This topic is for the purpose of discussing #9332: KusogeMan's GC Capcom vs. SNK 2: EO "survival, high score" in 36:32.00

The goal of survival mode, which is winning all opponents one by one, restricts the entertainment value a little, because you can't switch your character in-between battles. The choice of character decreases it a little more by reducing the challenge, since Shin Akuma deals more damage than his usual alter ego, making the fights easier. The tactic of hitting opponents while they're holding a block is a little dubious in terms of optimization, because it takes quite long to earn "+20 guard crush" bonus. It also would be beneficial to do the superpower attack of 30+ combo hits when your opponent has little to none health, to earn more points. Anyway, I didn't do the calculations to confirm the most optimal tactic. After all, the run focuses on entertainment too. The battles are variative, and they don't feel boring. Yes vote

The goal of survival mode, which is winning all opponents one by one, restricts the entertainment value a little, because you can't switch your character in-between battles. The choice of character decreases it a little more by reducing the challenge, since Shin Akuma deals more damage than his usual alter ego, making the fights easier. The tactic of hitting opponents while they're holding a block is a little dubious in terms of optimization, because it takes quite long to earn "+20 guard crush" bonus. It also would be beneficial to do the superpower attack of 30+ combo hits when your opponent has little to none health, to earn more points. Anyway, I didn't do the calculations to confirm the most optimal tactic. After all, the run focuses on entertainment too. The battles are variative, and they don't feel boring. Yes vote

shin akuma takes more damage as well he has lowest HP in the game, so his capabilities are balanced by his health, but in tas we only get hit to show off interactions, if i want to. it's like you said, the TAS already has the merit of reaching highest score possible, which is something i hadn't seen previously but if i went exclusively for that i know it would be more repetitive and i got a little tired of TASing only speed related goals, the high score seemed like a better to allow variations that still entertain. I wouldn't be able to Misogi super "teleport chop from the sky" if i went exclusively for speed wouldn't be able to show off some parrying and weird trades and hit interactions with pure speed for the high score. I've been trying some combos exclusive to TAS in order to create a playaround but I don't have enough content so far.

Hi Kusoge, At 1:44 you beat Maki having taken a bit of damage and thus do not get additional score for a perfect fight. This seems obviously sub-optimal in terms of score, do you have an explanation for this?

i wanted to show off interactions besides just doing more score, in this case how the super has so little invencibility it trades with a kick at the end of the day the score has a limit, so we were gonna get there anyway, in hindsight i believe another groove might be faster as well for getting max score, probably A groove but i'm not 100% sure of that, i would also lose access to misogi super and shun goku satsu if i went the faster route and wouldn't have JD or Parry if i didnt at least pick an Ex Groove if not P or K groove

What's the limit?

What's the limit?

9999

Can you give a rough approximation of how much faster it would have been if it didn't aim for entertainment at all?

Don't you know how many times you opted to use a more entertaining strat rather than a faster one? Like maybe once or a few times in some levels, or never in others? Or more?

Don't you know how many times you opted to use a more entertaining strat rather than a faster one? Like maybe once or a few times in some levels, or never in others? Or more?

i have no idea if i'm going faster by choosing K groove, using the defensive strats, or using the aggressive strats, all that is known is that PARRY and JD adds points, going faster adds points, bigger combos add more points, but if the time spent in one activity or the other is better, i have no idea, everything indicates that combos and parry are better to get points, as this is the first time the 9999 points were recorded, but i don't know if i should keep parrying more or ending the rounds faster.

Some back of the envelope calculations: Starting score: 100.0 From one of your best fights (Morrigan) in terms of speed and score you get:

• Vitality: 20
• Perfect Bonus: 50
• Max Combo Bonus: 94

Which theoretically brings you 164 points per battle if you won all of them in the same way. Since there are 48 battles, you'd receive 7872 points only from end-of-battle bonuses. This means you only need 2128 extra points from combos+parry+etc during the fights, with an average of 44 points per battle. In your morrigan fight, you obtained 68 points from combos (more than 44) and finished it in 13 seconds. If you had beaten all fights in the same time, you'd have finished the game in 10:04.00 (IGT). However, in this movie you beat all the fights in 22:46.16 (IGT), 1366 seconds in total. That brings a 28 second average per battle. This means your movie contains more than half (~53%) IGT time which is not directly required to accomplish the goal. The question is whether this much tradeoff is justified by the added entertainment component

I decided to give this TAS a watch. The more varied use of moves and combos definitely helped increase the initial entertainment of the run, but unfortunately, it still grew stale for me relatively quickly, and I found myself not wanting to watch any more by the midpoint. I also found myself a little confused at a few points - occasionally the player's attacks wouldn't connect and there didn't seem to be any reason why. Some of the non-parried/blocked attacks also fell into this category for me. This definitely feels like a playaround rather than a speedrun, but it outstays its welcome for me and doesn't offer anything too extraordinary. I voted No for this reason.

I watched this after #9372: KusogeMan's GC Capcom vs. SNK 2: EO "playaround" in 21:05.85 to better understand the difference and the goal of this run. Unfortunately it doesn't make the actual goal clearer. #9372: KusogeMan's GC Capcom vs. SNK 2: EO "playaround" in 21:05.85 has variety and looks good, because it has a lot of fighters represented and different things are happening all the time. This submission obviously doesn't look as bland as simply spamming the same move, it looks okay, but still it doesn't feel like one fighter has enough arsenal of moves to make half an hour varied enough for a "playaround". And even with all the variety, the goal is still speed, so in the end the run is still less exciting as the proper "playaround". A "playaround" isn't meant to limit itself, but due to limitations this goal had, the action didn't remain fresh, it just felt a bit more random than in a pure speedrun. If 30-50% of the movie is for entertainment, it would need to be due to a goal that's entertaining even in a speedrun, or it'd need to be unlimited in terms of speed to actually look good. I can't consider variety of this run a speed/entertainment tradeoff that's just added to make the actual speed goal more smooth. It's an extra goal in itself, so this run is technically "Survival, maximum score, playaround". But the "playaround" part of it is too limited by other sub-goals. In my opinion they don't quite work in a combination. Since this movie doesn't look bad, just the combination of goals taken makes its entertainment questionable, I'm voting Meh.

I do not think it is boring but not interesting enough for me to watch the whole thing after a couple minutes. Not as interesting as the playaround imo.

thanks for your feedback here's another survival tas high score but now no time wasting trying to entertain just combos to get high score and after uncombo to go even faster when you don't need points anymore https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/638666393948501231 verification movie is the same as the other TAS that was accepted: i need it to use ex groove to combo easier https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/638661635698903772

thanks for your feedback here's another survival tas high score but now no time wasting trying to entertain just combos to get high score and after uncombo to go even faster when you don't need points anymore https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/638666393948501231

Hi Kusoge. Since this is an entirely new movie (not a slight optimization or truncation), it will need to be uploaded as a separate submission. This is to have voting, feedback, sync and encode specific to that work, instead of mixing it with those in this submission. Before you do that, I'd recommend cancelling this one.

verification movie is the same as the other TAS that was accepted: i need it to use ex groove to combo easier https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/638661635698903772

Can you please explain why ex groove is necessary for the movie? Is this something you need to unlock and is not available from a new game start?

ex groove allows for different combos that can stun later so i can do more hits before stunning and also allows for other combo enders, both runs are still verification movie based so i figured "why not?"

om, nom, nom... juicy!

https://tasvideos.org/9381S this is the new version