1 2
6 7
Post subject: Gunstar Heroes
Former player
Joined: 4/8/2004
Posts: 82
Location: Majorca
I have been waiting for a time attack on this game since I first heard about them and it seems no one is doing it so I did it myself, this is a long side scrolling action game composed of 7 levels, it has a wide variety of weapons that can be used alone or mixed for better damage-speed, it also has some bare hands attacks and even a combination move just like the special moves of one on one fighting games, there's also a space shooting level where you control a ship, i finished it in 33:04, there's little room for improvements unless you play with 2 players or controlling both characters at the same time (a bit difficult for this game). Here's a link to the movie: http://usuarios.lycos.es/amstradpics/gunstar.zip (Right click --> save as or copy the url and paste it in your browser) It was made using v8 of the modified Gens by Jyzero and uses the rom that has the same name as the movie. If anyone has suggestions on how to improve the movie i'll gladly try them.
Kage bunshin no jutsu!!!
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (980)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3109
Location: Sweden
I watched it and you did some cool things I didn't know about. One possible way to speed it up is to switch to one of the single weapons for a short moment so you can shoot when objects are out of your normal range. Assuming that switching weapons can be done fast enough, of course. I haven't tested.
Former player
Joined: 4/8/2004
Posts: 82
Location: Majorca
Truncated wrote:
One possible way to speed it up is to switch to one of the single weapons for a short moment so you can shoot when objects are out of your normal range. Assuming that switching weapons can be done fast enough, of course. I haven't tested.
I did this once in the whole movie XD, is almost unnoticeable, during the first fight with Green, also there are not many enemies that need to be killed in order to advance.I'm glad you liked it, it took me a hell load of time to finish. I'm just curious, which things didn't you know about the game?, I bought it at it's release and have played it like mad since then.
Kage bunshin no jutsu!!!
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (980)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3109
Location: Sweden
Well, I am obviously not very experienced at this game. I didn't even know about the running slide. :) The strength of the laser saber weapon you used also surprised me, I have never been able to use that in any meaningful way. I didn't know about throwing the dice downward, either. You skipped some parts of the game by running past them, I didn't know you could do that.
Post subject: Gunstar Heroes 2 player expert
Reviewer, Active player (288)
Joined: 12/14/2006
Posts: 717
I really think this game needs to be run again. Since noone else seems to be doing it, I decided to try myself. Jackic's run was done in the days before frame-advance, and there are just a lot of things about the run that don't seem right to me. The run I'm doing might be slower because it's expert and Jackic's is normal, also going through the options menu takes more time. My plans so far: Player 1: free force shot Player 2: fixed fire Use player 2 to move the screen while player 1 kills enemies (eye candy) Give player 1 double force and player 2 fire chaser for papaya dance. Switch player 2 to lightning saber after bravoo man for pink battle. I'll post a wip after I beat papaya dance, but are there any other suggestions.
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
Nitsuja had some plans on running the game in this mode, so you might want to contact him for help and/or suggestions, etc. But I agree that it must be done, GH is a very good game, and it deserves a fascinating run.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Reviewer, Active player (288)
Joined: 12/14/2006
Posts: 717
Those look good. I'll keep them in mind.
Joined: 12/26/2006
Posts: 256
Location: United States of America
I second the notion that Gunstar Heroes would make a very good game to TAS. I don't know what the difference is between normal and expert difficulties, but with two players, wouldn't you be able to take down the bosses quicker, saving time over the 1-player run? Also, using two players would give a lot more entertainment value to the run, instead of having only one player on the screen sliding around all of the time...
Joined: 12/20/2004
Posts: 226
Thank you! Someone is finally going to obsolete Jackic's outdated TAS (sorry Jackic, but it is an old run with some very basic errors). Unfortunately, I only have a couple of suggestions on how to make the run more entertaining. However, I feel entertainment is very important for a run like this because there are a lot of auto-scrolling sections and the the game has a ton of move variety in 2-player mode. Have the characters roughhousing each other during waiting times. Throw each other around a bit, I'm sure you can come up with some entertaining throwing tricks with TAS tools. Maybe play tag with the other player using the flame chaser? Write stuff with flame chaser, you can even use the flame+lightning to make i's, and then use the flame chaser to dot them. Or use the flame+lightning as one part of a T, then use the flame chaser to fill out the other part. During the shmup stage, assign whoever is using the flame chaser as the pilot. I don't know if that would actually be entertaining, but it would amuse me since it's impossible to use the flame chaser and fly simultaneously on a console. I'll admit these are basic ideas, but I want to make sure you have some creativity when making this run. This has the potential to be one of the most entertaining 2-player runs on tasvideos IMO.
Reviewer, Active player (288)
Joined: 12/14/2006
Posts: 717
I like those ideas. Especially writing with the flame chaser. If it can be done, I'll do it. (There needs to be more writing in TASes, I say)
Experienced player (829)
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
I love this idea, I had this game as a kid and it caught my eye for a possible game to do, but Vectorman grabbed me and won't let go. I can't wait to see a good and entertaining WIP!
Living Well Is The Best Revenge My Personal Page
Twisted_Eye
He/Him
Active player (410)
Joined: 10/17/2005
Posts: 637
Location: Seattle, WA
What the heck, I JUST had this exact idea last week when I watched the movie, though I didn't ever actually get started. So you sir, rock on, I'm looking forward to it for sure One of my thoughts on the entertainment aspect were to have one or both of the characters switch weapons on occasion, just to give the viewers something different to watch for a little while, and then pop right back to the strongest weapon combination for boss fights. Showing all, what, 20 combinations? during the movie would be a cool achievement. Don't forget to switch to the single guns, especially when whomever uses the laser can't reach the opponent, namely a couple fights in the Dice Maze, I believe.
Reviewer, Active player (288)
Joined: 12/14/2006
Posts: 717
I seem to be having trouble pushing up on player 2 and down on player 1 at the same time. Remapping the keys doesn't work. Any suggestions?
upthorn
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Active player (392)
Joined: 3/24/2006
Posts: 1802
use the autohold feature.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
Reviewer, Active player (288)
Joined: 12/14/2006
Posts: 717
What if I only have to do it for one frame?
upthorn
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Active player (392)
Joined: 3/24/2006
Posts: 1802
Then turn it off after that frame. It's kind of a pain, but until I'm done with the next version of Gens (which will have multitrack), it's that, or not be able to do stuff.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
Reviewer, Active player (288)
Joined: 12/14/2006
Posts: 717
My previous post was eaten, so let's see if I can remember what I wrote. Expert has more enemies. More vitality on bosses, and weapons do less damage. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/4600/arkiandruski-gunstar.gmv This is my first run-through. I didn't test other weapons. If you think they might be faster, tell me. Any other suggestions would be welcome.
emu
Active player (386)
Joined: 1/2/2007
Posts: 188
Location: Germany, Munich
^^ I was thinking of tasing this one, too, but since my laptop can't handle enough keys for a two player run and that I'm still busy with Dynamite Headdy stopped me from doing this. Here are some infos, if they are useful: Attacks: For expert mode the most damaging attacks are: fire+chaser,fire+lightning, force+force, slide and jump-attack with 4 damage per frame followed by lightning+lighning and force+lightning with 3 points per frame. I didn't test throwing, but usually it does a lot of damage, but since iirc the recovery time for the enemy to get up is very long it should only be used as a finisher. I forgot to check throwing the partner into the enemy. This could be a great damager, too. Movement: velocity adresses: Player1: x-velocity: 00FFA419, y-v.: 00FFA41D Player2: x-v.: 00FFA619, y-v.: 00FFA61D I just did one test over 150 frames, but it might be possible, that jump attacks are a faster form of movement than super slides. But I'm not very sure about it. I think, it will end up doing both to avoid enemies on the ground or in the air, since they slow you down a lot. I don't have enough experience with this game, but still I'm not very happy with the fixed shot idea. The snake moves autonomous for some frames after giving a direction, so you could wait for that moment, giving you the ability to move at least a little. Example: You move to the right-> snake goes right, hitting the enemy. Than you tap left, making the snake go left (hitting the enemy), while you stand, than you walk right again, etc. (sorry, hard to explain:) ) Lags: Dynamite Headdy (also from treasure) lags a lot, so with all these enemies on the screen and being an earlier game, it might be possible that you will have to check for lags more often. Especially when deciding, if you kill an enemy (explosion), or not (more enemies on screen). Difficulty: I just start this discussion, because now it would be easier to restart the run. Why doing the run on normal-difficulty: -it's faster -the run, which would be obsoleted was also played on normal -combat attacks are much more damaging compared to weapons (jump- or slide attack 10p/frame, fire+chaser 6p/frame, fire+lightning 5p/frame) -> more variety hard-difficulty: -the lowest/fastest difficulty with all seven forces expert: -tases are usually played on the hardest settings -iirc the speedrun on SRD is also played on expert your run so far: I like it :) This is a well known game, so maybe expectations are high. Plus it is a 2 player run, which adds to difficulty. I'm really looking forward to it and wish you the very best. Good luck!
adelikat
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player (3578)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4754
Location: Tennessee
I am looking forward to this run. I think this game has a lot of potential that wasn't taken advantage of in the current run. Good luck.
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
emu wrote:
combat attacks are much more damaging compared to weapons (jump- or slide attack 10p/frame, fire+chaser 6p/frame, fire+lightning 5p/frame) -> more variety
Actually, less variety. If one attack does more damage, it will be used predominantly to save time. When many attacks do the same amount of damage, the author can use any of them (more variety!) and not lose time. I think it's good. And yeah, I'm very excited about this run as well. I see you're being thorough (the number of rerecords exceeding frame count already in the beginning of the run says much) with it and keeping both characters busy with different things, so keep up the good work! I added it to the list of movies I'm looking forward to. :)
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
upthorn
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Active player (392)
Joined: 3/24/2006
Posts: 1802
arkiandruski wrote:
This is my first run-through. I didn't test other weapons. If you think they might be faster, tell me.
I believe that fire-fire is the most damaging weapon, but as has already been mentioned, hand to hand combat does more damage, and I believe throwing one of the players at an enemy does even more damage than that. Only other suggestion is that it might be fun if you use multiple different weapons on nonboss enemies.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
Reviewer, Active player (288)
Joined: 12/14/2006
Posts: 717
Watching horizontal velocity helps. Super slides reach a higher maximum speed than jump attacks. However, super slides slow down a lot sooner than the jump attacks. The result is jump attacks are slightly faster than super slides, especially if you jump from a really high place. However, the faster way of traveling is being thrown. The disadvantage of that, though is the other player has to stop in order to throw you. Fire-fire, although strong, is not the most damaging. It only causes three damage at a time as opposed to fire-chaser which does four. However, I'm not sure if I can reproduce these results with the fire-chaser. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/4610/arkiandruski-gunstar-fire-fire.gmv
emu
Active player (386)
Joined: 1/2/2007
Posts: 188
Location: Germany, Munich
Confirmation: Yes, fire+fire does only 3 points damage per frame. Bad News: Please don't kill me, if I say that, but I'm starting to doubt, that this should be a 2-player run :( I checked on the papaya-thingy-boss in the movie and not only does it receive the same damage (4 p/frame, I assume that only one weapon at a time can harm an enemy) as attacked with a single player, there also was a lag every third frame (in the boss fight, the level itself scrolled smoothly as far as I checked). However, I don't know, if this is only at this boss. But if no boss takes addition damage, the main reason to do the tas in 2 player mode doesn't exist anymore. The only use the second player will have is destroying more normal enemies (which is not that important, since they respawn infinitesimally) and for throwing the partner. That means that with significantly more work there would not be much time saved, in the worst case, it is even longer due to lag. But maybe I'm wrong. I only saw that first mid boss.
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
I say this still should be 2-players. They create so much chaos on the screen that's really awesome, who cares if the half an hour long run will be longer by 10-15 seconds because of that?
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
upthorn
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Active player (392)
Joined: 3/24/2006
Posts: 1802
emu wrote:
Bad News: Please don't kill me, if I say that, but I'm starting to doubt, that this should be a 2-player run :( I checked on the papaya-thingy-boss in the movie and not only does it receive the same damage (4 p/frame, I assume that only one weapon at a time can harm an enemy) as attacked with a single player, there also was a lag every third frame (in the boss fight, the level itself scrolled smoothly as far as I checked). However, I don't know, if this is only at this boss. But if no boss takes addition damage, the main reason to do the tas in 2 player mode doesn't exist anymore. The only use the second player will have is destroying more normal enemies (which is not that important, since they respawn infinitesimally) and for throwing the partner. That means that with significantly more work there would not be much time saved, in the worst case, it is even longer due to lag. But maybe I'm wrong. I only saw that first mid boss.
Usually the primary reason for using 2P on a run is entertainment, rather than speed. Even so, as previously stated, most bosses take damage from a player being thrown at them, and this damage is higher than any weapon damage though it cannot be done as often. Furthermore, a 2P run can throw one player up high and then have the 2nd player commit suicide in order to speed up vertical scrolling.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
1 2
6 7