You read that right. Max score, Desert Bus. ~33 day long TAS.
This is an actual serious submission, now with the new rules apparently making this acceptable.
Rerecord count is just from preparing the intro and doing some research. A majority of the run was automated, using a stripped down environment to quickly generate the input (well, it still took ~1.5 days to generate). The repo for this can be found here: https://github.com/CasualPokePlayer/slimhawk
Also, input ends early here. For the final trip, I skew to the left side of the road enough to ensure once I stop input, the bus will not slow down faster than otherwise. I didn't know exactly where it should stop (outside of a rough guess of 0x181 game distance units), so I set my bot to slowly figure it out with a buffer of 0x400 distance.
Thanks goes to Dacicus for a lua script I referenced when making my C bot. The lua script can be found here: https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/58177909671900143
Now for actual issues with this submission: while this movie was originally intended for 2.8, it requires a dev build to actually play back. Simply be, BizHawk will crash if you load a movie with more than 134217728 frames. This wasn't an explicit limitation, but rather it was due to implementation details with .NET. [1] The issue has been fixed in 2.9 development builds. No sync related changes for gpgx have actually occurred which particularly affect, and there probably will not be when 2.9 is released (as the core isn't particularly active in maintaining). If absolutely needed, I can simply re-run my bot with 2.9's gpgx.
Another fun issue for this TAS was that previously submitting this would crash the site parser. This was due to it reading the ENTIRE input log file at once, UNCOMPRESSED, into a single string. The input log file here is 2.7GB uncompressed (and as a fun bonus, .NET stores strings as UTF16 rather than UTF8, so reading the file into a single string resulted in a 5.4GB sized string!). This easily hit .NET's 2GB limit, and thus crashed and resulted in a "general error." This has been fixed of course (otherwise this submission could not happen :P)
Extra thanks to Samsara for saying Desert Bus is now acceptable and thus making me do this insane thing.
[1] For those interested in gory technical reasons: Internally, BizHawk uses a "List" of strings to store input. Internally, this "List" uses an array of strings, whose size is doubled every time it needs to grow. So when the array has 134217728 strings in it, and it needs to double when another string is added, which results in an array of 268435456 strings. In .NET, a single object cannot be > 2GB in size. And in .NET, a string is a reference type (i.e. "pointer"), which on a 64-bit system is 8 bytes big. 268435456*8=2147483648, 2GB, add some more bytes for size... whoops, too big! The workaround is simple: use a fixed size for the growth of the "List" (16777216 is used in 2.9 dev's fix, which should in practice help not insanely long TASes a tad performance wise as a bonus). And we ended up ditching that due to some other issues and just made it so "very large objects" were allowed, so the List should be able to store at least 4294967295 frames of input.

Samsara: oh no
Samsara: Y'know what? I'm gonna set this to Needs More Info, partially to be unique but also to be entirely accurate. Thing is, the info we need is whether or not we can actually, from a purely technical standpoint, publish a TAS that is over a month long, so I'll get back to y'all when we stop shrieking in fear and figure it out one way or another.
Samsara: I think we've managed to get to a place where we've figured out how we want to publish this.
It's been quite a while since this was submitted and the acceptability of it was discussed, so here's a quick reminder of my thoughts and why those are irrelevant now. My initial thought with this run was simply that it shows superhuman capability through endurance. Human limits make this run nearly impossible in RTA (and actually impossible for a single human): Assuming you have a large group of people and absolutely nothing goes wrong the entire time, which over the course of over a month is a slim possibility, it is theoretically possible, but even in situations where a group of people actively play the game for extended periods of time, plenty of things go wrong. In other words, this is absolutely not a trivial run. The gameplay itself is intentionally trivial, but reaching the score limit in particular has and probably will never be done by human hands. All that being said, since this run was submitted, we repealed the triviality clause and came up with a solid definition for the kinds of things we can accept. Desert Bus clearly fits this criteria, so all of my waxing poetic over surpassing human limits and arguing against triviality is effectively meaningless.
That just left the publication issue, or as I like to call it, several agonizing months of circular conversation that never really got anywhere. Just to put it bluntly: We cannot publish this normally. YouTube will not allow it. I believe the downloadables on Archive are going to be "normal" (although there could definitely be problems with uploading them, because Archive), but there's no way we can come to a sensible conclusion with putting the entire thing on YouTube. Simply put, it would take too much time that we can't spare and too many resources that we can't afford. A conservative estimate was that uploading the full run to YouTube in some way would take nearly two full months from a single Publisher, which is absolutely unreasonable in our collective opinion as staff. It would be shorter if we had multiple Publishers working, but the more hands we tie up with this single run, the less people we have working on the rest of the workbench, and not only do we not have that many Publishers to begin with, but we're in a record-shattering year of submissions that are only going to keep piling up. We can barely afford to have one Publisher tied up on Desert Bus, multiple would be a nightmare. I believe the consensus was to only put the first point on YouTube and link to the downloadables for anyone who really wants to watch the full run. It's possible that, in the future, should we have more time/resources/people to spare, that the other 98 points can also go up, but we're not going to focus on that right now or likely even anytime soon. We have the rest of the site to focus on.
Welp. Time to be the person who literally accepts Desert Bus on TASVideos. E-mail me some Rumple Minze if you want to help me deal with the inevitable fallout. My e-mail address is some letters. What's alcohol poisoning? Good luck.
Spikestuff has already begun the publication process. Also, I've wiped the rerecord count since the run contains 33 days of botted input.
Spikestuff: Well shit.


TASVideoAgent
They/Them
Moderator
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 15594
Location: 127.0.0.1
ShesChardcore
She/Her
Skilled player (1592)
Joined: 2/23/2022
Posts: 132
Location: MN
I watched the entire thing I promise Yes vote
EZGames69
He/They
Publisher, Reviewer, Expert player (4464)
Joined: 5/29/2017
Posts: 2762
Shouldn’t the game title be “Penn & Teller's Smoke and Mirrors: Desert Bus”?
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't 12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!" Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish [Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
TASVideosGrue
They/Them
Joined: 10/1/2008
Posts: 2786
Location: The dark corners of the TASVideos server
om, nom, nom... 'twas dry
Samsara
She/They
Senior Judge, Site Admin, Expert player (2239)
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2822
Location: Northern California
Quick note: This will be uncancelled and judged when BizHawk 2.9 is released.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family. Now infrequently posting on Bluesky
warmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Spikestuff
They/Them
Editor, Publisher, Expert player (2649)
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6442
Location: The land down under.
Samsara wrote:
Quick note: This will be uncancelled and judged when BizHawk 2.9 is released.
Here is my shotgun, and here is my painful wish of claiming it on publication.
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account. Something better for yourself and also others.
Dimon12321
He/Him
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (596)
Joined: 4/5/2014
Posts: 1223
Location: Romania
Hahahahahaha-ha! That's cool, but can Desert Bus be taboo-ed for publication? Not in defence of Spikestuff, but who will watch this publication?
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
Memory
She/Her
Site Admin, Skilled player (1557)
Joined: 3/20/2014
Posts: 1766
Location: Dumpster
Dimon12321 wrote:
Hahahahahaha-ha! That's cool, but can Desert Bus be taboo-ed for publication? Not in defence of Spikestuff, but who will watch this publication?
People who want to watch a month of desert bus. What does perceived lack of viewers affect you or even the site in any way? We've long since moved past the idea that TASes have to be entertaining to be published.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
InputEvelution
She/Her
Editor, Reviewer, Player (36)
Joined: 3/27/2018
Posts: 194
Location: Australia
I can confirm that I will absolutely be watching this TAS in its full length when it gets published. Not in one sitting, though.
Dimon12321
He/Him
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (596)
Joined: 4/5/2014
Posts: 1223
Location: Romania
Memory wrote:
Dimon12321 wrote:
Hahahahahaha-ha! That's cool, but can Desert Bus be taboo-ed for publication? Not in defence of Spikestuff, but who will watch this publication?
People who want to watch a month of desert bus. What does perceived lack of viewers affect you or even the site in any way? We've long since moved past the idea that TASes have to be entertaining to be published.
It doesn't affect me. I'm not interested neither in this game, nor in this "TAS". I just don't see the point in encoding and publishing it and I think you don't see it either. For such a game, which is unique case for sure, all the judge has to do is note the time, make sure it matches the rules and make a decision. I'm sure in that case, which I hope will be the only one in the site's history, this is necessary and sufficient, like some Math theorems say. Even though the site's trademark includes the recording and publishing of each accepted movie, recording 33 days of maximally repetitive gameplay doesn't make sense. I'm not trying to persuade anybody to refuse to publish it, my opinion has never been worthy in 8 years of my presence. But my point is, that's not a good idea. After all, don't encoders have any others things to do?
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
Site Admin, Skilled player (1254)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11479
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
Dimon12321 wrote:
It doesn't affect me. I'm not interested neither in this game, nor in this "TAS". I just don't see the point in encoding and publishing it and I think you don't see it either. For such a game, which is unique case for sure, all the judge has to do is note the time, make sure it matches the rules and make a decision. I'm sure in that case, which I hope will be the only one in the site's history, this is necessary and sufficient, like some Math theorems say. Even though the site's trademark includes the recording and publishing of each accepted movie, recording 33 days of maximally repetitive gameplay doesn't make sense. I'm not trying to persuade anybody to refuse to publish it, my opinion has never been worthy in 8 years of my presence. But my point is, that's not a good idea. After all, don't encoders have any others things to do?
The point of this run is that it was challenging to accomplish. Of course someone might have recorded it in realtime, but for a programmer it was more interesting to script it all in advance, and then to fix bugs in bizhawk and the site that made it not possible for this movie to be made and submitted. Encoding it will also be challenging, and probably judging too. That's the whole point - for the fun of it! And I'm speaking as someone who's not a fan of this whole idea lol. But as long as we have people eager to invest themselves into it, it's okay! It's not like we suddenly started removing entertaining runs from the site anyway.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Memory
She/Her
Site Admin, Skilled player (1557)
Joined: 3/20/2014
Posts: 1766
Location: Dumpster
Dimon12321 wrote:
It doesn't affect me. I'm not interested neither in this game, nor in this "TAS". I just don't see the point in encoding and publishing it and I think you don't see it either. For such a game, which is unique case for sure, all the judge has to do is note the time, make sure it matches the rules and make a decision. I'm sure in that case, which I hope will be the only one in the site's history, this is necessary and sufficient, like some Math theorems say. Even though the site's trademark includes the recording and publishing of each accepted movie, recording 33 days of maximally repetitive gameplay doesn't make sense. I'm not trying to persuade anybody to refuse to publish it, my opinion has never been worthy in 8 years of my presence. But my point is, that's not a good idea. After all, don't encoders have any others things to do?
Oh but I do see a point. Archival. For those curious to see how any game can be beaten as quickly as possible. Now I'm not saying that the encode should necessarily be the number one project for x amount of days and should be done as soon as possible, but it is absolutely something that can be worked on over time. In the process we can figure out a good workflow for this type of run. Your post just comes off as overly negative and elitist and I don't see the point, other then to put people and TASes down. That is something you've been called out for in the past (see Nethack) and it absolutely needs to stop.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Dimon12321
He/Him
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (596)
Joined: 4/5/2014
Posts: 1223
Location: Romania
feos wrote:
The point of this run is that it was challenging to accomplish. Of course someone might have recorded it in realtime, but for a programmer it was more interesting to script it all in advance, and then to fix bugs in bizhawk and the site that made it not possible for this movie to be made and submitted. Encoding it will also be challenging, and probably judging too. That's the whole point - for the fun of it! And I'm speaking as someone who's not a fan of this whole idea lol. But as long as we have people eager to invest themselves into it, it's okay! It's not like we suddenly started removing entertaining runs from the site anyway.
From this point of view, it makes sense. I'm not criticizing the process of making this TAS. Geez, I'd wish I could program such a bot on my own. But 33 days? Like, come on! Ugh, may the fun not go through tortures. Just launch a 24/7 stream of it, when that yearly Desert Bus charity competition begins, and there you go. Alternatively, it will be 33*2 parts of 12-hour videos and another one that takes the remaining 2 hours.
Memory wrote:
Your post just comes off as overly negative and elitist and I don't see the point, other then to put people and TASes down. That is something you've been called out for in the past (see Nethack) and it absolutely needs to stop.
I'll be honest with you and everyone else. It doesn't take much effort from me to be a part of the crowd that says "Yes" to any proposal as long as it doesn't do much for it. I just stay skeptic to activities that will take a giant amount of time to do and will very likely have little avail as a result (let it be poor feedback, lack of attention etc.). I know how time-consuming TASing can be, but sometimes it may require something more than just self-satisfaction of done work that had taken thousands of hours, regardless of how humble you may be and how the phrase "Yes, I've finally done it!" may reward you. And that's if an author has finished its work. It could have became the victim of its own high ambitious. Guess, there were a lot of such cases. That's about movie making, not movie encoding, but the point is similar. I'm not trying put people or that TAS down. All I do is question the point of publishing it after it gets accepted. I prefer to question things when it makes sense, rather than share blind optimism to everything I see or just ignore something.
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
Editor, Expert player (2078)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3282
Something I was curious about. Does this TAS stop as soon as the trip count first reaches 99? It may be better to go one further to show that the trip count no longer increments after 99, similar to how [4769] Uzebox 2048 "maximum score" by p0008874 in 02:17.35 defines max score by overflowing to prove that the max score was reached, as opposed to stopping literally at the maximum possible number (65532). Fun fact: The trip count no longer incrementing after 99 is an intentional troll move by Penn & Teller. I did not realize at the time I first saw the #2211: alden's SegaCD Desert Bus in 41:17:15:05.68 submission, but I realized immediately when I read something in an article similar to the following (if anyone has a more reliable source, feel free to post it):
https://www.newyorker.com/tech/annals-of-technology/desert-bus-the-very-worst-video-game-ever-created wrote:
Penn, Teller, and the game’s publisher, Absolute Entertainment, planned a lavish prize for any player that scored a hundred points, a feat that would require eight hundred continuous hours of play: a real-life trip from Tucson to Las Vegas on a desert bus carrying showgirls and a live band.
Read the first twenty words of this quote and you will immediately see why.
Emulator Coder, Judge, Experienced player (730)
Joined: 2/26/2020
Posts: 783
Location: California
The TAS stops rather at a point where the bus can drift towards the end mark while it slows down from a lack of input.
Samsara
She/They
Senior Judge, Site Admin, Expert player (2239)
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2822
Location: Northern California
Samsara wrote:
Quick note: This will be uncancelled and judged when BizHawk 2.9 is released.
oh no
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family. Now infrequently posting on Bluesky
warmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Spikestuff
They/Them
Editor, Publisher, Expert player (2649)
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6442
Location: The land down under.
oh no
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account. Something better for yourself and also others.
Editor, Publisher, Player (47)
Joined: 10/15/2021
Posts: 376
I do wonder how long it will take to publish this.
XTREMAL93
He/Him
Active player (446)
Joined: 1/6/2012
Posts: 586
Location: Azerbaijan, Baku
I will vote after watching. See you in 33 days
nymx
He/Him
Editor, Judge, Expert player (2236)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 932
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
Encode please? LOL
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
nymx
He/Him
Editor, Judge, Expert player (2236)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 932
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
despoa wrote:
I do wonder how long it will take to publish this.
That was the first thing I thought of. I've had some C64 games that upload faster than my TAS length, but I also see games like Krusty's Super Fun house take hours on end for something that is about an hour. How do you guys manage internet interruptions and other problems? I am all for an encode...because of archiving, but I also see that a full round of work here is also a MASSIVE challenge...even though that game is not at all desirable to me. I do congratulate CPP on this effort, and I will say the same for the rest involved with getting this submission completed.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Banned User
Joined: 1/6/2023
Posts: 263
By the way, YouTube has gone away from the days of 500 hour meme videos and videos are now capped at 12 hours or 128GB, whichever comes first. (Unverified account it's 15 minutes) Pretty neat but a bit of a novelty somebody'll click off of in less than 30 seconds, for something so challenging to the poor encoders. Since "anything" is accepted these days is there even a point to the voting system or discussion (aka "vote and discuss") anymore? Seems like game choice and entertainment are no longer considered, so it's just optimization I presume. Not trying to be sassy and it's hard to set tone through a keyboard, so a disclaimer that I'm genuinely curious. I do think this is worthy of acceptance due to the effort put in to making the bot.
Published TASes: #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12 Please consider voting for me as Rookie TASer Of 2023 - Voting is in December 2023 My rule is quality TASes over quantity TASes... unless I'm bored.
Site Admin, Skilled player (1254)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11479
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
OtakuTAS wrote:
Since "anything" is accepted these days is there even a point to the voting system or discussion (aka "vote and discuss") anymore? Seems like game choice and entertainment are no longer considered, so it's just optimization I presume. Not trying to be sassy and it's hard to set tone through a keyboard, so a disclaimer that I'm genuinely curious. I do think this is worthy of acceptance due to the effort put in to making the bot.
We're thinking of changing it to something like submission rating, similar to pub rating, with ratings carrying over to the pub. Then it would be able to mean whatever you want to use it for, technical quality, or entertainment, or both, or something else.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Banned User
Joined: 1/6/2023
Posts: 263
33 x 24 = 792 hours of footage 12 goes into 792 66 times = 66 YouTube videos
Published TASes: #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12 Please consider voting for me as Rookie TASer Of 2023 - Voting is in December 2023 My rule is quality TASes over quantity TASes... unless I'm bored.
Spikestuff
They/Them
Editor, Publisher, Expert player (2649)
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6442
Location: The land down under.
YouTube doesn't allow dead on 12 hours. It's better to go by trips as well so at least each segment is completed.
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account. Something better for yourself and also others.