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Yeah maybe you'll have better luck doing it. Btw that 8 wasn't a typo. Even though it doesn't look like it Tails can actually grab the ring right next to the one you marked on the slope. EDIT: I don't think that right collision for this. I might've found another way to get those rings though.
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If using that rock doesn't work out for you (which most likely won't). You can use this method to grab those rings. Link to video Here's the gmv. I made a separate one for these rings. http://www.yourfilelink.com/get.php?fid=1371944 So that now makes 34 out of 97 rings we can grab (35 if you manage to get the one I showed off at the end of the first video).
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So, fundamentally, the reason Sonic and Tails can't get all of KTE's 97 rings is because his part of the level doesn't fully load for them, right? So parts of his level literally aren't there, including rings located in those parts. They don't exist in Sonic and Tails' campaign, technically. So it's practically and even theoretically impossible that they could ever collect them, much like it is that KTE could ever collect any rings from DEZ (without cheats). And those weren't included in KTE's ring table. Just like those 3 rings in KTE's SSZ, his final boss level, which are not included in the S+T rings table for SSZ. And rightfully so, I think. Unlike AIZ, however, those 3 rings occur in a separate level entirely, even if it happens to share the name, SSZ, with a level accessible to Sonic and Tails; KTE's SSZ boss is analogous to S+T's LRZ boss. Now, S+T's LRZ boss rings were included in KTE's ring table but in hindsight I think that was a mistake. In any case, KTE's SSZ is inaccessible to S+T in both practice and principle, right? The same is true of whatever rings are not loaded in his AIZ when playing as S+T. So I think it would be wrong, not to mention inconsistent, to include unloaded KTE AIZ rings in S+T's rings table. TL;DR: I think I will have to adjust the ring table so the total rings in AIZ for S+T should be what it is now, less any of those 97 rings that don't actually appear in the level regardless of whether or not they can be collected. And of course, the max rings will be changed to reflect those that can be.
Knuckles does, what Sonican't.
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@TheYogWog, Yeah kinda. Everything below the bottom level boundary (including the rings) do exist but are impossible to get to. I managed to get a 35th ring. Guess how many frames I had left to spare on Tails' despawn timer. Link to video The gmv http://www.yourfilelink.com/get.php?fid=1371992 I'm 90% sure those are all the rings Sonic and Tails can get. There are 11 more rings I theoretically could get from Knuckles' final room, but I don't think those are possible to get. I might still look into it tomorrow though. EDIT: Wait I lied. I'm pretty sure I can get all 11.
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Believe it or not I managed to get all 11 of those rings. I think this might be the craziest video out of all of them. Link to video Edit: Oops I forgot to show this off. To get Sonic out of that wall you just simply zip out. The gmv(s) http://www.yourfilelink.com/get.php?fid=1372392 One of the parts of this were so difficult to pull off that I couldn't do it more than once. So I had to make 3 different instances of the same gmv. They all have different names and share the same save state btw. We now have 46 out of 97 Knuckles rings. Unfortunately the rest are impossible to get because of the death boundary. There is however this one ring in Knuckles' second loop that's kinda bugging me. I couldn't get it because of the way the loop's solidity is designed.
Post subject: The only thing I can say is...
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Edit: I will be a little busy this week until friday, maybe you want to try a testrun in AIZ 2? To save time, so I can see if you testrun need small improvements or directly paste your input into the movie Try to do your best ;) Edit 2: Sorry I forgot the gmv and savestate, here is. GMV file Ring-attack savestate I recommend you start AIZ2 at frame 9300, don't worry if you can't perform the transition glitch at the end, I can do it. And... put this sound setting as seen in the image below to avoid desyncs and distorted sounds
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Yeah even I was amazed from that video. Do a AIZ2 run? Sure. I should mention that pulling off some of those tricks (especially some of the stuff in the last video) in an optimal way could prove to be difficult so it could take me a good while. I'll still try my best. Those sound settings explain why other people's gmvs play with high pitched sounds. I didn't have YM2612 High Quality enabled. At least we now know how to make high pitched encodes lol I did some testing with input splicing. It looks like I'm able to get the entirety of Hydrocity 1 to sync properly so maybe that idea will be possible after all. I did however run into some problems with act 2. Well I'll see what I can do when we have to new AIZ2 run finished.
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Take your time, don't hurry yourself :) When making a TAS, keep in mind that you have all the time you want to analyze the map and the situations and routes. A tiny example: in your last video, leave Sonic inside the ground and Tails first grab the rings on the right and wait for Tails to reappear and then grab the rings on the left and then eject Sonic from the wall at a hight speed (maybe?), I think this would be an example. When you reach the final part of AIZ2 near the tunnel, let me do this part, you may have difficulties making the tunnel jump and activate the transition glitch. And try to have Tails without the glitch of when it disappears under water and then appears on the ground, Tails has the speed as if it were under water, this can be fixed by letting Tails go in and out of the water again without disappearing Maybe it does not matter much but it can be annoying sometimes
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Don't worry I do take my time with these :) Thanks for reminding me about that glitch. I completely forgot about it. I can probably work with it in this level though.
Evil_3D wrote:
A tiny example: in your last video, leave Sonic inside the ground and Tails first grab the rings on the right and wait for Tails to reappear and then grab the rings on the left and then eject Sonic from the wall at a hight speed (maybe?), I think this would be an example.
I would do that if I could. Since Tails has a shorter hitbox he can't jump in those parts of the wall like Sonic and Knuckles can. That initial flight is the only thing that can get him down there so I have no choice but to do it 3 times from the start. EDIT: Is there a reason I shouldn't be using there C button?
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kaan55 wrote:
EDIT: Is there a reason I shouldn't be using there C button?
I'm more comfortable using the [A] to jump and spindash with A B A B A B, thats my way don't worry
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I finished the testrun. I started at roughly frame 8200 because I needed the signpost fire shield. http://www.yourfilelink.com/get.php?fid=1374339 I think I actually managed to pull off tunnel jump. It did take a bit of time figure out but overall it wasn't difficult to pull off. I ended the run at the beginning of the airship segment because I wasn't sure how you wanted me to handle that part. The fact that I lost about 3 minutes even while grabbing the Knuckles rings is a bit concerning. I hope I didn't mess up too badly. Also let me explain the beginning since I know you're going to question it. For some reason at the very start of act 2 the death boundary is set a bit higher than normal. Getting past a certain point (which is somewhere in the first tunnel) permanently sets it back to normal height. I needed it at the normal height so that Tails could grab a 2 more rings (which cost more time to grab later) at the start. When you're done with AIZ2 can you give me the gmv so that I may start trying to input splice it with the rest of the run. I most likely can get at least Hydrocity 1 to sync.
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The TAS looks fine, the bad side I can see I can't skip knuckles cutscene because Tails has the water velocity glitch, I can brake properly. I can boost myself with a spindash in the final part but I would lose much more time in In-game time adjusting the positions but it would save a little more of realtime ... who you guys think? Here is HHS explanation of how skip AIZ2 cutscene
HHS wrote:
Here is what needs to be done: - You must be playing with Sonic as your main character. - You must start the game from the beginning. - You must not die or enter a special stage during Angel Island Zone. If you're playing as Sonic and Tails, perform these steps: - When you are around X position $41B0, have Tails running behind you and brake with Tails for 5 frames before he falls. - When Robotnik is leaving the screen and you reach position $4680, brake for 2 frames with Tails and start running again. - When you reach position $4700, brake with Tails again for 5 frames. If you're playing as Sonic alone, do this instead: - When you reach position $41E8, brake for 5 frames. - When you reach position $4700, brake for 2 frames. If everything went right, the switch will now mistake itself for Knuckles, and hit itself as soon as it loads. It's also possible to make the bridge explode before the capsule is hit, but this is useless. To proceed to Hydrocity, the score tally must have ended before the switch loads. The main thing you want to accomplish with all this is to make sure that the switch is loaded in slot 6 ($FFB1BC). This is where Knuckles was loaded at the beginning of Act 1. If Tails is with you, slot 5 must also be free, because of an additional object that is created that keeps you from controlling Tails. Check list: - Before you begin, $FFFAA4 should contain the value $B1BC. - When the bomb plane is flying above you, $FFB1BC should contain the value $00050390. - When entering the boss area, $FFB1BC should contain the value $00000000. If playing as Sonic and Tails, $FFB172 should also contain the value $00000000. I'd be interested in knowing what happened earlier in the stage, because you've somehow managed it without doing anything special at position $4680 and $4700.
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hello guys Also Evil Im kinda stuck on HCZ1 on the ring attack with Knuckles again sorry :( here the gmv http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1668936863/Evil_3D%20%26%20Joseph-S3K-Knuckles-ringattack%20%281%29.gmv
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also kaan mind if encode this testrun of yours
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Yeah. I'm not sure if the inputs for this are still in the movie or not, but I actually tried to get Tails out of the water before he despawned. He unfortunately couldn't make it out in time. I don't think you'd be able to do it anyways. Since HHS said entering a special stage prevents you from doing the glitch. I'm pretty sure entering a bonus stage prevents you from doing it as well.
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Josephandsonicteam124 wrote:
also kaan mind if encode this testrun of yours
Go ahead, but I'd suggest waiting until we finish the level. Or you can finish it yourself if you really want to encode it.
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nvm ill wait im working on the knuckles ring attack with evil so ima wait till finish your part so I can encode.
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kaan55 wrote:
I don't think you'd be able to do it anyways. Since HHS said entering a special stage prevents you from doing the glitch. I'm pretty sure entering a bonus stage prevents you from doing it as well.
* Facepalm * Yep, I missed this detail, stupid from my part, well I will proceed to finish AIZ2 and try to copy all possible input with TASeditor, most probably to be desynchronized in MGZ2 or CNZ, these are the less friendly levels in S3 part
Josephandsonicteam124 wrote:
Also Evil Im kinda stuck on HCZ1 on the ring attack with Knuckles again sorry :(
Sorry joshep but for the moment I can't help you, maybe in the future I'll be able to focus on the Knuckles ring attack when I finish this TAS I think you have the potential to do it alone, you make good TASes when you propose it, the only tip I can give you is to see theyogwog movie for a good feedback and check positions frame-by-frame
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Alright Ill try
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The movie desync in HCZ1 nearby the boss zone thanks to some lag frames caused with the waterfall ejection :/ thats really bad luck http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1935030771/Evil_3D-TheYogWog-kaan55-S3K-ST-ringattack.gmv I hope you have more luck, kaan. Later I will upload a encode for the new WIP
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Yeah lag frames are the worst. Thanks man I'll try my best. Hopefully I'll be able to get the run to sync. EDIT: Can you give me a link to the TAS editor? That might help me.
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Well I fixed the rest of act 1 with input splicing. Now it desyncs at the beginning of act 2. I think it's somehow starting the inputs a frame early. EDIT: I fixed the first spindash but it immediately desyncs from the breakable barriers. There might be an inconsistent amount of lag frames there. EDIT 2: I was right. The new movie has an extra frame of lag from those breakable barriers.
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Hydrocity 2 might take me a while to sync. I'm having some difficulty with it atm. You know I'm surprised that the lag from the large group of rings in act 1 didn't cause any desyncs. EDIT: Well I've run into a unique issue. When I stop input splicing the game registers a button press with C the next frame which causes Sonic and Tails to do an unwanted jump. I hope TASeditor can help me get around this problem.
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TAS editor: www.mediafire.com/file/36e9fwldhxcwvcq/TAS+editor.rar
kaan55 wrote:
You know I'm surprised that the lag from the large group of rings in act 1 didn't cause any desyncs.
Yeah that the weirdest part, It give me angry that for 1 lag frame all the run is ruined for the water fall ejection A quick TAS Editor guide: 1. You can delete frames with "DEL" button in keyboard above the arrows. 2. You can copy or delete sections of frames holding: Shift and click the frame section with the mouse, Ex: if you want to delete or copy 50 frames, click on frame 1 and frame 50 later, and copy or delete about the involuntary input entry I think is a gens problem, this happen to me always when I use multitraks, idk if this happens in another emulators. you can fix the involuntary "C" button with TAS editor For now this is what I remember at the time of TAS editor, I hope you have luck in MGZ and the rest of the ACTs, It can be a hard work, do not try hard yourself
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Well I got a bit further in act 2. It eventually gets to a point where only Tails ends up desyncing for reasons I haven't figured out yet. I do have a few ideas on how I can fix that. Here's my progress http://www.yourfilelink.com/get.php?fid=1374809 That's probably all I'm gonna do for today because I'm quite busy atm. EDIT: I'm gonna share one those ideas in case you want to try it your self. The place Tails desyncs is near one of those rotating platforms which he got on in the run. Since those rotating platforms puts you in a fixed position, what you can probably do is manually (go ingame to record the inputs) get Tails on that platform and then let the existing inputs take over from there.