This topic is for the purpose of discussing #1686: Cpadolf's SNES Super Metroid "any%, in-game" in 41:22.47

I liked it, although I wished you could've got sub-24. Fortunately there weren't as many pause screens as I expected.

Which is more important, generally, real time, or in-game time?

Which is more important, generally, real time, or in-game time?

In-game time for those who want to compare with human-only playing performances. I hold real time more important.

Generally on the site I think that realtime are favoured, IMO depending on the game ingame time is just as improtant, in this specific game ingame time and realtime creates 2 vastly different runs so I think both are important.

that was very very............. different cpadolf! nice job nice job! did you test all thís routes/item takes or did you know they were faster? btw yes vote!

I knew (or Hero/Saturn knew). The route has been tested against teris and is slightly faster, and all the items collected are quite obvious, no out of the way items. EDIT: The only iffy part is however to get spazer or not, It is in the end pretty much equally fast but only if you use murderbeam which is lame.

A sure yes vote! This is the TAS I've been waiting for the most, and it didn't disappoint me not one second. Very good job CPadolf, congrats. Of course, few CWJ's would've made the run cooler. ;)

I enjoyed watching it, so I'll have to vote yes. I'm not sure it should obsolete hero's run though. You saved 87.5 ingame seconds while adding 112 seconds of door transition crap, including the pretty ugly luck manipulation screen after phantoon. Not sure I like that. If you had reached 23.xx that would be an easy choice, but 24.xx could have been achieved with less boring realtime sacrifices - hero's 25:32 (?) minus 22 seconds torizo skip is already close to that goal. so what do those movies have to offer to the average viewer for entertainment? novelity value of hero's realtime route (compared to regular playthroughs or regular speedruns): - WS early - lower norfair before Maridia - skipping the plasma beam - using short charge and emergency stop in unexpected situations - heavy ammo and item restrictions novelity value of this ingame time route: - WS early, 1 round phantoon - Torizo skip - Plasma vs. Kraid - skipping the spazer - faster ridley and MB battles (samus looked bored during MB's second phase) - a completion time of 24 minutes (did I miss something?) If this was implemented it'd be an option to publish both alongside each other. Right now I consider hero's run to be more entertaining and thus I don't think it should be obsoleted.

Mandatory read for everyone asking about timing: http://tasvideos.org/SuperMetroidTricks.html#mechanics_of_the_in_game_timer_ Notes on this run: 1. I liked it. Good thing you've managed to avoid losing comparably big amounts of time on manipulation and such. (EDIT: Well, yeah, except that Phantoon pause screen. I was so used to fastforwarding through the dying scenes that I accidentally overlooked it, lol.) I'll be voting yes, and I think it should replace Hero's run on grounds on being somewhat more optimized (there are some really noticeable mistakes, though, but it was expected) and containing more up-to-date strategies, Torizo skip being one of them. A more optimized run, be it realtime- or ingame-oriented, should obsolete it in the future. 2. The completion time is 24:04'22. Which means a non-glitched any%, no matter what timer it's going to be aiming for, won't go below 23 unless something major happens. Getting 23:xx without Torizo skip also seems unrealistic, as there is little to no way this run contains more than 10-12 seconds of mistakes, let alone ~24 required to pull it off. 3. This route sets a good compromise between ingame and reatime oriented goals since it skips pause screens completely, setting realtime length very close to Hero's run, which should help realtime-oriented runs loving people derive more pleasure from it. Personally, I think the run was very enjoyable. Congratulations on this achievement, Cpadolf. I was glad to help you reach it.

Yeah, people think differently. IMO the door transitions are so short and unoticeable that they do not anoy me at all, the pause screen where very unfortunate, I have made another run with this route that used 0 pause screens... Yeah, I excpected that I would miss things, I'm not experiensed enough yet. But could you please note the most most obvious ones? BTW If this run does not contain more then 10-12 seconds worth of misstakes it has exeeded what I thought I could do...

murderbeam which is lame.

i love murderbeam

This is an excellent and well optimized run, though I have mixed feelings. Normally I am happy to see my runs get obsoleted, but this one has different goals and is actually slower on the realtime count. Obsoleting my run really isn't an issue, the main issue is that in-game clock becomes the new standard at this website.

Obsoleting my run really isn't an issue, the main issue is that in-game clock becomes the new standard at this website.

I still fail to see how it becomes a new standard at this website just because a new movie is oriented at ingame time, just as all the runs preceding yours were. The current Fusion and MZM runs are also oriented for ingame time, does that mean standards are changing? No. A more optimized run wins, that should be it.

I enjoyed this run. Phantoon battle = sex in a basket.

@Moozooh & others, when I make a new realtime oriented run, how will you know if it is more optimal than this? Without a set standard there is no logical means for comparison. I do consider this more optimal than my run. We just don't know exactly how much more it actually is.

Just watched - I'm not too sure what to vote. I didn't enjoy the pause screen at Phantoon, and some errors (I think, I'm not too well-versed in SM tricks) practically punched me in the face. The mother brain fight looked very uninteresting, too. :) Yeah, made up my mind; I'd rather see real-time frames improved. This was certainly less entertaining. Sorry, but I have to vote no.

when I make a new realtime oriented run, how will you know if it is more optimal than this? Without a set standard there is no logical means for comparison.

It will be measured by the in-room (not strictly in-game) performance. Comparing door transitions is for the most part pointless since different emulators emulate them differently. When we compare our WIPs, how do we know one is more optimal than the other? It's not particularly hard to see when a player loses in-game time because they sacrifice it for frame count, and when it is the other way around. On a larger scale, it's sufficient to say that both the current routes (this and your updated one) are planned optimally (until proven otherwise, which I don't see happening soon), so the only thing worth comparing now is small scale performance. The same situations appear when a movie gets obsoleted by another which sets different goals, like different difficulty setting, or taking damage. Happens all the time. It still comes down to "more optimal vs. less optimal".

Sweet run, voting yes. I prefer real time over in-game time. I have no problem with multiple categories and such when there's a good reason for it though, and my opinion is that's what we're looking at here. Edit: If that's not an option, I vote hero's run stays.

Yeah, unfortunately, until Tub's idea is implemented… yadda yadda. :(

Very nice run, especially as a first time submission. I am however a very strong supporter of real time, and not ingame time, so I'll refrain from voting.

Well it's not like it's COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE at this moment right? There are plenty of games with more than one run. Super Metroid comes to mind.

Well, the most I see happening in this case is mentioning the other goal-oriented submission in the published movie's text. At this point the administration is against publishing two any% runs aside each other.

Well, the most I see happening in this case is mentioning the other goal-oriented submission in the published movie's text. At this point the administration is against publishing two any% runs aside each other.

Let's hope the administration is able to choose that option anyway then.

it's very unlikely that you'll see four different Super Metroid runs (or 4 movies of any other game) on the movie listing at the same time. Most games are allowed only two.