so the "all-souls-run" is still in the works? would be sweet to see all souls collected in such a short time (took me forever to get every soul on my gba)
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
Are you sure it's frame effective to skip the Skeleton Knight soul? From the calculations I did like 2 years ago, having both the Combat Knife and the Skeleton Knight soul cuts down on a lot of swings before you reach the first Minotaur.
Otherwise, run looks good. My only qualm is how sloppy your Floating Garden is. I thought it was desynching at first, only to realize that you were slowly killing yourself to make Lubicant more effective. Despite that, I think it looks a bit off. Maybe you could make it flashier and more convincing?
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
Yeah! zggzdydp! Some parts look sloppy, but most of the run goes very smooth! Isn't a Spoiled Milk (-800HP) or 2 Rotten Meats(-200HPiirc) better than taking damage fom enemies? And wtf will you use the Catoblepas soul for?
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself.
It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the
kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional
functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success."
- Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
Are you sure it's frame effective to skip the Skeleton Knight soul?
I'm not sure. Both Atma and pirate_sephiroth didn't get the soul in their runs, so... I skip it. :(
I know it looks not good that taking damage from enemies. I tried to get Spoiled Milk and killed Evil Butcher many times, but it didn't drop. I had to do that. Anyway, maybe that's a bad idea, but it doesn't lost any frame(it seems to save several frames of using Spoiled Milk), the effect is same that using Lubicant's soul by 1HP and 3HP.
Now I keep the run for some time. I can't get Lubicant's soul... the damned enemy.
Isn't it obvious? He's using it for animation cancelling when backdashing, which puts him some 13-14 seconds ahead of Yrr between taking the soul and reaching the Floating Garden just like that. Smart thinking, zggzdydp! And I'm happy you're working on this run, the published run is overdue for improvement (however, the glitchless run is obviously more so, I hope someone will correct that in the near future).
Two questions, though. First, I think your movement method is slower than mine or klmz's, have you checked that? That is something to correct if you'll ever be going to redo the run. Second, how faster going to Arena through Floating Garden is, compared to going through Underground Reservoir?
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
DOH! I fast forwarded through most of the run... I was waiting for some new route or something like that, and I didn't notice the new technique... hahah great
By the way... moozooh... that file you posted ISN'T my last WIP...
Maybe I forgot to show it to you?
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself.
It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the
kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional
functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success."
- Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
I don't remember if I had anything more recent than that since I've lost my entire emulation-related stuff (long and dumb story); but it's well possible that you did. :) Or at least it was the last public WIP that I had.
Regarding the new route, there it was… But what do you think about it? For normal mode, it seems faster due to Yoko stabbing cutscene skip, what about hard mode?
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Well try this instead, that's the correct, most recent version.
I really do think that Hard mode is worth it because of skipped cutscenes. There's really quite a lot of long dialogues that you skip, which should in theory more than offset the slightly higher HP's.
To moozooh: 1. I've checked, it's the first time I've TASed the game, so there are a few moving mistakes in beginning part. :( 2. I've compared the part from the door of Chapel to Gladiator's room in Arena between pirate_sephiroth's and mine. Mine is about 3 seconds faster, I moved a little faster, but don't forget that he skiped the dialogue in Underground Reservoir when Soma met Yoko, I can't do that in normal mode.
I think that working in normal mode is better for a any% run, starting from SRAM (noly a NG+, hard mode is needless) is better for the all souls run, the run will be very long and dialogues are not important.
Also, pirate_sephiroth, have you made the complete route of all souls run?
Well try this instead, that's the correct, most recent version.
I really do think that Hard mode is worth it because of skipped cutscenes. There's really quite a lot of long dialogues that you skip, which should in theory more than offset the slightly higher HP's.
…Unless you skip most of them like zggzdydp did? All-souls run as a goal probably has a better opportunity to save time by using hard mode, both because you have enough time and resources to beef up until the fatter enemies, and because there's little to no way you'd be able to skip any of the cutscenes during it. I'm pretty sure hard mode won't save any time in a run as short as this.
Thanks for linking me to the WIP, though.
zggzdydp wrote:
1. I've checked, it's the first time I've TASed the game, so there are a few moving mistakes in beginning part. :(
Yeah, well, you still did very good, considering how unforgivable this game is. I'm looking forward to the submission, you're already done with half the game!
zggzdydp wrote:
2. I've compared the part from the door of Chapel to Gladiator's room in Arena between pirate_sephiroth's and mine. Mine is about 3 seconds faster, I moved a little faster, but don't forget that he skiped the dialogue in Underground Reservoir when Soma met Yoko, I can't do that in normal mode.
That's what I thought. Seems like this route is only usable for the normal mode, while pirate's is the one to take in a hard mode. Well, good to know.
zggzdydp wrote:
I think that working in normal mode is better for a any% run, starting from SRAM (noly a NG+, hard mode is needless) is better for the all souls run, the run will be very long and dialogues are not important.
I am of the opinion that hard mode is what really makes sense for all-souls run, for several reasons:
1) lack of cutscenes makes the run more fluid overall (less talking, more action), and helps keeping the length reasonable;
2) there is no way to avoid fighting massive amounts of enemies for their items and souls, so you have enough time to beef up and get better weapons on the way to counterweigh the increased HP;
3) it forces you to choose not only more and better weapons, but more and better souls, since there is no other way to kill enemies on the move without stopping to reach them or make additional thrusts (compare pirate's and arkiandruski's WIPs; note that the hard mode version is not only faster, but is also bound to demonstrate more variety, since there's no way to kill fatter enemies with low level souls).
Also, I think the all-souls run, if executed really well, won't exceed half an hour (or at least not significantly so). Most 100% runs are considerably longer than that.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
zggzdydp wrote:
Also, pirate_sephiroth, have you made the complete route of all souls run?
Like said before, it's not a simple project... I have searched for a few new shortcuts using the other soul-required glitches (sinking and windblow, for example), but nothing too serious.
Until I reach Great Armor, I won't dig too deep into it. It' will be "on-the-fly".
All I know is that I must get Black Panther as soon as I can, therefore I'll need Flame Demon, Giant Bat (gotta kill Balore!), and Succubus. Not easy...
I won't waste time thinking about it this soon...
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself.
It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the
kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional
functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success."
- Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
Hey, it might be wishful thinking, but does anyone on this forum know how to use VBARead? I'm sure it would be very useful if I could understand what it was saying. Without help, though, it just seems like random numbers to me.
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
moozooh wrote:
I've taken some time to research optimal backdashing method, and this is the result I got. The name explains the sequence:
frame #1 - backdash (+ turn around if you're facing forward)
frame #2 - jump
frame #3 - attack
#4 to #9 - [nothing]
frame #10 - press the direction you're traveling in
#11 to #15 - hold that direction
------------------------------
frame #16 - start again
Not that it's going to save a lot of time, but… who knows. Actually, I'm not too sure if it's the fastest possible sequence, but at least it's the fastest I've been able to get at the moment. The average speed achieved in the demo is 2.20833 pixels/frame.
This is what moozooh swears by.
Also, good to see you back here Yrr. Finish the any% already! :-p
arkiandruski, what can that VBAread do that normal memory watching from say Gocha's Tool can't do out of curiosity?
Well, it assigns each memory value a soul drop number, which if I knew what that meant would probably make it easier to find the right value instead of just going around randomly until a soul drops and working from there, which is what I'm doing now?
Well, it assigns each memory value a soul drop number, which if I knew what that meant would probably make it easier to find the right value instead of just going around randomly until a soul drops and working from there, which is what I'm doing now?
Well, it assigns each memory value a soul drop number, which if I knew what that meant would probably make it easier to find the right value instead of just going around randomly until a soul drops and working from there, which is what I'm doing now?
That won't work. I have already tried. Even if we knew an algorithm which determines if soul is dropped it would be kinda useless. I think that we can't avoid the good ol' brute force method.
Btw, I am about to wright a script which can simulate some key presses. So it would save a hell of work, since it could make that backdash-run itself :)
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
Yeah... it's not like this... it's true that certain numbers make certain enemies drop the souls, but apparently when every enemy is generated it receives his own set of compatible values. If a value work for one skeleton, it would fail for any other (even for the same skeleton, if you kill it and re-enter the room, because it would be a new one).
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself.
It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the
kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional
functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success."
- Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
I'm now at the high room with those blue crows and archers and already saved ~60 frames over zyggdyps' run.
Improvments were optimization, luck manipulation at creaking skull (saved ~20 frames) and a trick I found at buer (saved ~30 frames).
I'll soon post my progress, however, I won't upload many WIPs, since I try to do some new tricks and want to make the run more exciting...
Actually, I tested it, and got the same value to work for two different skeleton knights, which allowed me to skip one for another that was easier to manipulate the value.
Hello - just want to encourage the folks working on the 100% run. Looks pretty neat so far! Keep up the good work, it'll be awesome to see a finished all-souls run.
