I just hope that the Frigate isn't going to cause the same problems that the Facility caused. I'd say do the run with the single controller in which you're using and then a future improvement can use Anno Domini settings.
yousendit? can anyone host this under something you dont' have to register to?
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Some people just can't bother getting the ROM/emulator to work either. it's just the way it is.
If someone thinks something is too much work, that's fine.
I used a login from bug me not.
I won't register to sites like that, they probably sell your email adress to every spam agency they can.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
I use it and they/anyone else don't spam me ever.
But my previous statement still stands; if someone needs an AVI to watch, there's nothing wrong with it.
This run is going for mission time so why not let us see the mission times after they are completed, that would make a lot of sense?
Also this is a TAS, it needs to bust out every trick it can. You simply must use control style 2.3 for the levels it helps on. Henrick uses it for all his TASes, I don't see what the problem should be.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
This run is going for mission time so why not let us see the mission times after they are completed, that would make a lot of sense?
You can see the mission time if you pause the game, and that would then raise issues of how fast is too fast when skipping throught ending/starting mission texts.
but if your watching a video of it you have basically no chance of ever seeing it unless there happens to be 1 frame with the time. The point is that real time doesn't matter, only mission time, so not even showing the mission time seems really weird to say the least.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
I'd assume that the mission times are going to be listed in the submission text, and that each .m64 is going to end input on the mission status page, so that viewers can see the mission time in the way that the first vids were encoded. for the actual run, it shouldn't waste time just to show mission times, because that wastes real time and the point is to get to the end credits as fast as possible.
the point is to get to the end credits as fast as possible.
That is completely false, this run is going for mission time only. Real time can't be an objective on this run or he wouldn't have quit out of the first level. Also he is going to wait out cinemas for up to 20 seconds in order to save a few seconds on mission time. Mission time is all that matters. This is how speedruns are timed at SDA too.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. For the millionth time, SDA uses in-game timers because they HAVE to. We have frame count here.
Also he is going to wait out cinemas for up to 20 seconds in order to save a few seconds on mission time.
Are you serious? That is the lamest thing ever. The restarting of the first mission was enough of a disruption already. Though I'll wait for the author to claim this, rather than Spider-Waffle speaking for someone else. If he already has, well I guess I don't read closely enough.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Joined: 10/31/2005
Posts: 329
Location: The Netherlands
JXQ wrote:
SDA uses in-game timers because they HAVE to.
actually, they don't when the game tracks the time well enough itself, which happens to be the case for GoldenEye. it's for each individual level alone though, so the mission times are simply added up. this is all off topic though for a TAS topic.
I don't think there's anything wrong with setting things up to able to get the fastest mission times. it's personal preference. it could help us 'normal' speedrunners to improve greatly too. besides, can't you get rid of the quitting out of first level by using SRam or something? though I'm not sure what the exact rules are on it, but then you get what you want, it being shorter, but it's probably going up under a special category or so then.
Wouter: the rules state that a TAS must begin from first power-on with no sram. that means that in most games, cinematics that are usually skipped in speedruns can't be skipped in a TAS, but that's the way it is. The only exception I know of is the super mario kart which was allowed to start from an sram with 150cc unlocked.
As far as whether this game goes for in-level time or real-time... if it's the former, like Sonic games (sometimes real-time ends up being slower if arriving too soon gives you a huge bonus countdown) then there should probably be at least one frame where the time for each level can be seen once it's done, or at least a list or something. if it's the latter then, well that's obvious.
All the TASes of individual levels so far have waited out cinemas when it would shorten the mission time. I'm pretty sure rising tempest made it quite clear he was going for mission times. If he cared at all about real time he wouldn't have quit out. Sorry to say this but I think the vast majority of the comunity cares about mission time more than anything else. That's the way it's always been.
Even the perfect dark TASer decided going for real was a bad idea and went in favor of mission time.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
I believe the elite set the precedent with focusing on mission time, as the competition is quite fierce.
I thought the latest PD wip still focused on real time? I remember it being slower than the elite rankings for that level.
Borg Collective wrote:
Negotiation is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. You will be assimilated.
intially he was going for real time, but changed after playing the first level for awhile. Last I heard he had finished the first level for mission time and was asking how long he should wait out the cinema of the second level.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
I believe the elite set the precedent with focusing on mission time, as the competition is quite fierce.
Yes, I think the-elite did too, the-elite is the strongest speedrunning community for any set of games. But you have to think it would end up that way after the game was made. I mean people were going for fast mission times right away because they could unlock cheats. I don't think anyone was trying to see how fast they could go through the menus. Or comparing how fast they could go through menus to other people, that just ridiculous. The menus have never been considered part of the speedrunning element of the game.
I think GE was one of the first games to inspire speedrunning on a large level, due to the target mission times.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
I've had a brilliant idea which could make 35 or even 34 seconds possible on runway, but it's going to take some time because the grenades are ridiculously tiny targets.
And whoever mentioned waiting through the cinemas, it's only going to happen at two stages. Silo, so both of the first fuel rooms will be open when I get there (this will cancel out the time spent waiting if my numbers are right), and Cradle because Trev will need a head start to get to the control dealie ahead of me.
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Spider-Waffle wrote:
That is completely false, this run is going for mission time only. Real time can't be an objective on this run or he wouldn't have quit out of the first level. Also he is going to wait out cinemas for up to 20 seconds in order to save a few seconds on mission time. Mission time is all that matters. This is how speedruns are timed at SDA too.
the quitting was to change the controls to be easier to TAS if I remember correctly. This isn't SDA, we have different rules/expectations.
bkDJ wrote:
Wouter: the rules state that a TAS must begin from first power-on with no sram. that means that in most games, cinematics that are usually skipped in speedruns can't be skipped in a TAS, but that's the way it is. The only exception I know of is the super mario kart which was allowed to start from an sram with 150cc unlocked.
As far as whether this game goes for in-level time or real-time... if it's the former, like Sonic games (sometimes real-time ends up being slower if arriving too soon gives you a huge bonus countdown) then there should probably be at least one frame where the time for each level can be seen once it's done, or at least a list or something. if it's the latter then, well that's obvious.
There are other games that start from SRAM (generally it's to be avoided though, unless nescessray or will produce better results.) but so far mupen does not seem to have this function.
also, as I've mentioned before, in the submission text the mission times can be posted/listed, it's not that hard and easy to verify with someone who pauses the game with mupen and checks. plus Rising Tempest does not strike me as dishonest.
Spider-Waffle wrote:
All the TASes of individual levels so far have waited out cinemas when it would shorten the mission time. I'm pretty sure rising tempest made it quite clear he was going for mission times. If he cared at all about real time he wouldn't have quit out. Sorry to say this but I think the vast majority of the comunity cares about mission time more than anything else. That's the way it's always been.
Even the perfect dark TASer decided going for real was a bad idea and went in favor of mission time.
The TASes of individual levels were the latest level in the .m64, so RT can play around and show off the in-game time and head kills because the next level isn't started yet (most wips have this sort of playaround capability.) The vast majority of the GE speedrunners probably care about mission time, not so much the TAS viewers/members. This is because (I'm assuming) GE runners play individual levels, and try to optimize one level to have the lowest mission time possible. On this site, we try to beat the game as fast as possible.
And the PD run is not aiming for mission time:
L4yer wrote:
It's not possible in the first level because of a glitch.. the only way could have been bailing out of the speech skip halfway but even then sub 1:30 is doubtful as time can't be regained from not doing the skip. And I'd rather not have the opening cinema the first thing you see. 1:20 should be possible for a time though, but very hard obviously.
L4yer spend aggravated months and couldn't get the lowest mission time strategy to work due to a glitch with the programmer. so he made the level be beaten in the fastest real time, as evidenced by not using copious amounts of pressing start for text skips. the 1"57 he accomplished is fastest time and is the only way possible in mupen; a shorter in-game time (the time of which I don't know) will take longer in real time and doesn't work as well, nor be as entertaining (the pause menu bores the crap out of me, despite being pretty.)
he also goes through menus really fast and doesn't spend too much real time showing off "I got this mission time!" by skipping to the next mission as fast as possible.
Spider-Waffle wrote:
Yes, I think the-elite did too, the-elite is the strongest speedrunning community for any set of games. But you have to think it would end up that way after the game was made. I mean people were going for fast mission times right away because they could unlock cheats. I don't think anyone was trying to see how fast they could go through the menus. Or comparing how fast they could go through menus to other people, that just ridiculous. The menus have never been considered part of the speedrunning element of the game.
I think GE was one of the first games to inspire speedrunning on a large level, due to the target mission times.
Do try to keep in mind that this website has different goals in mind for what they want their movies to accomplish. The runs should get through the games as entertaining and as fast as possible. The speedrunning community does not consider the menus to be a part because, again, they do individual levels. There's one GE full game single segment speedrun, where Wouter skips through menus as fast as he can because he's trying to get the overall fastest time of beating the game. there is no PD single segment of the entire game yet (I want that to change...)
Both of those games (and many other N64 "get the fastest in-game time/score/whatever" types of games, of which there is too many to name) have at least some speedrunning community, and centered around individual segments of the game and optimizing everything within that time frame. everything outside that time frame- menus, showing times, etc. is ignored. Runs on this site want the entire game- menus, levels, everything- to be done as fast as possible so that the overall fastest time for the game is achieved, from power on to the last input that reaches the credits.
Rising Tempest wrote:
I've had a brilliant idea which could make 35 or even 34 seconds possible on runway, but it's going to take some time because the grenades are ridiculously tiny targets.
And whoever mentioned waiting through the cinemas, it's only going to happen at two stages. Silo, so both of the first fuel rooms will be open when I get there (this will cancel out the time spent waiting if my numbers are right), and Cradle because Trev will need a head start to get to the control dealie ahead of me.
Excellent that a 34/35 time might be possible! I hope you can nail that, and that each of the levels you've already done find some sort of improvement.
waiting through the cinemas for 2 stages doesn't to me sound too much mission time oriented, considering that's only 10% of all the 20 levels.
Also, I am a little against the quitting of the first mission, because that also has the objective to change the controls correct? I know it's easier to TAS with the "C-buttons move me" style, but it is time wasted and with tools, you should be expected to create the same amount of precision no matter which controls you use, since you're playing the game frame by frame. (especially with the TAS input plugin, you shouldn't need to change the controls.) but that's in the past, and I guess if it's easier for you, then the end product will come sooner. and who will want to obsolete an entire difficult run just to improve 7 seconds on a change of controls?
phew, I hope that covered it all. This is of course my opinion based on the differences between this site's goals and the goals of non-single segment speedrunning communities.
I'm fully willing to clarify or justify anything else that's brought up.
Also, I am a little against the quitting of the first mission, because that also has the objective to change the controls correct? I know it's easier to TAS with the "C-buttons move me" style, but it is time wasted and with tools, you should be expected to create the same amount of precision no matter which controls you use, since you're playing the game frame by frame. (especially with the TAS input plugin, you shouldn't need to change the controls.) but that's in the past, and I guess if it's easier for you, then the end product will come sooner. and who will want to obsolete an entire difficult run just to improve 7 seconds on a change of controls?
I started this second run before Nitsuja released that TAS input plugin (in which it is possible to set the axis' of the control stick seperately). I DID originally plan to wait until I had to pause for the decoder to change, but with the limited input plugin at the time, I would have had to slowdown to kill the first few guards and to accurately shoot the alarm. Even though I could start over and avoid those 7-8 seconds of control switching with the newer plugins, I don't want to think of what doing the first two levels over again would do to my morale on finishing this run. I;ve already done them so many times,,, (the dam to get used to TASing the game, and the facility because of Doak). I wouldn't be able to save more than a few frames over what I've done already on both levels.
And, my idea to shoot the grenades wont work as well as I'd hoped,,, they're just too tiny (and don't even appear on the screen once I've moved so far away). I even managed to get a grenade stuck inside the 3rd gun, but still wasn't able to hit it despite several hours of trying. Though, shooting a grenade thrown at the missile battery isn't a problem, and will facilitate my getting 36. I still MIGHT be able to squeeze a high decimal 35 out of it, but I will have to perfect up to the 3rd gun, and throw the last grenade from further away.
So, give me a few days to try and perfect the runway. When I get to surface, I'll aim for a 1:47 or 1:48. My 1:50 from the test run had pretty much optimal lines, but no good boosts. Going in front of the first hut will be a slower line to the grenade launcher and key, but I'll alert more guards and will get boosts on the way there to make up for, and surpass the time lost. And I'll try making some noise in other parts of the level to attract more guards.
(I might as well keep planning ahead while I'm at it, for reference and morale...)
Bunker I will try for 1:03. If I can get Boris to run right into the mainframe room this should be feasable. Lower would be possible with 2.3 control style, but enabling a second controller on this movie file causes it to desync. I can't improve the running part of this level much from what I had before, my lower time will depend heavily on Boris manipulation.
For Silo, I set the bar pretty high in my test run. I'll be satisfied to tie my 1:18, but I might be able to cut a second or two with a better door for the second fuel room. This would be done by cutting the cinema earlier (thus catching the first fuel room when the guard enters, rather than exits), and might put the patrolling guard closer to the second fuel room door when I get up there. I'll try to match the style and entertainment from the previous run too.
I'll settle for WR or better on Frigate. The hostages clearly love men, and I don't see why I should spend months manipulating them to complete the 0:57 I was able to fail.
Not entirely sure of what time I should predict for Surface 2, but it will be well below the current WR. I plan on strafing towards the left at first, getting the far cameras as soon as I can, then going and getting the key from the hut and finishing the level as normal, as the key and satellite building are on the opposite side of the map. A ridiculous mine throw and killer door warp will top everything off.
Bunker 2 will be an interesting level as it's more freeroaming than "run to the end of the level". Under 50 is possible, I'll be aiming for that, and probably study Miika's TAS of the level for ideas.
While Statue will likely be a boring level, I'll be beating the WR by several seconds. Frame perfect Valentin strafing and the earliest possible Trev shot alone will save 3-4 seconds from the elite's best time. Some good boosting and optimal strafing might get me another couple seconds. I don't think 2:14 or 2:15 to be unreasonable here.
I don't think I'll be able to beat the WR on Archives. Tying it won't be a problem, but so much of the level is Miskin's dialogue that frame-perfecting the rest of it might not get me a second ahead of the 0:55 WR.
I'll beat the WR on Streets from optimal Valentin strafing and boosting. 1:53-1:55 range I think.
The 0:50 Depot WR is probably the hardest one to get and a very impressive time for the level. I might be able to beat it by a second with everything done optimally.
I don't know enough about the Train to say what time I'll get or what I'll do there. It's probably the level I play least in the game.
Jungle will be the Agent WR time or better.
3:59 is what I hope to get on Control. I imagine this will be the funnest level for me to TAS as I have a lot of time to kill halfway through. Expect some of the funnier guard animations, as well as bullethole messages, emptying full clips into dying guards etc.
Mid to High 1:30 range for Caverns...
And 0:33 or, maybe, 0:34 for the Cradle (which is the Agent WR time if I'm not mistaken.)
If I do the extra levels as a supplement to be published along the run of beating the game, I'll get a low 1:30 on Aztec and 0:45 or 0:46 on Egypt.
I also plan to showcase as much of the games weaponary as possible, if not all of it. Also, in levels where I pick up two pairs of different weapons, I'll set up a mixed pair of weapons for coolness factor.
As for my immediate plans, I'm going out for a cigarette.
