About the run

  • Used emulator: 1.7.2 re-recording v21-interim
  • Aims for the highest score without wasting time
  • Takes damage to save time
  • Second quest/Post game-completion
  • Genre: Platform
I had the idea of running this game in hard mode for a long time and I began working on it after I finished my regular TAS. After completing the game once, you are given the oppportunity to play through it once more in hard mode. There are more enemies in hard mode so I thought it would make a more interesting TAS. Unfortunately, many enemies can't be jumped on or comboed, be it due to the level design or due to lag. I asked the community in the Super Mario Land thread if I should attempt the maximum score even at the expense of lag, but I eventually decided to go for the lag-free option because 1) I wanted a clean TAS. Ignoring the lag may have led to some unpleasant moments in my run and it is rather arbitrary. 2) The moments where I can't combo enemies because it would result in more lag are kept to a minimum and it's hardly noticable now.

Why does this TAS run from a savestate?

In order to unlock hard mode, one needs to complete the normal game first. There aren't any save files so starting from reset wasn't possible. I took the regular TAS and continued from there, quitting the end credits sequence as soon as possible. This felt like the least arbitrary way of starting the TAS, better than using a sloppy playthrough for the normal mode. I'm not sure if the game resets the RNG after the end credits, but my assumption is it doesn't. Waiting at the "The end" screen might have resulted in better luck with the x-3 levels... I didn't test it. But I didn't want to use such a strategy to 1) avoid a luck-manipulation mess where I redo many levels over and over (which already is tedious with inserting idle frames in x-1 and x-2 levels). 2) It felt less arbitrary too.
So I cut off the regular TAS since I only wanted to present the hard mode TAS and not a 25 minute movie of both the regular and the hard mode TAS.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/277491756/Super%20Mario%20Land%20TAS%20HARD%20MODE.vbm This is the complete movie file. The savestate this submitted TAS runs from was taken on frame 51701.
The regular TAS was thought to be unimprovable until I came up with the crouching trick which saved 4 frames. If this movie was to be published, I'm not sure how future movies should be handled (should they use the improved regular TAS or not?). Maybe it's the best if the next player is given the option to wait at the previous mode's "The end" screen until the RNG is perfect. I'm not sure if this strategy would work, though, as I mentioned earlier. The luck this TAS had was already very good. Only about 6~9 idle frames needed to be inserted.

Level comments

LevelComments
1-1There are many enemies here that I can't hit due to level design.
1-2This got to be the best level to show off hard mode's potential. Here was also the first occurence where a combo would have resulted in lag so I needed to avoid a part of it.
1-3-
2-1This is the level where I stopped progress for a long time because I wasn't motivated to deal with the bonus screen in 2-3 (meaning I would have to redo 2-1 and 2-2 many times). Luckily, no idle frames needed to inserted in these levels at all!
2-2Many enemies can't be hit here due to level design either.
2-3Strangely, I was able to kill the boss here with no delay occuring in the bonus screen (which wasn't the case with the regular TAS). This may support the reasoning that someday the 5000 points from this boss can be gotten in the regular TAS without delay.
3-1There is some lag in the beginning of this level, but nothing much can be done about it.
3-2-
3-3Manipulating this level's bonus screen is different from 1-3 and 2-3. The bonus screens in those levels seem to depend solely on timing whereas the bonus screen of 3-3 depends on other things too. This image ([dead link removed]) describes the problem I experienced. This bonus screen may depend on the behavior of the boss, Mario's position, the time he falls down... 5 idle frames needed to be inserted here.
4-1There is much lag in the tunnel sequences here and I needed to miss a coin block to reduce the lag...
4-21 frame was lost at the last falling platform due to how the game works: Falling platforms and enemies are shifted leftwards as the screen progresses so their positioning isn't accurate all the time. Mario steps on the falling platform later than in my improved regular TAS even though both runs had the same movement (they both went 1 pixel, 2 pixels, 1 pixel, 2 pixels etc. at the same screens). This may be caused by a different frame number so the object shifting is much related to how the screen scrolls only at every other frame in 2-3 and 4-3, independant on when the level started. I'm not sure if my reasoning is correct though...
4-3-

Possible improvements?

I can get one more coin in 1-1, at frame 350. However, this results in one more lag frame in 4-2 so it's actually slower. If I get the coin in 1-1 and miss one purposefully in 4-1, the result is the same as when I miss it in 1-1 (the TAS syncs until the end). It seems like the number of coins has an effect on the lag in that instance in 4-2. Maybe future movies will be improved by missing certain coins in certain levels or keeping the number of coins low...

Closing words

Enjoy the run :)

Flygon: Added YouTube module.

Nach: Despite this being an excellent run, and being well received by the audience, acceptance isn't easy, due to starting from a save state. This movie is "impure". Ideally any movie trying to obsolete this will start from the exact save used here, but that is unenforceable. Till we can come of with some sort of alternative though, we really have no other way to create a movie of this kind, other than hacking the game to begin with hard mode, and having the movie made with the hack. Therefore, I'm accepting this for now. We'll need some alternative solution for future runs.


Editor, Expert player (2329)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3933
Location: Germany
You will lose time if you let go of "right" or "B" even if it is only for one frame. So Firing slows you down and I only used it to reduce lag (by killing piranha plants, for example). I was aiming for fastest time as my primary goal and best score as my second goal.
Emulator Coder
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
mklip2001 wrote:
it is only marginally longer
Not really. Cut off the second of "The End" at the beginning, and the movies are almost the exact same length.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
sgrunt
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Former player
Joined: 10/28/2007
Posts: 1360
Location: The dark horror in the back of your mind
Onyx3173 wrote:
Are you sure 'Aims for maximum score' should be there for this game?
It's been made clear in the past that this tag exclusively applies when the author's aiming for high score at the expense of fastest time. This is not the case here; hence this tag is inappropriate and I've removed it. I believe it was a previous normal mode run of this very game where this was noted, for that matter.
Emulator Coder
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
sgrunt wrote:
It's been made clear in the past that this tag exclusively applies when the author's aiming for high score at the expense of fastest time.
Since when? It's been made clear the exact opposite.
Guidelines wrote:
It is possible to set auxiliary goals, such as “as high a score as possible without wasting time”, but, as stated, it must not interfere with the primary goal of fastest completion.
Going for high score is meant to not interfere with time. Further, it's been used for many games where time was not interfered with.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
N._Harmonik
She/Her
Joined: 8/27/2006
Posts: 502
Location: Canada
Shouldn't the 'Hard Mode' run obsolote the 'Normal Mode' run?
Why, oh, why do I even <i>try</i> to understand my own species?
Joined: 12/22/2009
Posts: 291
Location: Michigan
Why would it?
Current projects: Yoshi's Island Disassembly Yoshi's Island any% TAS with Carl Sagan
N._Harmonik
She/Her
Joined: 8/27/2006
Posts: 502
Location: Canada
DJSecret wrote:
Why would it?
Because it's tradition. If it wasn't, this whole site would be filled with runs of every difficulty level.
Why, oh, why do I even <i>try</i> to understand my own species?
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
You mean it isn't?
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Noxxa
They/Them
Moderator, Expert player (4124)
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4090
Location: The Netherlands
N. Harmonik wrote:
DJSecret wrote:
Why would it?
Because it's tradition. If it wasn't, this whole site would be filled with runs of every difficulty level.
I do believe for a hard run to obsolete a normal run the hard difficulty needs to be available right from the start. And the only case where a normal run has been obsoleted by a slower hard run is, as far as I know, Rockman no Constancy normal obsoleted by Rockman no Constancy hard.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Skilled player (1326)
Joined: 9/7/2007
Posts: 1354
Location: U.S.
Although this isnt really a normal vs. hard debate, Wario Land 4 easy, and Wario Land 4 hard also had this kid of obsoletion.
Joined: 5/19/2010
Posts: 259
Location: California
Mothrayas wrote:
And the only case where a normal run has been obsoleted by a slower hard run is, as far as I know, Rockman no Constancy normal obsoleted by Rockman no Constancy hard.
Well, Gunstar Heroes also had an Expert-mode 2-player run obsolete a faster Normal-mode 1-player run. But as for Super Mario Land, I don't think hard-mode should obsolete the normal-mode run.
#3201
Editor, Expert player (2329)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3933
Location: Germany
I suppose the image in the submission text's level comments' 3-3 section is gone forever?