and even be a Digger on such a tight spot. Simply awesome. Looking forward to seeing the next WIP. Keep on good work!
Lord_Tom
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Thanks, Inichi. When I started this run, I tried a bunch of things to start at Mayhem but couldn't figure out how to do it without using the password. I'll try that when I get a chance and hopefully splice it in before submission. Glad you liked level 8...using that tiny ledge (and being able to dig through steel) was, like so many TAS tricks, discovered purely by accident while testing an entirely different strategy.
Lord_Tom
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Location: New England
Another wip, now up to level 12. Of the new levels, each of 9-12 has significant aspects where tool-assist is on display, but I have to say level 10 is a HUGE departure from how the level was intended to be attacked...at least, I think so... Also, I'd like to mention I'm revising my goals for this title a bit in light of a new (for me) discovery. Previously, I'd aimed for fastest time by the in-game clock, thinking that was a reasonable way to allow for some lag while still making an entertaining run that was fast in real-time. However, as it turns out, one can press start to pause the lemmings and timer while still moving the cursor; thereby pausing in-game time at the expense of real-time. Since I think a run with lots of pausing to move the cursor around would be too easy and against the spirit of a good TAS, I'm now aiming for fastest real-time, with some time-entertainment trade-offs. Specifically, I allow some lag on most levels when avoiding it would require having the main body of lemmings off-screen when they're doing something interesting, e.g. moving toward the exit. Any comments/questions on the goals or the wip itself, as always, is appreciated. Here it is: http://tom.seufert.googlepages.com/tomsneslemmingswip.smv
Lord_Tom
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...and yet another wip, now up to level 16 (out of 30)! Level 14 was the most tedious level in the game so far to make, but isn't bad to watch as multiple lemmings are being juggled at once. Enjoy! http://tom.seufert.googlepages.com/tomsneslemmingswip.smv BTW, perhaps this thread should be under SNES games? It seems like it started out being about NES Lemmings, but no serious attempt was ever made on that port...
adelikat
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Joined: 11/3/2004
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I'm confused why you are still using the NES forum to post about this SNES game. O_o Also, great work :)
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
Lord_Tom
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Location: New England
Thanks! Bowing to common sense, I've located and begun to use the SNES Lemmings thread...;)
Editor, Player (69)
Joined: 6/22/2005
Posts: 1050
Is there any interest remaining in the NES version of Lemmings? I'm planning to eventually finish my TAS (using FCEU 0.98.13) regardless, but I'll be even less hurried than I am currently if no one is interested.
Current Projects: TAS: Wizards & Warriors III.
Experienced player (607)
Joined: 10/23/2004
Posts: 706
Color me interested!
Current Project: - Mario Kart 64
Post subject: High content post
Player (121)
Joined: 2/11/2007
Posts: 1522
Seconded...
I make a comic with no image files and you should read it. While there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free. -Eugene Debs
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 757
Color Me A Dinosaur! er... I mean Thirded! Mr. Kelly R. Flewin
Mr. Kelly R. Flewin Just another random gamer ---- <OmnipotentEntity> How do you people get bored in the span of 10 seconds? Worst ADD ever.
Lord_Tom
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Posts: 399
Location: New England
I'd definitely be interested. My SNES run is basically done, though I got distracted for a week or so by SMB3. I've spliced in the last major changes and now just have to go through inserting/removing frames to make it sync. I don't know if you ever saw the WIP I did for the NES version of the 1st five levels a few months back, but check it out if not (linked to one page back, I believe). I definitely believe both consoles could have runs published; the ports are sufficiently different to essentially consider different games. Good luck!
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Joined: 6/22/2005
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Mr. Kelly R. Flewin wrote:
Color Me A Dinosaur!
I think I should work on Lemmings instead ;).
Lord Tom wrote:
I don't know if you ever saw the WIP I did for the NES version of the 1st five levels a few months back, but check it out if not (linked to one page back, I believe).
Yes, I saw it. With your permission, and if I don't find better solutions, I'll use your solutions in my movie and list you as a joint author. It will be a while before I get to those levels, though. The extra jobs they give you in the Fun levels probably make them harder than the other difficulties because of possible alternate solutions.
Current Projects: TAS: Wizards & Warriors III.