Post by Paused

Posted: 1/8/2016 8:24 PM

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Paused

Joined: 5/9/2005
Posts: 752

Lil_Gecko wrote:

By pure dumb luck, Yans have an Ore as a common item to steal. So the strategy of stealing 3 Ores per fight while leveling our 4 characters and increase our Ores count to improve Zantetsuken odds might be the way to go.

Great, that's a cool little twist to the grinding process, helpful too. Whilst Quina will mostly be busy with Night, are there any situations if you have the Blue magics, Mustard Bomb or Frost for Heat and Freeze respectively useful? Very early on would Eating a Yan be faster whilst your hits are weaker? Or any of the other insta-death moves? Steiner, Vivi and Amarant (with add Status) all have one iirc? As for who switches out for Garnet, I guess that depends on who you plan on taking out Quale and the last Blue Magic mobs with (not to mention those super dangerous Serpions for Dragon Crest), and what equips they need so you don't have to repeat the issue with the Pearl Rouge. (On the topic of last fights , you sure Hades gives exp? Looked in my old guide book I had back in the day and it says it's a big 0exp. Course it would surprise me at all if it was wrong, but thought I'd check.)

Posted: 1/8/2016 10:31 PM

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Lil_Gecko

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Paused wrote:

Whilst Quina will mostly be busy with Night, are there any situations if you have the Blue magics, Mustard Bomb or Frost for Heat and Freeze respectively useful? Very early on would Eating a Yan be faster whilst your hits are weaker?

No, eating Yans won't be any faster early on, as I would have to attack them physically to get them under the right amount of HP and that would trigger a costly counter. However, and I completely overlooked that, it seems that they are indeed vulnerable to heat. While Frost can only be gotten in Memoria/Crystal World in a Perfect Game, Mustard Bomb can be obtain from Bombs around Alexandria. Problem is I would need to do Night, Mustard Bomb, Night. Pretty sure they would wake up in between and attack. Haven't tried it yet, I'll keep you posted as soon as I do.

Paused wrote:

Or any of the other insta-death moves? Steiner, Vivi and Amarant (with add Status) all have one iirc?

I got the Avenger in Daguerreo for Amarant. He will use it. Vivi hasn't learned Death yet. He will need to level up quite a few before being able to use it. Same for Steiner. Iai Strike isn't learned yet. Levelling up to do first.

Paused wrote:

(On the topic of last fights , you sure Hades gives exp? Looked in my old guide book I had back in the day and it says it's a big 0exp. Course it would surprise me at all if it was wrong, but thought I'd check.)

Yep, I double checked. Hades gives 65535 EXP. But thanks again for suggesting Heat. Would have been really pissed to spend ages levelling up to find ou there is a quicker way.

Posted: 1/13/2016 9:37 AM

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Lil_Gecko

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Yep, Mustard Bomb works like a charm. Saved a whole minute in the first fight against 2 Yans. - As MP Attack isn't used, no more worries about the Ether count. - Yans counter the Mustard Bomb, but since it will always work, it's an instant-kill. Unfortunately, since it's the counter that kills them, we can't steal in between. - We can't do Night/Mustard Bomb/Night. So each Yan not targetted will attack. Luckily they mostly use Comet. The frame rule for Yans' attack is only 50 frames compare to the usual 100-120, so manipulating Comet to miss doesn't take twice as long. EDIT : It's a really few frames close but it is sometimes possible to do Night/Mustard Bomb twice before they wake up. Which means I can slip a Steal in between. However, against 3 Yans, we have to face more attacks from them, so it's only 20-25 seconds faster but still.

Posted: 1/14/2016 7:32 AM

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Lil_Gecko

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I stand corrected. Mustard Bomb + 2 Steals is actually way closer to Charge ! + 3 Steals than I expected. Link to video Also chance of inflicting Heat with Mustard Bomb is 39/256. EDIT : Yay for 3 millions frames !

Posted: 1/14/2016 8:48 PM

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Lil_Gecko

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Hmmm. Steiner's Iai Strike is supposed to have 30% chance of OHKO ennemies, however after about 100 tries I haven't killed a single Yan. Is there something else at play in the formula ? If somebody could take a look I'd really appreciate.

Posted: 1/14/2016 9:22 PM

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Chanoyu

Joined: 1/14/2016
Posts: 100

If your Steiner is still level 27, I'd guess the formula comes down to 0% in the end, just like using Odin. The formula: Chance = Status Accuracy + Lvl + [Mag / 4] - Target Level. So 30+27+mag/4-72 would be the chance to hit, andd depending on Steiner's Magic, it might be zero.

Posted: 1/14/2016 10:24 PM

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Lil_Gecko

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Chanoyu wrote:

If your Steiner is still level 27, I'd guess the formula comes down to 0% in the end, just like using Odin. The formula: Chance = Status Accuracy + Lvl + [Mag / 4] - Target Level. So 30+27+mag/4-72 would be the chance to hit, andd depending on Steiner's Magic, it might be zero.

I had the idea of fighting 3 Yans twice, so Steiner gets enough HP to survive a Virus Powder attack, and gets AP with no EXP, so he'll be able to use and learn Iai Strike while the others level up. However at that point his level is 32 and Mag is 28. So yeah according to your formula it gives 0% which seems to be the case. I guess I have to level him up once or twice more to have a few % Thanks !

Posted: 1/15/2016 9:21 PM

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Chanoyu

Joined: 1/14/2016
Posts: 100

Attacks with Added Status do not have such a target level modifier (simple base chance, that's it), and Amarant's Avenger's Death (15%) may be useful, and maybe Freya's Ice Lance's Freeze (10%). Info comes from the Battle mechanics FAQ.

Posted: 1/16/2016 12:13 AM

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Paused

Joined: 5/9/2005
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I do not know why after mentioning both Freeze/Heat blue magic and Add Status effects on weapons, I didn't think of Weapons with those effects. On top of Freya's Ice Lance that Chanoyu mentioned, of course Steiner has the Ice Brand and Flame Sabre. (actually while typing this I realised he probably didn't mention them as of the whole stat bonus thing, so Steiners swords are of limited use till max level or Virused.) Chanoyus mention of Freeze also made me think of something else; with your need to max your steals, will Mug both shatter a frozen enemy and add to your Thievery total? And also while on the topic of add status; Vivi, and Zidane when he doesn't need Masamune equiped, both can inflict Trouble which may save time? Dunno if Trouble damage wakes up Yans. Also Quina, and again Zidane after he doesn't need stats, can both add sleep on hit, which I assume would be helpful during the 'Charge!' strategy. Of course not sure if you have the Frogs to have Quinas Bistro Fork. ( Minor Edit; Oh, think you have it equipped actually.) Anyway, nice to hear Mustard Bomb has some use; even if it's not a huge time save like predicted.

Posted: 1/16/2016 8:06 AM

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Lil_Gecko

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Thanks guys ! I actually thought of Add Status when thinking Heat from Steiner was faster than Iai Strike OHKO. Didn't have time to test because of work and didn't even think of Freeze from Freya (facepalm)... It's now tested and... IT'S ONE MINUTE FASTER !!!! Cuts time in half. Link to video Unfortunately no, Mug doesn't work, but it was a nice idea.

Posted: 1/16/2016 8:38 AM

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Zanoab

Joined: 12/31/2009
Posts: 174

That battle went ridiculously fast! I almost asked if giving Freya a different spear would've affected her stat gains but then I remembered Freya doesn't have any stat boosting weapons. I noticed you've been using Freya, Quina, and Steiner in your tests. Do you plan on changing your initial Yan grinding party once you figure out the best party combinations (and order)?

Posted: 1/16/2016 9:22 AM

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Lil_Gecko

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That's why I post here, because I need your ideas. My first thoughts are : Zidane is mandatory if I'm not wrong. Quina's Night to avoid counters and get multiple turns seems to be also mandatory. I'll be rotating the 6 others. 1) Freya for Freeze and Steiner who will Heat when he can. It's the first 2 because I needed them for Ozma after Memoria and Dagger needs more Ores to start with. Also Steiner is faster than Vivi and Eiko to kill Frozen ennemies. 2) Dagger for Odin and Vivi who will Death when he can. 3) Amarant for Death and Eiko. Also when Zidane and Quina will reach a certain level (not calculated yet) they'll get Virused so the others level up faster and then cured when Amarant and Eiko will have caught up. ? EDIT : Wow... That just happened : Link to video

Posted: 1/16/2016 1:36 PM

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Chanoyu

Joined: 1/14/2016
Posts: 100

I think Odin hits all enemies, so 1) you wouldn't need Vivi's Death, and you can switch him with Eiko; and 2) you wouldn't need Quina. If this is right, I'd suggest figuring out how fast you can get Odin'd battles to go by. Then, if it's the fastest (the animation takes 30 seconds so I'd think so), you should probably switch her in as soon as its feasible for her to end the battle with one summoning. That's 99 ores, and then she needs at least level 20 ([99/2]{ores}-72{Yan's level}=23, I don't know her magic stat). You know how difficult it is to get lucky, and how much % you need to realistically get the OHKO. So, keeping the battles up as you do now, until you hit 99 ores, you need to fight at least one battle (without virus'd or dead people) to get Garnet to level 24. (exp needed is 30,786, 3*Yan gives 32k to 4 people). The first party to get leveled should beat this asap then. There are two spots taken by Zidane and Garnet, two spots are left. Freya's Freeze, Amarant's Death and Quina's Sleep are the important options (Vivi's Death has no chance of hitting yet). Quina is the safe option, but Freya and Amarant might be faster. I see in the Monster List Yans can cast snort, which could be useful: more experience to Garnet after the battle, I think. If this works, it's Zidane and Garnet all the way, and switching members three times. Use Virus Powder on Zidane and Garnet to regulate which members get faster experience and thus less AP. Alternatively, if Freya Freezing/Amarant Deathing/Steiner Heating/Zidane shattering is the fastest, it might be worth it to safe Freya's and Amarant's leveling for last, and have a slower start with Garnet.

Posted: 1/26/2016 12:04 AM

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Mantidactyle

Joined: 4/2/2014
Posts: 32

Chanoyu wrote:

I see in the Monster List Yans can cast snort, which could be useful: more experience to Garnet after the battle, I think.

If you need extra exp on one character, suicide is faster than having a Yan snorting them. Nevertheless, here's the script; Yan use Snort as a counter 25% of the time. From Hades Workshop (edited the variable values to actual attacks and statuses):

Function Yan_Counter
    if ( #Matching(SV_FunctionEnemy[STATUS_CURRENT_B], MINI) ) {
        set SV_FunctionEnemy[56] =$ 1
        set SV_FunctionEnemy[MODEL_SIZE] =$ 4096
    } else {
        set SV_FunctionEnemy[56] =$ 1
        set SV_FunctionEnemy[MODEL_SIZE] =$ 8192
    }
    if ( ( GetAttackCommandId == SKILL ) && ( GetAttackId == WHAT'S THAT!? ) ) {
        return
    }
    // 25% Snort
    if ( !( GetRandom & 3 ) ) {
        if ( ( #NotMatching(SV_PlayerTeam[STATUS_CURRENT_A], PETRIFY | VENOM | DEATH | STOP) ) <= 1 ) {
            return
        }
        set #( SV_Target = Matching(SV_PlayerTeam[STATUS_CURRENT_B], DOOM) )
        set #( SV_Target |= Matching(SV_PlayerTeam[STATUS_CURRENT_B], GRADUAL PETRIFY) )
        set #( SV_Target |= Matching(SV_PlayerTeam[STATUS_CURRENT_A], POISON) )
        set #( SV_Target |= Matching(SV_PlayerTeam[STATUS_CURRENT_A], VENOM) )
        set #( SV_Target |= ( ( Matching(SV_PlayerTeam[STATUS_CURRENT_A], REGEN) | Matching(SV_PlayerTeam[STATUS_AUTO_A], REGEN) ) & Matching(SV_PlayerTeam[STATUS_CURRENT_A], ZOMBIE) ) )
        if ( #SV_Target ) {
            return
        }
        set #( SV_Target = GetAttacker )
        Attack( SNORT )
        return
    }
    // 75% Aera or Float
    set #( SV_Target = GetAttacker )
    if ( #SV_Target ) {
        // If attaker has Float status, counter with Aera
        if ( #Matching(SV_Target[STATUS_CURRENT_A], FLOAT) ) {
            Attack( AERA )
        // Else, cast Float
        } else {
            Attack( FLOAT )
        }
    }
    return

alt: Froggy25

Posted: 1/26/2016 12:52 PM

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Lil_Gecko

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So... I actually have 7 minutes to kill between reaching Vile Island where the Yans are and Lamar's Qu's Marsh being fully repopulated with no tadpoles. I could do some other stuff and get back to the Marsh later but I want it to start regrowing as soon as possible as it takes half the time to regrow compare to the last Marsh above. (12 minutes need to pass for something to happen, compare to 25 minutes in the other.) Back to those 7 minutes. I used them to fight some Yans with my actual party. It allows me to steal 3 Ores each time, plus gives about 10K Gils. 5 fights later I'm right on time for the Frog catching with 15 more Ores and 50K Gils with Gecko and Quina under Virus Status. Then back to the Invicible to switch Steiner and Freya for Amarant and Dagger, and continuing the beaches healing tour. Little Pit stop in Lindblum for Cotton Robe trick and buying some items. Then card game against Card Freak Gon to upgrade our weakest cards. That is where I am right now. For those curious here is how my deck looks like after 100 games : Link to video

Posted: 1/28/2016 3:14 AM

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Paused

Joined: 5/9/2005
Posts: 752

Oh that is a nice consequence to the route. Yan grinding is going to be long of course... having any kind of break in between it will be somewhat refreshing. Nice deck. I assume you've doubled and tripled check all your arrow combinations are unique right? I'd be paranoid as hell about that upon grabbing 100 cards! Funny to me a gil grinding trick in disc1 is still a useful strat this late in.

Posted: 1/28/2016 1:33 PM

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Lil_Gecko

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Paused wrote:

Oh that is a nice consequence to the route. Yan grinding is going to be long of course... having any kind of break in between it will be somewhat refreshing. Nice deck. I assume you've doubled and tripled check all your arrow combinations are unique right? I'd be paranoid as hell about that upon grabbing 100 cards! Funny to me a gil grinding trick in disc1 is still a useful strat this late in.

Haven't made up my mind yet but I might consider a Speed/Entertainment tradeoff to break the routine of the Yans griding by doing Frogs or other stuff inbetween. Every arrow combination has actually a number refering to it. I had an Excel sheet with every numbers so everytime I started a game I looked up the number of the card I wanted with my sheet. Of course and it wouldn't be fun without it, my lua script has derped 2/3 times and gave me the wrong number so I had to redo a few games because of that and a little bit of hex-editing. But now that I have my 100 cards, I've cheated an A rank on every single one and got 1700 points which means we're good to go. Even funnier than the cotton robe trick is the fact that I lost a bit of time in my first games of Chocobo Hot and Cold to dig up Extra Rare Items (1/1024 odds, Cachusha, Extension, Barette,...) and selling them right now for a good amount gave me just enough gils to purchase everything I need (alongside with the 50K from the Yans so it was definitely necessary) Continuing my beaches tour, I'll make a stop before the forest leading to Black Magic Village to fight a Cactuar and get the Blue Magic "1000 needles", then go to the Village and synthesize the last items for my inventory. Would miss only the Duel Claws from Deathguise then. I won't have the Tin Armor as I prefer keeping the Hammer for the extended End FMV. EDIT: Oh and I have upgrade the cards of the Thug in Treno as you requested :)

Posted: 1/30/2016 2:49 PM

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Lil_Gecko

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Posts: 520

Gotta go fast : Link to video

Posted: 1/30/2016 9:31 PM

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solarplex

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Joined: 2/1/2014
Posts: 928

Hahah that was great!

Posted: 2/6/2016 11:50 PM

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Paused

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Posts: 752

I was trying to google the short animation for Odin to no avail when the strat was first brought up. I knew it would be faster... but not that quick! Will most Odin fights include a quick steal before the summon? I forget if that triggers a counter. edit;

Lil_Gecko wrote:

EDIT: Oh and I have upgrade the cards of the Thug in Treno as you requested :)

Oh right! Took me a moment to recall what you were referring too. Ha, nice. Another thing ticked off the list of incredibly obscure things you can do in FF9!

Posted: 3/31/2016 5:28 PM

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Lil_Gecko

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Posts: 520

As you have probably noticed by the lack of update, I've put the 100% TAS on hold for now. This has to do with the fact that I recently noticed I forgot to buy one javelin back at the 2h mark and ended up on Disc 4 with only 2 instead of 3 ("the perfect amount"). So I have to hex-edit 12 hours... This is a slow process and I'm back to 8 hours before deciding to take a break. In the meantime to keep me busy, I have restarted the any% TAS on Bizhawk and besides the fact that I am 2 minutes 20ish behind the published run after Black Waltz 1, it's only because of more accurate loading times and I estimate the time saved in gameplay to be 14-15 seconds. Now if you have any new tricks or improvments, that would be a great time to say so :)

Posted: 4/1/2016 4:50 PM

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Mantidactyle

Joined: 4/2/2014
Posts: 32

Don't forget the 0 Mistodon encounter on Iifa's root :P

alt: Froggy25

Posted: 4/13/2016 8:44 AM

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Lil_Gecko

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Posts: 520

Finished Disc 1 of the any% on Bizhawk. As I feared, longer loading times are piling up. New time on Bizhawk : 2h14min Published run : 2h07min Segmented WR : 2h12min. I'm still searching for a memory adress that change when the game is loading so I could make an accurate comparison but I estimate the time actually saved to be around 15 seconds.

Posted: 4/14/2016 11:32 AM

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