Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States
Hmm, it doesn't seem possible to manipulate bombs from any of the bushes outside level 2. 2 of them always drop ember seeds. The other 3 seem to only drop rupees, hearts, fairies and seeds. I noticed in your run that you got a bomb drop from one the moblins without any waste of time. I'm going to go ahead and try that.
I finished level 1 for the second time.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/2841/OoATAS.vbm
The run is much better now. I managed to get perfect enemy setups(except for one room where I had to move 1 pixel to avoid a skeleton). I also couldn't get the damage boost from the boomerang. I tried 20+ setups and none worked. Oh well.
Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1942
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden
Very nice! It looks much better now. Good that you remade that part with the Maku Tree:).
I came about with an little idea... Can you pit glitch while carrying something...? I so, you can take a bomb, walk throw it and you will be damage boosted for Tingle Early:D. Could that work? Hehe, I haven't given up this yet, haha. (Because then I have to change my walk through...)
I was able to pit walk while holding the bomb, but couldn't find a way to boost. As long as the pit's pulling Link in, the bomb doesn't boost him(but still hurts him). Got anymore ideas? :)
Anyways, I found a save/quit trick: Once you reach the town after beating level 1, you can enter the shop then leave. After picking up the stone, you can save/quit to get back to town. Much faster than walking back. I'll post another WIP after reaching level 2.
Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1942
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden
Oh crap, another idea ruined:(. Let's see... ;D. If you drop the bomb while walking...? Guess you tried that;). IT MUST BE POSSIBLE!!! ARGH!!:D
Oh good, I thought you could save some timing entering a building and then S&Q, didn't do any researchs though. Well done.
Here's for E_alert: http://files.filefront.com/Ricky_and_Dimitrirar/;6220439;;/fileinfo.html
It contains 2 save states. One is a Ricky save file and one is for Dimitri. Now it is easy to test which one is the fastest.
Save state 1 is Ricky and 9 is Dimitri.
dezbeast: Oh... haha, thanks for the explanation. It seems there is more to it than I thought, which is not really unusual. :/
Tompa: Thanks for that. I'll get to testing.
Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1942
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden
You shall have go above the bush you burned instead of walking besides it. that would save some frames:).
Avoid walking into the grass sometimes. In the village at the old man and in the forest near dungeon 2.
Nice at Vasu, haha:D. Didn't know that you could walk down there.
If you need to slash the red slime thing on your way to the mystery seeds, try to make it drop some rupees.
And I'm just curious: What happens if you, after you have taken the seeds, glitch over the holes again and walk around to the screen where the soldier catches you? ;D
Nice job anyway!
A little trick, as you may know already, when you have the feather you can charge your sword, jump and release it on your way down and then jump again. This won't cause you to lose time while using the sword. Quite neat actually:).
You shall have go above the bush you burned instead of walking besides it. that would save some frames:).
Oh yeah, haha. I don't think it would save that much time though because you would have to walk down after the bush disappears.
Avoid walking into the grass sometimes. In the village at the old man and in the forest near dungeon 2.
At the old man, its faster to walk through the grass instead of going around it. Near level 2, it would save time since you have to go down anyway. Guess I missed that one.
If you need to slash the red slime thing on your way to the mystery seeds, try to make it drop some rupees.
Yeah, I have to slash him. I couldn't get him to jump like I do later. I could try to get him to drop rupees, but I doubt I'd be able to do it without wasting time. I was thinking of getting most of my rupees once I get the feather, since I could kill any enemy without wasting time.
And I'm just curious: What happens if you, after you have taken the seeds, glitch over the holes again and walk around to the screen where the soldier catches you? ;D
Haha, I already tried that, but it wasted a lot more time than just going down.
Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1942
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden
Oh, it was faster to go around it:O. Hmm, odd... Oh well, good then:).
You shall still be able to get the rupee without losing time, but yeah. You can really think about the rupees later:). All bout the ten on Crescent is needed for the goron place, hehe. What a waste of money to dance...
Yeah, I know you will lose time on it. Just wanted to see how it would look like=).
Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States
Vespa spotted quite a noticeable error in my WIP. It goes all the way back in the Hero's Cave. Fortunately, I was able to fix it without too many desyncs. Now I'm 20 frames ahead.
Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1942
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden
Oh, what did I miss now?:O Hmm... Got to look at it again... I'm not using frame counter or similar when I'm watching WIP's, just using my own eyes and mind to see if something could be improved.
When I'm watching your movie now I can't see what you did that slowed you done... What was it?
Good Vespa that you found out though. And also that you, dezbeats, wanted to remake eveything again.
Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States
In the room before the key, I went around the bottom instead of just walking diagonally and crossing over the pit. For some reason I was originally convinced that pit walking is so slow that I should avoid it as much as possible. It turns out that its not as slow as I thought.
Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States
I was able to get everything else after that part exactly the same, though I had to insert frames here and there to fix all the desyncs. So there were no other improvements.
Hmm, I have done a bunch of testing with general movement comparisons:
For the Animal Regions, in Ages: Moosh is slowest, then Ricky is slightly faster. Dimitri is MUCH faster than both, over 2000 frames difference. I have not tested the Seasons regions.
For general travel, Moosh walks and flies at the same speed as Link's walking. Dimitri swims at Link's walking speed (though faster than both of Link's swimming methods), but walks on land slower than Link. Ricky walks fastest, but Link's running is still faster than that.
That travel info is pretty much useless for Ages, because there is almost no chance to take advantage of your animal's speed. As I told Tompa on MSN, between the time you attain Ricky and the time you attain the Pegasus Seeds, there is barely any time to take advantage of Ricky's speed, and even then you can't take Ricky in most of those places anyway. As for Dimitri, there is a huge swimming section of the game, but most of it requires regular diving and time-warping, rendering his swimming capabilities inappropriate. Moosh is totally useless.
However, I am not as familiar with Seasons, so there may be a chance to take advantage of the general movement bonuses (though the regions speed is obviously much more of a deciding factor, especially since the Seasons regions are huge compared to the Ages regions).
As for Link's swimming technique/s, I have been testing those, but I am not final on it. I will get back with the results later.
Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States
Yes, optimizing the movement bonuses in Seasons shall be fun and challenging at the same time. As for deep swimming in Ages, it seems best to press the arrow key of desired direction for 5 or 6 frames then let go for 1 frame and then do it again. I haven't tested letting go for more than 1 frame though.
Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1942
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden
Oh well... I feel like I have nothing to do right now. So I will try to set up some Pegasus Seed routes:). That's like the only route thing I've left I presume. And I want to help as much I can.
I will first look after where there are pots and bushes with seeds in them, and then check for the best places to use them on. OOOH yeah, this is going to be hard :D.
Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1942
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden
It depends on how much you wish to improve if I find something you could do better ;D. Try to post like before and after each dungeon or something... I don't know.
As for Pegasus seeds: One seed from the tree gives you 6 to use others it is 5. One seed can last for around 480 frames. I have been looking for some bushes/pots that you can manipulate to drop these seeds. So long I haven't found a good one that doesn't cause you to lose time. But there are those bushes in the Animal Region that will drop seeds. Some enemies that drop seeds are the creeps hiding under bushes, the moldorms, the enemies flying around the screen which everyone hates etc. I know that there are more, but I have nothing 100% sure at the moment :D. Will continue...
I also found out with Ricky that you don't need to charge the punch to destroy bushes that are at a hole. Ricky can jump and hit them in the air without losing any time.
Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States
I have no hotmail account. I guess I could make one.
I haven't made it too much further since I've been working on my other run a bit. I'm just past that boring hiding game. It seems there are 2 different paths the Subrosian can be manipulated to take in each screen depending on how many times you slash before going to the next screen. There is a way to do this in real time. Just memorize how many times to slash for her to take the quicker path. Vespa happened to lose over 450 frames at that part.
I also found out with Ricky that you don't need to charge the punch to destroy bushes that are at a hole. Ricky can jump and hit them in the air without losing any time.
You actually do lose some frames when punching with Ricky in midair. I am not sure exactly how many, but it's noticeable even in realtime if you're looking for it.
