Joined: 12/2/2005
Posts: 139
Location: New York, United States
Wren wrote:
Wouter Jansen wrote:
pS: I'll keep bringing it up until you or show enough proof, or admit that you were lying. Be man enough to take the consequences of your own actions.
Take it somewhere else then. It's not constructive at all and you are just being an immature ass. He claims 50 seconds and admits he can't prove it. What info he has given you you claim isn't enough. Fine. He can't persuade you any more without proof he doesnt have.
Drop it. He can't prove it; so the current record stands. Simple as that.
Making unverified claims like that is still very rude seeing as how a lot of people put huge amounts of efforts into getting these times and when someone nonchalantly says they have beaten the best anyone has ever done by a significant margin without any proof, they tend to get a little insulted. Just because you may think it's not a big deal doesn't change that.
What's a man like me supposed to do with all this extra savoir-faire?
I was part of the-elite. I left because of all the high strung people there and I do not like being associated with them any longer. I believe what people tell me when they have proof and I either do not care, or do not press a point, when they can not prove their claims.
There's no reason to act rude to a person who claims a better time. The least you could do is TRY NEW THINGS and see if getting a better time is possible.
I'm sure I could annoy at least one or two of you with my claims of a World Record time (it was last I knew anyway... I haven't kept up in KH2 affairs in a long while) in a minigame in Kingdom Hearts 2. I have a time of 00'40"43 as Roxas in Poster Duty... and I have NO WAY to prove my claims.
Things like that happen. The best thing to do is just ask a few questions and not call him a liar and demand proof. He told you enough and, assuming he isn't a liar, then that should be enough. I was informed by a guy who has a time of 00'38 something. I never got an answer from him on how to do that, but it's a goal I strive for. Just like 50 should now be your goal over at The Elite.
<i>A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.</i>
Joined: 8/9/2004
Posts: 139
Location: Washington State
Wouter is not the one at fault in this "don't be an ass, business", I've learned from the Metroid 2002 forums you just don't open your mouth without at least upping a video. It's common courtesy and the ONLY way you get recognition.
Is anyone making an avi for the surface and bunker. I'm not responding to this conversation over the Dam anymore and I've said enough to make it sound like its not impossible.
The only tip for surface is to use the grenade launcher for strafe boosting, I liked the shot to the vent shaft at the end. For bunker I think you can duck under the door at the start.
Joined: 10/31/2005
Posts: 329
Location: The Netherlands
obviously it was a fake claim if you drop it so easily. I have enough counterarguments which I've already given, to show all what he told us for new strats doesn't save you 3 seconds. the new goal would be to keep annoying the hell out of everyone who is annoyed by discussion like this here, because you just have to accept that the whole group of us actually have a very good knowledge of the game, so you can't just tell us some strats and be done with that. the strats will have to save enough time for the claimed time to be possible, plus when that is the case, we can try it out, but since he doesn't give any clear details on how to get through without presing the button, we can't even test his honesty. it would be pointless for us to find out how to do it ourselves, when we know that there's a good fat chance the guy is lying (MANY have). now THAT is what is rediculous, why people feel the need to lie. and even though you may prefer being assocviated with liars, doesn't mean you have much of a say in our discussion. and this discussion DOES belong here, because it can eventually lead to a faster dam time, because if it works, it would also save time on 00.
oh, and calling me an immature ass, shows more about what you are instead.
and even though you may prefer being assocviated with liars, doesn't mean you have much of a say in our discussion. and this discussion DOES belong here, because it can eventually lead to a faster dam time, because if it works, it would also save time on 00.
oh, and calling me an immature ass, shows more about what you are instead.
I do not associate with, or support, liars. I'm just not an immature ass and I give people the benefit of the doubt. Something you are clearly incapable of doing, for some reason.
The way I see it you, and the rest of The Elite, should get off your high horse and just go try some new things. The great thing about world record times is you have to try new things to beat them. For a while people thought the Poster Duty best possible time was around 55 seconds... a friend and myself found a way to improve it by 15 seconds.
I honestly do not see why there is a big deal about this. Sure, it's a competitive sport... but when a person in track beats a world record, or a personal best, you don't get a mob of people going "well, unless you can tell us how he ran faster than us I'm just gonna call him a big fat steroids abusing liar! So there!"
Grow up.
<i>A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.</i>
I didn't say they claimed to have beaten the record. I said when a record IS beaten.
My point was that when a record is broke people ask for proof. This was done. Then you recieved an answer... you instantly dismissed it and called him a liar.
For a record in sports to be broken, for a long time (maybe even still today), all you needed was a "witness" to your accomplishment. Hardly proof if you ask me... but it WAS, and maybe even still is, accepted.
<i>A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.</i>
To the Dam discussion for a moment. You guys have to understand that GE has been played to an amazing extent over the past 9 years. Dam Agent is the very first stage, and as such it's played even more than many of the other stages. Trying new things has been done to death. To give you and idea of how much time people at t-e.n are willing to put into a stage:
Dam 53 is the current WR on Dam Agent. It is tied by 6 people. Of those 6 people, that I know of, one spent over 100 hours to take his time from 54 to 53. One spend about 24 hours to do it. Two others spent 20+ hours to do it. The other two, I don't know how long it took.
So if t-e.n members seem a little defensive about people claiming lower, I think you can see why. The top players know these stages like you wouldn't believe.
There's no reason to act rude to a person who claims a better time. The least you could do is TRY NEW THINGS and see if getting a better time is possible.
Of course "new" things have been tried on Dam. Timing cinemas to manuiplate guards? Yes, doesn't get you a faster gate. Shooting in various places? Yes, doesn't get you a faster gate. Using lookdown all the way through the initial portion of the stage actually results in a slower gate opening. What do you suggest that we try?
AKA popped in here, claimed a time 3 seconds lower than an absurdly difficult world record to achieve. When someone rightly called him on it and asked how it was done, he says a guard opened the gate.
the guard on the other side can be manipulated to open the gate from the other and more importantly from far away
Okay. That's been tried before. Nobody else has gotten it to work. So how did AKA get it to work? He hasn't answered. Instead he offered a story of how he couldn't believe 50 was possible in back in 2000 and then found out about damage boosts(which has been known since the game came out), lookdown(lookdown wasn't discovered until well after 2000 by the way), and finally the mysterious guard(who convienently only opens the gate on very rare occasions for unknown reasons).
He also mentioned maximizing damage boosts.
2. There was three damage boosts that could of been had
Damage boosts don't happen very much on Dam Agent. The guards are just too inaccurate at that difficulty. Players usually hope for 1 when going for 53. 2 boost runs sometime happen, but very rarely. Remember, this is over a period of 20+ hours playing. AKA is talking about getting 3 more damage boosts than the run on SDA(which has either 1 or 2 boosts I believe). That's a 4 or 5 boost run. That doesn't happen. It just doesn't. You'd have to play thousands of hours to get that kind of run and even then it's doubtful.
So lets consider the increadibly unlikely chance of getting a 4 or 5 boost run. Pair that with AKA statement that the guard only opens the gate on rare occasions(must be very rare seeing how nobody else has ever done it). Think something might be just a little suspect there?
Oh, and one final quote from AKA:
and more importantly he's in a perfect postion to give constand damage boosts as well as the alarm guard
I'll note that the very first guard you see in Dam Agent is also in perfect position to give damage boosts. Sometimes you can get 1 boost out of him. Never 2 boosts. Usually no boosts.
Just to say couple of things.
There are people who don't play games for like 20 hours a day 7 days a week but something like couple of hours a day and maybe 3 days a week. And they're extremely good at playing the game and would beat the world records clearly if they would know about those. My point is that some people are talented in some games naturally.
I have personal experience in this, one of my friend was ( maybe still is) extremely skillful in Metal Gear Solid. He could beat it easily with no problems while chatting with me in two hours.
I don't know about AKA's situation, but it could be true what he is saying.
Joined: 10/31/2005
Posts: 329
Location: The Netherlands
'and more importantly he's in a perfect postion to give constand damage boosts as well as the alarm guard'
shows the total LACK of knowledge of the game, because the guard that opens the gate does NOTHING BUT WALK until he's at his spot.
The alarm guard is a vague description, if he means the one running for the alarm, he's way behind you when he even starts going for you (when he runs his focus is entirely on setting off the alarm), and he's never been known to even boost once.
I'm not immature just because I have more knowledge than you ever will have in this game. I may be arrogant because I like to put it in your face like I do now. shove, shove.
a new person comes along, claims dam agent in 10 seconds, OUCH NOW WE ALL HAVE TO TRY AND GET 10 SECONDS WITHOUT HIM TELLING HIS STRATEGY IN SUCH A WAY WE CAN ACTUALLY VERIFY THAT IT WORKS NO MATTER IF IT KILLS US!!!!!
omg, would I ever lose sleep over people like that.
For the record, as Silent Thunder just said in more detail, AKA didn't show enough evidence to make us believe.
'Then you recieved an answer... you instantly dismissed it and called him a liar.'
Please quote me where I call him a liar. I asked for better explanations, you just put words in my mouth and call me immature.
'and more importantly he's in a perfect postion to give constand damage boosts as well as the alarm guard'
shows the total LACK of knowledge of the game, because the guard that opens the gate does NOTHING BUT WALK until he's at his spot.
The alarm guard is a vague description, if he means the one running for the alarm, he's way behind you when he even starts going for you (when he runs his focus is entirely on setting off the alarm), and he's never been known to even boost once.
I'm not immature just because I have more knowledge than you ever will have in this game. I may be arrogant because I like to put it in your face like I do now. shove, shove.
a new person comes along, claims dam agent in 10 seconds, OUCH NOW WE ALL HAVE TO TRY AND GET 10 SECONDS WITHOUT HIM TELLING HIS STRATEGY IN SUCH A WAY WE CAN ACTUALLY VERIFY THAT IT WORKS NO MATTER IF IT KILLS US!!!!!
omg, would I ever lose sleep over people like that.
For the record, as Silent Thunder just said in more detail, AKA didn't show enough evidence to make us believe.
'Then you recieved an answer... you instantly dismissed it and called him a liar.'
Please quote me where I call him a liar. I asked for better explanations, you just put words in my mouth and call me immature.
Ok.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
She also gives you a lap dance if you plug in controller 2 and sit on it.
Anyway, how 'bout if we keep working on the game instead of arguing about stuff? Nothing's getting discovered by arguing. o_o;
Joined: 10/31/2005
Posts: 329
Location: The Netherlands
I know that, but like I said:
'and this discussion DOES belong here, because it can eventually lead to a faster dam time, because if it works, it would also save time on 00.'
This "discussion" (bickering over the world record time) belongs at a console-running website, or this elite.net thing. TASvideos is about making entertaining videos, not petty competitive "shoving".
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Joined: 7/29/2004
Posts: 136
Location: Temple City, CA
I agree. Concerns here are not about how big your WR time ego is. It is about making fast, entertaining TAS's. If someone can say that something is possible, that they've done it, but that they have no proof, fine. Either it is the truth or it is a lie. The person making the run can either try and verify the information given or he can pass on it. It is his call to use the information given to him.
As for Wouter, his disruptive and immature behavior does not belong on these boards.
"How can you prove you exist? Maybe we don't exist..."
-Vivi Ornitier (Final Fantasy IX)
