Banned User
Joined: 5/11/2004
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They use control style 1.2 or 2.3 and prolly keyboard, the movement keys are straight forward just like a PC fps, then for aiming they have to change to the joystick sensitivity a lot and go frame by frame.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Former player
Joined: 10/1/2006
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However a PC shooter will always be more accurate in aiming due to mouselook, but in N64 shooters you have guess when your crosshair is going to stop (in frame advance) Another problem with n64 shooters is that frame advance doesn't allow you to cover all fields of view, only highly divided subsections, which gives mouselook a huge advantage.
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Joined: 6/8/2005
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So is this a level-by-level process to discover the best shortcuts and techniques? And has anyone started from square 1 as of yet?
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SaxxonPike wrote:
So is this a level-by-level process to discover the best shortcuts and techniques? And has anyone started from square 1 as of yet?
yes, to some extent. Individual levels are being run to 1)provide us entertainment and 2) find the TAS benchmark for the run to beat. Rising Tempest is working on the actual run slowly but surely.
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very slowly...
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
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Joined: 10/23/2004
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Spider-Waffle wrote:
very slowly...
Fitting that Spider-Waffle of all people should make this comment ;)
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Too good.
Joined: 6/12/2006
Posts: 368
Time to leave, Dr. Doak.
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I'm not sure if the tas can beat the elite's records, since many of them spend hours every day playing and a lot of the levels are extremely luck-based (the hostages in frigate, for example)
Borg Collective wrote:
Negotiation is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. You will be assimilated.
Editor, Experienced player (734)
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laughing_gas wrote:
I'm not sure if the tas can beat the elite's records, since many of them spend hours every day playing and a lot of the levels are extremely luck-based (the hostages in frigate, for example)
I don't want to sound nit picky, but that description tells me a TAS will beat the elite's records. 1) It doesn't matter how many hours they plug in; RT still has rerecording and savestates. He has frame precision that they don't; by default he should beat their times by overcoming human skill and reflex. 2) TASes manipulate luck.
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But when the luck deals with people you can't even see on-screen, it's going to be extremely hard to determine which input affects what and so forth.
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Joined: 6/12/2006
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Yeah and the fact that it is unknown about how the timer deals with no lag.
Player (168)
Joined: 4/27/2006
Posts: 304
Location: Eastern Canada
laughing_gas wrote:
But when the luck deals with people you can't even see on-screen, it's going to be extremely hard to determine which input affects what and so forth.
Trial and error are one's best friends. How else would someone have figured out that it's the frame you exit the vent which determines Doak's placement? (Whoever figured this out by the way, major kudos to you). Things like Frigate hostages will be more tricky though. Grenade drops will be irritating to rig, but at the same time it's not too hard. Is based on your position and the frame which the guard first "sees" you. You can even makes guards miss you sometimes by looking down or up briefly at the right frame. This will help me when I get to Runway, I wont get shot during the last throw, and thus will get the 0:34 I could've gotten last time had that not happened- maybe 0:33 with some killer boost manipulation. In other news, I've more or less sorted out "the shit" I referred to in a previous post. Work on this TAS begins anew Monday, after Hangover Sunday (from the Greatest Party in the History of Man I will be hosting at my place Saturday). I only have one room left in Facility do to and it's so easy I don't know why I didn't sit down for an hour one of the days over last month which I had free time to do so. Oh well. Expect a WIP early this week guys.
Joined: 10/31/2005
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That's great news! Could you test things out while you're on it, just recently we started to notice some difference from using widescreen/cinema instead of fullscreen, it seems to be faster on levels like bunker 2 and train (they're pretty complex, without much of straight paths, but many turns and such). but I'd be really happy if you could do some tests for it on each level, we could really use the information for the real records =) and perhaps also see if 16:9 has any effect, or any other settings, who knows. but widescreen/cinema are the main ones, since we're already sure it has to be faster in some cases.
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Joined: 10/23/2004
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Wouter Jansen wrote:
That's great news! Could you test things out while you're on it, just recently we started to notice some difference from using widescreen/cinema instead of fullscreen, it seems to be faster on levels like bunker 2 and train (they're pretty complex, without much of straight paths, but many turns and such). but I'd be really happy if you could do some tests for it on each level, we could really use the information for the real records =) and perhaps also see if 16:9 has any effect, or any other settings, who knows. but widescreen/cinema are the main ones, since we're already sure it has to be faster in some cases.
Just out of curiousity, Wouter, is there a way to use those settings (16:9 etc) in multiplayer? I'm curious because I have a shiny new HD TV...
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hmz.. you're not on aim.. but then again.. I don't think you can (= answer)
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Jimbo said he used 16:9 cinima in multi, might have been gameshark
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Player (168)
Joined: 4/27/2006
Posts: 304
Location: Eastern Canada
So I've (finally) got the facility done. Though I was really looking forward to starting the runway, right away, I'm having a desync problem (ugh.). I have uploaded the .m64 file and two savestates here (right click, save as). State nine plays from the beginning of the facility, and desyncs when I go to pause for the decoder. State three plays from halfway through the level and finished it. I remember having this problem before, way back when I started my first test run of the game with one of the doors on the Dam... not exactly sure why this happens. So here's, SOMETHING for you guys. I'm gonna get started on redoing that last room now, but I'll monitor this thread in case anyone knows a solution to the problem and can save me the trouble.
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The wait was well worth it. Looked great up until the decoder for obvious reasons. some stable N64 games just have a random desynch every now and then. For Jet Force Gemini, an incredibly stable and well emulated game, I've had only 2 desynchs for 1 hour 20 minutes of input. For desynch heavy games, like Majora's Mask and other Exp Pak games, there's certain areas that have more desynchs than others or simply drops frames every now and then. so for this, I'm guessing it's either a random deysnch that can be easily fixed by restarting from that point, or you might've loaded states too fast or slightly out of order in some way (which may happen in other emulators, but to my knowledge doesn't occur with mupen very often/at all. my guess is it's the first, and simply starting from that point will fix it.)
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I don't have this particular game to watch on mupen, so if possible, an avi or youtube would be great. Thank you. (That is, once the desync is figured out).
Player (168)
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I never want to play the Facility again. Now, since I fixed the desync, and saved 3 whole frames in the process, I can move onto runway.
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Pweisger wrote:
I don't have this particular game to watch on mupen, so if possible, an avi or youtube would be great. Thank you. (That is, once the desync is figured out).
Previous levels were encoded, so I assume this one will be as well. If you have some "I want avi now!" emotions, I can make a quick encode, that won't be as crisp as the avi's that are hosted, but will show you the level.
Rising Tempest wrote:
I never want to play the Facility again. Now, since I fixed the desync, and saved 3 whole frames in the process, I can move onto runway.
and you don't ever have to touch it again. beautiful job, and it synched up perfectly. You mentioned that 50 might be possible, yet the timer was 52... I assume that estimate was a little too ambitious? excellent work regardless.
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Nice WIP! By the way, what was the time for the dam, since you skipped that screen really fast.
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Player (168)
Joined: 4/27/2006
Posts: 304
Location: Eastern Canada
Dam time was 1:49. Suddenly, I can't stop tassing at this game. I've already finished a three-quarter-assed play of the runway. This isn't final, I know 36 is feasable, and I'll get at worst that and move on. However, 34 or even 35 may not be possible as I had speculated earlier, as taking the most optimal route would get one torn to pieces by the furthest cannon. A backboost from this cannon seems unavoidable to not go too far off course. Avoiding this boost and staying out of it's line of fire until throwing the grenade at it forces me to walk too close to the far edge of the runway, and I lose time. While I avoided getting so many boosts at the end of the run (I get them earlier on instead), thus delaying the last grenade throw, the one time I get hit by the final gun is enough to force me to wait about 3/5th's of a second for the final grenade throw at the end- this would have made the difference between 37 and 36. While I tried many different throws at the gun to try and have it explode right away, it still took at least a second to die. Staying off course and avoiding this boost cost much more time than the short wait at the end. Anyway, I'll get back to work on the level this evening, probably start over from outside of the key hut. I probably could've given myself a better grenade boosts earlier on, gaining a couple frames and changing all the randomness for the rest of the level, hopefully, favorable randomness.
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Wow, the facility was incredible. I remember playing this for hours to try and get under 2:05, and finally getting good at it got me a 1:55 I think. To see it beat by over a minute is just ridiculous.
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