Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
With these new discoveries I should hope you're able to improve this movie by more than just a few seconds :) this chart has been a bit too shallow lately, it could use a nice big steep drop.
Experienced player (545)
Joined: 5/12/2005
Posts: 707
moozooh wrote:
I guess the programmers that coded them aren't feeling too good about it.
Heh for some reason I feel the same way too.
Omega wrote:
With these new discoveries I should hope you're able to improve this movie by more than just a few seconds :) this chart has been a bit too shallow lately, it could use a nice big steep drop.
After completing first 3 stages we are already about 2 seconds faster so no worries there and still we have 3 bigger ace cards in our sleeves to play with such as skipping two stages and using delay death to change our "after death" checkpoint.
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 757
Shinryuu wrote:
After completing first 3 stages we are already about 2 seconds faster so no worries there and still we have 3 bigger ace cards in our sleeves to play with such as skipping two stages and using delay death to change our "after death" checkpoint.
x.x This isn't Rockman anymore... this is just.. wtf. This isn't a game.. this is a massive glitch in progress! Mr. Kelly R. Flewin
Mr. Kelly R. Flewin Just another random gamer ---- <OmnipotentEntity> How do you people get bored in the span of 10 seconds? Worst ADD ever.
Skilled player (1652)
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy
Brushy wrote:
That makes the run less entertaining, because it eliminates even more actual gameplay.
I just watched the published run. I don't think there is much of what one would call 'gameplay' in the run.
Shinryuu wrote:
After completing first 3 stages we are already about 2 seconds faster so no worries there and still we have 3 bigger ace cards in our sleeves to play with such as skipping two stages and using delay death to change our "after death" checkpoint.
I'm guessing that means no change to the pub'd run route? Any chance of a WIP?
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Player (36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2631
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Joined: 1/13/2006
Posts: 109
I'm all for whatever improvements. Sure, if several smaller improvements equals one big one, I may still be for the smaller ones, as you can make those more enetertaining. But this is supposed to be about saving time, and if a big one saves even one frame more, go for the big one. Obsolete movies exist for our entertainment. Use the links to them.
Life is like a box of chocolates-when you want peanut butter, all you get is coconut.
Active player (276)
Joined: 4/20/2004
Posts: 219
Location: Japan,Tokyo
Mr.Shinryuu and I tried the introduction of a new DelayObject technique. But,our TAS had stopped for a long time(3Month). It is from too a low probability of DelayStageClear in BombManStage. It is more greatly difficult than the DelayScroll of Rockman2. Because it doesn't succeed only by adjusting the amount of instructions. But,there is a good news! Today, I finally defeated DelayStageClear in BombManStage!! Our TAS accomplished the saving of very big time. :P
Expert player (2573)
Joined: 12/23/2007
Posts: 831
Oh, congratulations! I can't wait to see your run.
Recent projects: SMB warpless TAS (2018), SMB warpless walkathon (2019), SMB something never done before (2019), Extra Mario Bros. (best ending) (2020).
AnS
Emulator Coder, Experienced player (728)
Joined: 2/23/2006
Posts: 682
Wow, this trick is certainly hi-class achievement. And it's so rare occurrence, it's amazing someone stumbled upon such ingame condition. Now I wonder if same technique could be used in another lag-heavy game. Because many NES games use similar bankswitching routine and bank changing/restoring in NMI, so it's only a matter of extreme coincidence to get NMI between two instructions (bank switching and variable storing). And for "coincidence" we have bots and pure luck...
finalfighter wrote:
I made HackROM with the same effect as delaytest.lua.
Patch HackROM:
A5 16 A0 06 29 10 F0 02 A0 05 8C 06 C0 EA
lda $16
ldy #$06
and #$04
beq +
ldy #$05
+
sty $C006
nop
BTW, shouldn't it be
lda $16
ldy #$06
and #$04
beq +
ldy #$05
sty $C005
bne skip
+
sty $C006
skip:
Because there's that racing condition between Read/Write, so 05 should be written to an address containing 05 (such as C005). Of course this has nothing to do with accuracy of Inzults' hardware test, I'm just being nitpicky. :)
Experienced player (634)
Joined: 8/28/2008
Posts: 443
AnS wrote:
Wow, this trick is certainly hi-class achievement. And it's so rare occurrence, it's amazing someone stumbled upon such ingame condition. Now I wonder if same technique could be used in another lag-heavy game. Because many NES games use similar bankswitching routine and bank changing/restoring in NMI, so it's only a matter of extreme coincidence to get NMI between two instructions (bank switching and variable storing). And for "coincidence" we have bots and pure luck...
Contra Force is a really lag-heavy game! Maybe someone could try it on that one! I also noticed that the new Rockman TAS is exactly as long as my TAS of Contra Force (12:23)! :)
Editor, Active player (297)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
AnS wrote:
BTW, shouldn't it be
  lda $16
  ldy #$06
  and #$04
  beq +
  ldy #$05
  sty $C005
  bne ++
+ sty $C006
++
The mapper does not really care about the lower bits of the address line used to program the mapper. It is merely a convention that it is often used in that manner, a convention that needn't be religiously followed. (Also, as for your code, did you make sure it fits in the allotted space?)
AnS
Emulator Coder, Experienced player (728)
Joined: 2/23/2006
Posts: 682
Bisqwit wrote:
AnS wrote:
BTW, shouldn't it be
  lda $16
  ldy #$06
  and #$04
  beq +
  ldy #$05
  sty $C005
  bne ++
+ sty $C006
++
The mapper does not really care about the lower bits of the address line used to program the mapper. It is merely a convention that it is often used in that manner, a convention that needn't be religiously followed.
Um... no, this convention has hardware roots. It's not about address, it's about bus conflicts. When we're writing 05 (101b) to ROM location that contains 06 (110b) as a result we may switch bank to 07 (111b), because UNROM mapper doesn't disable ROM's output signal. You can read about it here: http://wiki.nesdev.com/w/index.php/Bus_conflict http://wiki.nesdev.com/w/index.php/Programming_UNROM
Bisqwit wrote:
(Also, as for your code, did you make sure it fits in the allotted space?)
Nah, it'd obviously overwrite some original code, as well as FinalFighter's IPS did.
Active player (276)
Joined: 4/20/2004
Posts: 219
Location: Japan,Tokyo
I tested DelayMagnetBeamAdapter with BombManStage. DelayMagnetBeamAdapter moves under the left. :) Because the object appeared forward when I used DelayMagnetBeamAdapter in sniper Joe's location, I was possible to acquire it. It is only at this place that appears from the front side. However, coming here is slow. (And, it is also difficult to collect objects for DelayObjectGlitch) http://www.yuko2ch.net/rockman/delaymagnetbeamadapter-forward.avi I cannot acquire it when appearing backward the DelayMagnetBeamAdapter. http://www.yuko2ch.net/rockman/delaymagnetbeamadapterbackward.avi I want to acquire MagnetBeamAdapter in front of ElecMan. I think about the following possibilities. DelayMagnetBeamAdapter(Forward) 1:We goto to sniper Joe's place very quickly using DelayTransform(Object4D) or DelayWarpDeath(Object5D) or DelayBKeyHoldingAI_E(Object5E). DelayMagnetBeamAdapter(Backward) 2:We acquire the magnet beam that appeared backward using DelayBKeyHoldingAI_E(Object5E). (Object5E greatly drives X coordinates and Y coordinates mad. In a word, we might be able to acquire the magnet beam that appears backward. ) However, these are very difficult :P I used two LuaScript to investigate. *rm1delayobject_rev2_number.lua http://www.yuko2ch.net/rockman/rm1delayobject_rev2_number.lua You understand the behavior when the object actually appears in the place. This script regularly rewrites the bank number. And, when the object of set number appears, script is pause. When the select is pushed, the pause becomes effective.
select button:ON,OFF(pause)
P:Inc ObjectNumber
O:Dec ObjectNumber
S:Save
L:Load
*rm1delaytestnumber.lua http://www.yuko2ch.net/rockman/rm1delaytestnumber.lua I use it to know the behavior of the object of the number. This script makes the object of an arbitrary number appear. The function for the appearance of the object turns on when you push the selection twice.
select button:ON,OFF(apparance of object)
P:Inc ObjectNumber
O:Dec ObjectNumber
Skilled player (1652)
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy
FinalFighter: I thought you couldn't do delay-stage clear without the elec beam - therefore, doesn't it still make sense to do elec man first, instead of playing through bomb man to get the magnet beam? Sorry if I misunderstood.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Active player (276)
Joined: 4/20/2004
Posts: 219
Location: Japan,Tokyo
We avoided DelayStageClear of RockBuster last t ime because objects other than 10 and 20 almost did not appear. But , I think it might be possible though DelayStageClear of RockBuster is very very difficult. (The probability might be very low. 1/10,000,000rerecord? :) ) It takes time to collect items or more enemies are defeated at the same time for 3000 intstructions. It might be good to obtain HyperBomb even if DelayMagnetBeamAdapter is impossible. If it doesn't take time to a DelayStageClear of RockBuster too much, we might be able to save the time in Battle of ElecMan.
Joined: 5/19/2010
Posts: 259
Location: California
Somehow, this new Magnet Beam glitch blows my mind more than DelayStageClear.
#3201
Player (46)
Joined: 9/25/2008
Posts: 48
i dont know how the award system works here at all but im gonna go ahead and nominate finalfighter for taser of the year i know its hard for people who don't know mega man games to appreciate it but seriously this guy is NUTS and the new techniques completely blow my mind, great work as always!
Active player (276)
Joined: 4/20/2004
Posts: 219
Location: Japan,Tokyo
Current investigation: *DelayMagnetBeamAdapter(BombManStage) Perhaps ,it may be impossible or too slow. Because neither Object5D nor 5E appear in BombManStage, MagnetBeamAdapter cannot be collected. Besides, there is no object that drives Y coordinates of Rockman mad in BombManStage. When Object5D goes out by rm1delayobject_rev2_number.lua, I want you to report. *DelayStageClear with only RockBuster(BombManStage) It is possible. I select BombMan first. And , I am challenging new TAS. (BOT:249506rerecord) Though I have not understood whether it is possible to save yet. >Mr.aglasscage I also want you to help new MM1TAS.
Player (64)
Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 123
Location: Lake Havasu, Arizona
So is it a small possibility you might end up making another TAS eventually even faster than the current 12 minute one that was published a few days ago on here ?? :) I would love that. :) assuming this new magnet beam-bombman situation works out ??
Joined: 5/19/2010
Posts: 259
Location: California
finalfighter wrote:
It might be good to obtain HyperBomb even if DelayMagnetBeamAdapter is impossible. If it doesn't take time to a DelayStageClear of RockBuster too much, we might be able to save the time in Battle of ElecMan.
How much damage does ElecMan take from Hyper Bomb? I assume at least 2 damage, since Buster does just 1 damage.
#3201
Active player (276)
Joined: 4/20/2004
Posts: 219
Location: Japan,Tokyo
I found the method by which I was able to get MagnetBeam in BombManStage. NewExample(using testlua script): http://www.yuko2ch.net/rockman/delaymagnetbeam_smallexplosion.avi Though the probability might be very low. :) 1:DelayMagnetBeamAdapter(Object42,Backward) (MagnetBeamAdapter moves under the left.) 2:DelaySmallExplosion 3:Y of Rockman go mad by the sprite overflow.(Already known glitch) 4:Rockman's Y coordinates become near of C0-D0. 5:I collect the magnet beam by the technique that uses a right edge of the screen. As a result, we can finally use MagnetBeam in ElecManStage. :P
Noxxa
They/Them
Moderator, Expert player (4127)
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4090
Location: The Netherlands
What the... As if the game wasn't glitched enough already.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
adelikat
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player (3575)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4754
Location: Tennessee
Amazing, every time I think it is glitched to the point of absurdity, you raise the bar!
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
Banned User
Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049
Bomb damage to elec doesn't matter, they can go bomb>guts>cut>elec>ice>fire. Makes you wonder if bomb first via buster would be faster even without magnet beam. So using cuts on elecman should save lots of time as well as magnet beam on first half of elec stage. I'm sure you'll find a way!
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Noxxa
They/Them
Moderator, Expert player (4127)
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4090
Location: The Netherlands
Spider-Waffle wrote:
Bomb damage to elec doesn't matter, they can go bomb>guts>cut>elec>ice>fire. Makes you wonder if bomb first via buster would be faster even without magnet beam.
I don't think Bomb needs to get bustered, just DelayStageCleared.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.