***********DLTK MEANS DARK LICENCE TO KILL. IT'S AN OPTION IN 007 MODE (A MODE AVAILABLE AFTER YOU BEAT ALL THE LEVELS ON 00A) WHERE EVERYTHING IS SET TO MAX. ENEMIES TAKE LIKE 10 HEADSHOTS TO KILL AND YOU DIE IN ONE HIT. **********
So help me God if I had an N64 controller hook-up to my computer I would have made a Train DLTK vid by now. I can only imagine how cool the tool-assisted vids of GoldenEye will be. Rather than having to aim at only one enemy at a time in DLTK, you would be able to stun many guys on the screen with perfectly-aimed headshots. Only four DLTK levels haven't been done by humans: Train, Streets, Cradle, and Silo. I'd recommend that these be the first GE tool-assisted accomplishments because 1) they've never been done by humans yet, and 2) DLTK isn't as much about speed as it is about style, so perfect planning and frame cutting aren't important (at least for the first drafts) so these should be easy videos to make.
The Silo and the Streets both have time-limits, which make them very hard for a human player, but (probably) less so for a tool-assisted run.
There should be several different categories for time-attacks, following the structure the guys at www.the-elite.net use. I'm not sure there would be much point for any single-segment runs, as they would just be a few seconds longer than the individual level runs combined.
The categories should be: Agent, Secret Agent, and 00 Agent, of course. Along with LTK and DLTK. Also turbo mode. These should be primary. These gametypes are all big at the-elite. Other runs could include enemy rockets, turbo mode + fast animation, and slapper only. Tons of different gametypes can be created, but most are dumb.
While it's not necessary, for stylistic effect, we could get 100% accuracy with 100% headshots. (And possibly more with guns that shoot through guys.) However, this would take a longer time.
***********DLTK MEANS DARK LICENCE TO KILL. IT'S AN OPTION IN 007 MODE (A MODE AVAILABLE AFTER YOU BEAT ALL THE LEVELS ON 00A) WHERE EVERYTHING IS SET TO MAX. ENEMIES TAKE LIKE 10 HEADSHOTS TO KILL AND YOU DIE IN ONE HIT. **********
I think a single-segment run would make more sense, just because it's harder to do in real life and will tell the whole story. (I remember when I thought one-level runs of Adventures of Lolo would be a good idea...) You could do it on 00 Agent to unlock 007 Mode, but then you'd have to watch the whole game played all over again just to see it in "crazy hard" mode. Same problem for many other cheats, since they're earned on various difficulties in different levels.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Hmm... To playback a video of Train on DLTK someone would already need the savestate. I guess we'll have to begin including savestates with the videos.
I really think this is a non-issue. There is no good reason to do a single-segment run. It would be the same length of time as all the single segments (of the same difficulty) combined, with some extra frames.
Furthermore, if a method of beating an individual level faster is discovered, the one level can be redone, rather than re-doing the entire single segment run.
It just makes good sense to do it in the style of the-elite.net
Maybe the sheer number of movies would be too much for Bisqwit to handle. Perhaps we should talk with the-elite and see if they can start a "tool-assisted" part of their site for GoldenEye.
Yeah, that might work. See, that site only covers two games, while this site covers many games, so we try to limit movies to one per game, or sometimes two or three if there are other modes of play. The-Elite can afford to look at Goldeneye 007 in more depth.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Yeah, that might work. See, that site only covers two games, while this site covers many games, so we try to limit movies to one per game, or sometimes two or three if there are other modes of play. The-Elite can afford to look at Goldeneye 007 in more depth.
Agreed. Even from the NES days of this site we allowed a few different videos, like Mario with warps and Mario without warps. However, GoldenEye has so many different challenges that it would be best discussed at the-elite. Not to take away any credit from this site or anything, just a friendly affiliation between two gaming sites.
If Bisqwit's site is to accept only a few videos, it would be the gametypes that were intended to be played (ie, Agent, Secret Agent, and 00 Agent.) - the rest were created from the imaginations of the fans. (This is similiar to Zelda. We would have the legit game rather than a challenge like the sworldess run. In fact, I just checked, and we don't even have a sworldless run.)
So, for this site, we would have probably two videos for GoldenEye: the fastest run, and the fastest hard run. Agent is definitely faster than 00 Agent, but 00 Agent is the hardest (intended) game type. Secret Agent gets left out.
LTK, DLTK, slappers, and individual level runs for all levels will be at the-elite. At this point in time, I would recommend we wait a long while for the best strats to be discovered with the aid of the-elite guys before doing the single segment run for this one.
Um. Aren't we storing these movies in zips and torrents anyway? Have a series of emulator movies in the zip, and multiple avis in the torrent. The backend wouldn't need to be dramatically changed, and you could list the whole game under one entry. The hardest part would be adding the times.
Or you could have savestates to jump to the beginning of each level in the full movie. The only problem would be catching the in-game time and other statistics on the results screen, since it would only appear for a split second before the player moved onto the next level.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Um. Aren't we storing these movies in zips and torrents anyway? Have a series of emulator movies in the zip, and multiple avis in the torrent. The backend wouldn't need to be dramatically changed, and you could list the whole game under one entry. The hardest part would be adding the times.
But if one level is done better, the person would have to download that level individually. It would be silly to make them redownload all the other files along with the one new level. And if you release the bundle and the individual file seperately, that would be more to download. Say the old Facilitity is in the bundle, and the new Facility is released seperately. Someone will have to download the old Facility (even if they don't want to) to get the rest of the levels. If you placed the new Facility in the bundle, then someone would have to re-download all the levels they already have to get the one update. You could update the bundle AND allow for the individual file, to accomodate different conditions, but if that's the case, why not just release all the levels individually anyway?
Telling ya, the-elite got it right.
So you're saying we should suddenly start doing segmented runs?
Is there a particular loyalty to unsegmented runs? If this is for entertainment purposes, yes, do it segmented. It will just be easier on everyone. If it's for, "omg what can actually be done on a console," then stay unsegmented.
But this is very different than old NES games. In an NES game, your action in the beginning of the game may affect something later in the game. (I seem to recall Birdo movements in Mario 2.) In GoldenEye, there are a few different level enemy movement patterns for certain levels. If these are chosen randomly, this can be luck manipulated by choosing to start the level at different frames. Simply, what you do in the Dam will not affect something in the Facility. If I'm wrong from a theoretical / technical / if-we-had-an-awesome-supercomputer aspect, fine, but practically, doing an unsegmented run won't be anymore impressive than the segmented one.
I really don't see the difference. There could just as easily be some community dedicated to per-level times in Adventures of Lolo. That wouldn't mean that the people who run this site would want to record 50 different videos of Lolo levels and make torrents out of each one, though. It's generally considered more interesting to see the total time to get from the very start of the game to the very end of the game.
"The Adventures of Lolo? You'd better have saved the receipt."
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Joined: 7/29/2004
Posts: 136
Location: Temple City, CA
I HATE segmented runs. They are a pain to download, aren't nearly as fun to watch, and are a big waste of time. This game needs one run, and one run only. Fastest time through 00Agent.
"How can you prove you exist? Maybe we don't exist..."
-Vivi Ornitier (Final Fantasy IX)
I don't really think people should bother with these DLTK runs for the site. I forsee alot of jittering/spinning around which would make the run not very fun to watch. DLTK is not a mode which most people have even heard of; there doesn't even seem to be a section for it on the-elite (Is it hidden away on the forums somewhere?). That being said, alot of people might download the runs, and not even recognize them as the game they used to play many years ago.
Segmented runs shouldn't be made either, it should be done perfectly the first time. Unless someone finds some amazing new trick there should not compitition to get the best time. We are do not need to worry about luck or skill here. If a new trick is found after the run has been published, then that person can redo it. Hex edit if required.
Bottom Line: The game should be played by the games rules. Not some rules made up by the players to give themselves more of a challange.
I already offered a great compromise for the segmented vs. unsegmented debate. For THIS site, we can have the one (or few) unsegmented run(s). These would probably be on Agent (for fastest time) and 00 Agent (for hardest *intended* difficulty.)
The unsegmented runs could be a different part of the-elite, if they allow it, of course. I'm not sure if any of them are even interested in doing tool-assisted runs, but if any of them are, they could work on the levels individually over there.
GoldenEye will be a hard game to perfect on a single-segment run. First of all, you'd already have to be a MASTER of the game to do the run adequately. Second of all, there are probably tons of tricks/glitches/strats which are possible on an emulator, but have never been done or are too risky to pull off in real life. This is why I suggest allowing a lot of time for the individual levels to be perfected before doing the single segment run.
I think that DLTK is a very valid strategy. I don't know what criteria I use to judge this, but, as an example... A swordless Zelda 1 run seems like a valid challenge. A "Secret to Everybody"less Zelda 1 run is... kinda dumb. Sure, it would require a different planning route and such, but why even do it?
DLTK is a very legitimate challenge. It is the hardest way to play the game without limiting any of your abilities. (They have weird things, like "no strafe" challenges also.)
Another reason to do DLTK is: it is an accepted gametype that has its own rankings in the die-hard GoldenEye community AND there are levels which haven't been beaten yet. We're not just going to be showing off the emulators capabilities for some arbitrary challenge; we're going to be showing what an emulator can do that no human has been able to do yet, even though they've tried.
Maybe a little bit of bias is coming in here, but... I think this game should be left to the GoldenEye fans. Someone who is just introduced to the game casually should not do this run. Someone who has not followed the-elite should not do this run. The accepted challenges by the GE community should not be disregarded because it'll be require too many video submitions.
