WST
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There is no spring
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2 my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
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Testing the levels I realized that there is a particular difficult act, Marble garden 2, Sonic and tails canot grab all the rings, if they go to Knuckles boss they canot grab those rings from his path and upside down. But i found a possible solucion: Hyper Sonic With hyper sonic can rise to the moving part in Knuckles path, the ground is not loaded in the memory and I can go trought it here and use tails to go up to Knuckles boss Here is an image. MGZ 2 test route I'm not sure to use this strategy, sadly is impossible jump up to Knuckles path with lightning shield and tails for the sky limit
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Before continuing with my ST movie, I have a question about the savestate; when I open the gmv gens says: "Desync Warning" "The state you are loading is inconsistent with the current movie. "Savestate contains no input data." But the movie never desync and works fine, any answer?
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I would advise against introducing Hyper Sonic into your run at all, because it raises the question: is the amount of rings gained by transforming greater than the amount lost by the transformation's ring consumption over time? Maybe it's possible to determine that one way or the other, but then that begs the larger question of how the ring attack ought to be evaluated, because whether or not that matters in the first place depends on the answer. Is success measured by the mere fact that all rings were, at some point during the level, collected, whether or not the HUD's 'Rings' field reflects that at score tally, or is that very reflection the most important criteria? In other words, do you go by what rings were actually collected or what the HUD says at the end? In non-transformation runs, it's both, but if you transform, you have to pick one. If the former, given the high speeds attained by both Hyper Sonic and the use of tool assistance, combined with the constantly decreasing 'Rings' value, I would point out that things could get pretty confusing with regards to determining whether or not rings trailing you when equipped with the Lightning Shield were actually collected, to the point of having to rely heavily on RAM watch to accurately make that determination (assuming that's possible) - which is fine, just something that would need to be considered, for what it's worth. And, to remain consistent, whichever answer you choose, you should also apply the same approach throughout the rest of the game. So, if you opt to transform here, in MGZ2, then you have to ask yourself if transforming is optimal everywhere else. At that point, maybe you would be better off just setting up a separate goal category specifically for Hyper-ring attacks. For example, in order of importance: transforming; collecting as many of the remaining rings as possible (without regard to HUD display at end, let's say); speed. So, that's my two cents four paragraphs about that. Also, hi everyone. I may not be around much of the time, anymore, but I do try to check in every now and then even if I don't post anything. Best of luck Evil_3D on your future endeavors. P.S.: That's not to say you couldn't or shouldn't transform at the very end of levels for entertainment purposes, so that the level ending reverts the transformation and cuts off any ring loss before it occurs.
Knuckles does, what Sonican't.
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Considering now there are only 19 rings in kte path in MGZ2. I think it is not convenient to collect them, the hyper transformation consumes me +30 rings I will surely discard this part of my route, the idea is to show how many rings + tvs + giant rings can grab sonic and tails per level, without transfor of course and show an big damn-f*cking ring amount in the hud. And thanks for you POV yogwog, maybe you still have you gmv's with sonic and tails? It would be nice to see your work done. P.S: can and admin verify my savestate if is good for TAS Videos rules? I would not like to continue and then reject the movie for this in the future. GMV and savestate
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Here's some. I couldn't find much with Sonic and Tails (SaT) right now besides some test runs for MGZ 1 and 2, which is nice because that's more relevant to the question you were asking. I don't think you'd have much to gain by examining my AIZ runs, for example, since your own AIZ runs were something like 15+ seconds faster already. But if you really want I can look around some more and probably find them. However, for now, I hope this helps. I did a fair bit of research into SaT ring runs a while back, so I've also included an old route guide I made, and some old - and very poorly written, sorry - notes I found, both pertaining to MGZ. The first movie file, MGZ1, is more in line with your wanting to see just, past examples, I guess, of my SaT TASing, so I hope it will suffice for that; the second movie, MGZ2, is extremely crude and apparently desyncs about half way through, but it may be of some use to you, potentially showing or at least providing some clues as to how to get the rings from Knuckles' area (be sure to watch it with camera-hacked Gens configured to render what's happening off-screen). Combined with the notes, you might have all the information you need with regard to MGZ2. Although, at this point my memory's hazy and I can't vouch for the reliability of the information, so take it for what it's worth and use it at your own potential peril... but, if my notes are correct, it should be possible to 100% not just MGZ2 but every act in the game as SaT (sans 97 rings in AIZ2, and any mutually exclusive signpost monitor rings). Oh, and of course my SaT runs are still available on YouTube, in case that helps.
Knuckles does, what Sonican't.
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Here's some more material on MGZ2. The first video shows how to get the ring in the wall described in the notes, the second was supposed to show how to get Knuckles' rings but there was a hitch. The linked image shows approximately where on the map the problem arose. It's an invisible wall on the roof of the building. In the linked test videos, which I threw together this afternoon, I was unable to bypass the wall. If there is indeed no way around it - whether by somehow slipping through it or preventing it from spawning outright - then the strategy for collecting the rings outlined in my notes won't work, it seems. You might notice if you play around in the dirtyMGZ movie, that wall isn't there, unlike my most recent test run. Edit: And when I say it isn't there, I mean it is there, but in a different form as it's possible to spindash through it. I don't know why it's present sometimes, but not others; however, I did take a different route to reach it in the previous trial. Yet, in an alternate version of the current trial, when I tried replicating that route, the wall was still there. These are the kinds of things only true geniuses like MarzoJr or WST will understand. Perhaps a full test route run is in order, meaning tracing the exact route (whatever hypothetical route you choose) from the beginning of MGZ2 (beginning from the end of a 'safe' MGZ1 file, one in which you collect all the rings according to your intended route there) up to and including the problem wall to see what happens. Who knows, maybe something, some variable, would change along the way to solve the problem. I don't have time to perform this test myself, unfortunately. Or maybe dying or entering a starpost at some point would fix it? That's all I can think of. Good luck man. Edit: Oh, by the way, I see you said there were 19 rings on Knuckles route which you were thinking of forgoing. I know exactly which ones you mean. You should be able to collect at least 12 of them - all but the final 7. I'm not quite positive about this, but I'm pretty sure... you'd just need to either camera glitch back out of Drill Mobile's room or, if possible, use Tails to glitch through the speed shoes monitor and into the wall and go from there. It might even possible to get back out by going left over the roof, from the small outdoor area between buildings. Edit: Yeah, I'm positive - I just tested and you can camera glitch back out of Drill Mobile's room, as long as you entered it and opened the trapdoor above beforehand.
Knuckles does, what Sonican't.
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Thanks man, I really apreciated you help, for some reason 2 of the movies desync and the sound is distorted (maybe for a old gens version or room?) but that one with the unreachable ring works fine. you route planned looks very well, I will use it in the future, for now I will continue with the previous zones first.
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Hm, they don't desync for me (except the one that I mentioned). What ROM file were you using? Mine is Sonic and Knuckles & Sonic 3.bin.
Knuckles does, what Sonican't.
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I have the Sonic and Knuckles & Sonic 3 (W) [!].bin maybe you can send me you room?
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I think it is the same then. Oh well.
Knuckles does, what Sonican't.
WST
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I can confirm that Gens can have random desync issue; it’s especially bad with a pirate game Mario 3, which I wanted to TAS, but had to abandon the project because the game is nearly inTASable because of the desync issues.
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2 my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
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YogWog sent me the room but still desync, it must be a problem with gens like WST mentioned.
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WST
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Evil_3D wrote:
YogWog sent me the room but still desync, it must be a problem with gens like WST mentioned.
In fact, such shit once happened to me once when doing a short TAS for a TASvideos submission. This one. I just recorded a short TAS and when I tried to replay it, the boss fight was messed up. Well, that was a joke submission anyway. So, when you work on your TASes, keep in mind that you have to replay it over and over again, to see if the things go fine. Sadly, some TASes can desync from the first attempt, but then play well from the second attempt and so on. Especially that Mario 3 thing… Totally crap, have no idea how to TAS it.
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2 my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
marzojr
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I have never encountered any desynchs in Genesis Sonic games that were not my fault.
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Make sure you're using gens rerecording 11a or applied this patch
WST
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These days I’m kind of outside TAS scene, my new job is extremely busy, way greater than I even expected. Also, the desync issue isn’t actually the most disturbing one. It usually doesn’t happen to Sonic games (well… usually). A more annoying problem is that new wine causes frequent Gens crashes. I recorded a short gmv for Evil_3D some days ago, and it was deadly hard because of those crashes. I think I need some rest from TAS, given all those problems and my busy life :) sorry guys. Good luck, Evil_3D.
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2 my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
marzojr
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r57shell wrote:
Make sure you're using gens rerecording 11a or applied this patch
Can you explain exactly what that patch does, as I asked in GitHub?
Marzo Junior
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with gens 11a theyogwog's movie crash gens directly (for me), Anyway it does not matter anymore. Good luck you too, WST I hope can back to TAS in the future. Here is the WIP 6 of Knuckles any% up to LBZ 2 GMV Link to video
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marzojr wrote:
Can you explain exactly what that patch does, as I asked in GitHub?
Changes of code (commits) itself with comments should be enough. Otherwise I should for some reason explain technical details. It's too long text. I don't see this reason. I can try in short: if Do_VDP_Refresh() was called it was changing VDP_Current_Line. Now it's backed up.
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r57shell wrote:
Changes of code (commits) itself with comments should be enough. Otherwise I should for some reason explain technical details. It's too long text. I don't see this reason. I can try in short: if Do_VDP_Refresh() was called it was changing VDP_Current_Line. Now it's backed up.
Speaking of changes, might I persuade you to make a pull request for this? I found the added tools amazingly useful.
Marzo Junior
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marzojr wrote:
Speaking of changes, might I persuade you to make a pull request for this? I found the added tools amazingly useful.
This seems to be the newer version: https://www.romhacking.net/utilities/1123/
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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marzojr wrote:
r57shell wrote:
Changes of code (commits) itself with comments should be enough. Otherwise I should for some reason explain technical details. It's too long text. I don't see this reason. I can try in short: if Do_VDP_Refresh() was called it was changing VDP_Current_Line. Now it's backed up.
Speaking of changes, might I persuade you to make a pull request for this? I found the added tools amazingly useful.
I'll pass.
marzojr
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r57shell wrote:
marzojr wrote:
Speaking of changes, might I persuade you to make a pull request for this? I found the added tools amazingly useful.
I'll pass.
If you provide the source code for the latest version of your mod, I can merge it myself.
Marzo Junior
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I finished AIZ in my S+T ring attack and improved 1 second ACT 1. Sonic + Tails ring-attack up to AIZ2 Sonic + Tails ring-attack Savestate / to play this movie Video Link to video The only thing left is skip the bridge event like in the published TAS, anyone know how?
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