To see if there exists any possible distinction, I compared the first 2 complete ACTs of Two different mode, Director's Cut Mode and Time Challenge Mode.
And the answer proves to be positive.
Different hitbox
Different pixel deviation with the same enemy at the same location
Different method of enemies-attack
For instance, different movement route & motivation
Time Challenge Mode has 1 lag frame more than Director's Cut Mode, after the end of each divided ACT.
Malignant Bug: If you kill an enemy from behind his back and then jump and get in contact with his "dead" body. Then he will be resurrected with 1 HP left. You will get an instant failure if in a infiltration mission.
Attention: The same terrain doesn't always be the same even if they look the same.
Branch Name
Time Challenge: An optional difficulty, with Time limited, based on "Director's Cut Mode".
Take 0 Damage: Except for the performance and illustration of Game Story, the Player Character doesn't get injured.
Speedrun: exactly as you commonly know it, rush through the game as fast as possible.
Bugs or Tricks I Used
Be noticed by an enemy and then run away or get disappeared in the enemy's sight, which will urge the enemy to turn back and go aside.
In addition to the item above, each sort of enemies has a different period (usually 20 frames approximately) before their finally catch sight of the Player Character.
It will take several frames for Searchlight Beam to locate its snipher at the Player Character.
Searchlight Beam has a pixel deviation, and so does enemies.
To grab a slightly higher platform while jumping upwards, perform a Punch (B) or Kick (r). Sometimes It may cause a delay of several frames to Grab a Cliff.
Most utilized solution in combat: Attack from behind the enemies.
I use game embedded cheat to unlock "Time Challenge Mode".
Rolling before an EXIT can save 1 or 2 frames, but be cautious to the distance from the EXIT and the Timing to perform a roll.
Optimization
Falling Position Adjustment (distribution of Key (←) & Key (→) ), to reach the farthest distance when falling downwards from a higher platform.
Calculate the maximum falling height, to grab the mesh, poles or ladders and then drop.
Perform a punch (B) or kick (r) at former 2 or 3 frames ahead of Player Character landing on the ground, in which case, the Player's able to run through behind the enemy. But more significantly, ensure that the punch or kick touches the enemy walking ahead of you but doesn't cause damage, only showing the Health Bar (HP) of the enemy. On the contrary, should the method be taken advantage of in mission of infiltration, you will fail the mission.
→→+B (Punch while running) 16 frames before dropping from a platform, and the Player will reach the farthest distance.
Add or substract the number of Key (A, Jump), to shrink the period of Player being retained in the air. The less retention time of being in the air, the more frames will be saved.
Velocity: running > jumping while running > moving on the mesh, a pole or a ladder.
I use →→↓+B/r to give the Boss a final attack to finish him.
(Stick) →→+B/r to knock away enimes and destroy the box that contains a key (🔑).
I use ←+B/r in the air when confronted with an enemy that cannot be evaded in a common way.
Kill more enemies at the same time as many as possible.
Details
Stage
Optimization
For All ACT
Falling Down location adjusted; Shrink unnecessary time of staying in the air: manipulate the extent of jump to just right reach a higher platform; Short jump; Mostly Use Backward Punch (l+B) to attack from behind the enemies; Use Backward Punch (l+B) 2 times to destroy the Stone Pile or Wooden Door in a short distance
ACT 1-1
Rolling at 2 frames ahead of Landing
1-2
Trick.1: Jump ahead of the enemy and rush to the hideaway, then press Key (↑) lasting for 1 frame, then run away
1-3
Rolling Kick location adjusted; Running Punch at 16 frames ahead of starting to drop; Wallflip instead of 2 times of Platform Jump
1-4
Leftward Kick; Only grab the Pole once
1-5
Enemies Prediction: Fininsh them before they landing on the ground as soon as possible; Rolling
ACT 2-1
Adjust the time of jumping to seduce the enemy into jumping; Pick the Stick after turning back; Backward Attack in the air for those enemies in the way
2-2
Use Running Kick instead of Long Jump as much as possible
2-3
Directly Drop and adjust the Falling-down location; Landing as soon as possible; Running Kick and run across the enemy; Wallflip; Grab less Poles
2-4
B, l+B; ↑+r from beneath the enemies; Running Kick; Seduction; Running Punch (→→+B) and Walking Punch (→+B) to finish the 2 Thugs
ACT 3-1
Running Kick; Running Punch
3-2
Grab the Pole
3-3
Wallflip Adjusted; Knife Saving
ACT 4-1
Backward Punch
4-2
Finish more enemies at the same time
4-3
Jump to deceive enemies; One-time Finish All
4-4
Combine ACT 4-2 with ACT 4-3
4-5
Backward Punch; Rolling Kick as the final attack
ACT 5-1
Jump and grab the ladders; Running Punch
5-2
Optimization.3
5-3
Not Pick the Knife; Optimization.3; Kick the Box while jumping up to the Platform
5-4
Backward Punch; Rolling Kick as the final attack
ACT 6-1
Trick.3; Trick.4; Backward Punch; Running Punch; Attack the enemies in the way while in the air
6-2
Trick.4; Arranged Route; Backward Punch and Rolling Kick to finish the Jamal; Maximum Safe Jumping Height Calculated
6-3
Trick.5; Leftward Wallflip; Backward Punch to get the Key(🔑); Wallflip and wait for the Searchlight to go aside
ACT 7-1
Optimization.9; Deceive enemies; Running Kick instead of jump; Short Jump
7-2
Optimization.9; Deceive enemies; Running Punch; Backward Punch to finish the Thug and destroy the Box, then use Running Punch (→→+B) to run away
7-3
Optimization.10; Rolling Kick; Backward Punch; Attack the enemy in the way while in the air; B, l+B
ACT 8-1
Trick.1; Trick.3; Trick.4; Trick.5; Running Punch; Rolling; Jump and Grab the Mesh several times
8-2
Optimization.9; Running Punch
8-3
Trick.3; Trick.4; Optimization.9; Arranged Route; Backward Punch and Rolling Kick to finish the Jamal and Texas; Running Punch; Running Kick
8-4
Rolling and Backward Punch
ACT 9-1
Trick.1; Trick.3; Trick.4; Running Punch; Short Jump
9-2
Trick.5; Optimization.9; Arranged Route; Pick the Knife to banish all enemies in the way
9-3
Trick.3; Trick.4; Trick.5; Arranged Route; Seduce enemies into attacking
Seduction; Jumping Direction Deception; Backward Punch; Enemy Movement Prediction; Leftward run away
Notes
r: Kick
B: Punch
l: Defence
A: Jump
← / L: Left Arrow; Backward
→ / R: Right Arrow; Walk
↑ / U: Up Arrow
↓ / D: Down Arrow; Crouch
→→: running (Running Direction counts as the Positive Direction, No telling left from right)
16 frames
Jump from a Ladder towards a cliff
33 frames
Jump up to a Platform while hanging from a cliff and just right begin to run (1 blank frame before starting to run)
41 frames
(Stick) →→r: Kick while running using a stick
15 frames
(Stick: rr / rrr) between r and next (Stick) r
18 frames
(Stick: rrr) between the 2nd r and the 3rd r
34 frames
(Stick: rrr) the 3rd r
25 frames
(Stick: r) r
6 frames
between B and ←+B
31 frames
←+B
8 frames
between B and l+B
16 frames
l+B
12 frames
between r and next r
21 frames
(→rrB) r between B
37 frames
(→rrB) B
1 frames
(←+r in the AIR) between ← and R
17 frames
(←+r in the AIR) r
30 frames
between →→+↓ and start of running
30 frames
→→r
-2 frames
(hanging from a Cliff) A
33 frames
(→→↓+r) r
16 frames
(→→BB) between B and B
31 frames
(→→BB) the Last B
47 frames
→BB
12 frames
(→rr+B) between r and r
21 frames
(→rr+B) between r and B
69 frames
(→rr+B) B
102 frames
→rr+B
30 frames
→→r (In the Air +B)
11 frames
r causes damage
9 frames
B causes damage
6 frames
(BBr) between B and B
8 frames
(BBr) between B and r
27 frames
(BBr) r
41 frames
BBr
37 frames
(BBB) the Last B
51 frames
BBB
57 frames
BBB Slow but Powerful
10 frames
(BBB Slow but Powerful) between B and B
37 frames
(BBB Slow but Powerful) the Last B
49 frames
BB→B
9 frames
(BB→B) between the 1st B and the 2nd B
8 frames
(BB→B) between the 2nd B and →B
32 frames
(BB→B) →B
16 frames
r
-1 frames
between Landing Frame ("_", Blank frame) and Start of running; →_→→
-2 frames
Grab the edge of Cliff when dropping
23 frames?
Mesh Jump
34 frames
↑r
11 frames
↓+A
32 frames
2 times l+B
-3 frames
between (→→)↓ and Start of Dropping from the edge of a Cliff
-2 frames
↓: Roll while running
-16 frames
→→B: Running Punch, reach the farthest. Use it at 16 frames ahead of the Start of Dropping from the edge of a Cliff
-3 frames
Running Jump before the Start of Dropping from a Cliff
6 frames
↓: After Crouching to pick a weapon, begin to run
5 frames
↑ (Hideaway)
5 frames
↓: Crouch
0 frames
between ↓: Crouch and Jump
-1 frames
↑/↓: Grab the Mesh at the frame when reaching the maximum height (Wallflip)
13 frames
between A(Jump up to a Platform from the edge of a Cliff) and ←/→ to change direction & trajectory
-4/-3 frames
between (→→) r/B and Landing Frame ("_", Blank frame); -2/-3 frames
-1 frames
between (→) ↓:Crouch and Landing Frame ("_", Blank frame)
-15 ~ -1 frames
between r/B: Trick.5 and A (-2 frames before Jump up to a Platform from a Cliff)
13 frames
between (In the Air) B/r and A (-2 frames before Jump up to a Platform from a Cliff)
-5/-4 frames
between (In the Air) B/r between Landing Frame ("_", Blank frame, 1 frame before the feet touch the ground)
-4/-3 frames
between (In the Air) (-1 frame: ←) B/r and Landing Frame ("_", Blank frame)
Jump at 2 or more frames after starting to run and the Player Character reachs the farthest.
Long Jump: A*7; Short Jump: A*[1,3]∩N; Middle Jump: A*4, A*5, A*6
Give priority to breaking the Box
Game complies with the principle of projectile motion; Y-X paracurve: $Y = \frac{v_y}{v_x} X - \frac{g}{2v_x^2} X^2$
Using Long Jump (A*7) may have a accessibility of flying over an enemy
Use a Knife when jumping from an edge of a Cliff →)A +14 frames), which will lead to a maximum displacement
Finally. FRAME RULE
To be honest, I found it in the last month. But this time it's more complicated in this game so I've not got any further inspection of it.
However, I did catch a point while improving the TAS in July.
Each Stage (ACT, or Mission) has an exclusive Frame Rule (Overall Period). Mathematically speaking, Each patrolling route of enemies is in strong connection with a periodical function relevant to time (frame). To optimize it, is exactly to make a nonlinear programming.
I don't know if I get the best optimum but it may not.
If one more overall period is saved, then it'll be faster and absolutely a new record.
Besides, sub-pixels are utilized to calculate speed (particularly momentary velocity), as a consequence of which a marginal difference in sub-pixels may have an great effect on displacements of Characters.
feos: Replacing with an improvement per author's request.
feos: Cleaned up the branch. Speedrun is the default goal so it doesn't need to be mentioned. And "no damage" is the canonical wording we use over here.
feos: After watching this side-by-side with the normal mode run, I can confirm that Time Challenge Mode is not different enough from regular gameplay to warrant a separate branch, but rather it's a difficulty setting, which we don't put into branch labels.
Regarding "no damage", we only put it into branches if taking damage is faster but was avoided for entertainment purposes. If taking damage just stuns you for a while and it's optimal to avid it, this doesn't go to branch label either.
feos: Replacing with a file that has some more improvements (sent over Discord) and is trimmed to end input as soon as possible without getting hit by the light thing.
feos: So after all the improvements I'm finally ready to accept this run. It's much better than #7366: TrueSnokido's GBA Bruce Lee: Return of the Legend in 22:39.07 in every room (only longer in rooms where the map is harder due to different mode), better than Spike's test, doesn't have the problem Memory found in 7366S, and overall it looks really well done. The single place I had a question about can't be done quicker because you get spotted and die.
Detailed explanations about what's different in this mode can be found here.
Encoder should use this movie which shows the in-game time after the credits.
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I will add more details when awake.
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tom_mai78101 wrote:
No worries, please take your time. The only reminder from me is to make sure you make a note about your submission entry post still in WIP.
Emm...I'm afraid I don't get your point. it's not a WIP but a completion of the whole "Time Challenge Mode".
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There's input which can be compared to TrueSnokido's TAS of this title where there are elements in that TAS that come out faster such as climbing the ship adding a jump at frame 9926 in your input does shave off 4 frames as well as what goes on in that ship, not taking the bars across and instead running below is also faster in comparison. Memory also in the Judgement has an input file as well improving on that submission.
Both of their TASes was done on the Easiest difficulty but I was strictly focusing on the movement.
You can also save a frame by using that blank frame at 956 to start inputting the cheat a frame earlier (holding L).
This is why I said last time to take your time as you would be able to find something new especially in the movement variety, I honestly thought you saw that submission before you started your newest installment.
You have found new stuff in your inputs which is great such as what happens in 1-2.
However, some of your input is still comparable to what I provided to you last time where my input in 1-3 is still faster in comparison unfortunately.
I do have input in Act 2 that would also be comparable to what improvements can be made but that input sequence is based on what you made, but, what Memory and TrueSnokido's have provided is probably more than enough to compare against.
I'm not beating around the bush on this one, this is a real good TAS that should've had another look around in its input before a submission and seeing what else can be scrapped off.
A light spike as well where I personally don't believe the showcasing of the final IGT is necessary and can be left as a statement of 19:15, or that it should've been the alternative file.
I'm also personally still against using the Time Challenge mode as there's no real change in comparison to Director's Cut mode as it's just a timer, and since this is a TAS going fast is the immediate priority, not what some clock says on how much time we have left, it doesn't really hold any suspense.
In conclusion this is an insanely improved TAS to what you showcased 4 months ago, but there's still stuff that can be looked at.
Good job M1D.
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account.Something better for yourself and also others.
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Spikestuff wrote:
There's input which can be compared to TrueSnokido's TAS of this title where there are elements in that TAS that come out faster such as climbing the ship adding a jump at frame 9926 in your input does shave off 4 frames as well as what goes on in that ship, not taking the bars across and instead running below is also faster in comparison. Memory also in the Judgement has an input file as well improving on that submission.
Both of their TASes was done on the Easiest difficulty but I was strictly focusing on the movement.
You can also save a frame by using that blank frame at 956 to start inputting the cheat a frame earlier (holding L).
This is why I said last time to take your time as you would be able to find something new especially in the movement variety, I honestly thought you saw that submission before you started your newest installment.
You have found new stuff in your inputs which is great such as what happens in 1-2.
However, some of your input is still comparable to what I provided to you last time where my input in 1-3 is still faster in comparison unfortunately.
I do have input in Act 2 that would also be comparable to what improvements can be made but that input sequence is based on what you made, but, what Memory and TrueSnokido's have provided is probably more than enough to compare against.
I'm not beating around the bush on this one, this is a real good TAS that should've had another look around in its input before a submission and seeing what else can be scrapped off.
A light spike as well where I personally don't believe the showcasing of the final IGT is necessary and can be left as a statement of 19:15, or that it should've been the alternative file.
I'm also personally still against using the Time Challenge mode as there's no real change in comparison to Director's Cut mode as it's just a timer, and since this is a TAS going fast is the immediate priority, not what some clock says on how much time we have left, it doesn't really hold any suspense.
In conclusion this is an insanely improved TAS to what you showcased 4 months ago, but there's still stuff that can be looked at.
Good job M1D.
Thanks for your advice and compliment. In fact, I spent nearly a month to re-record a completely new TAS of this game. I've spared all my effort on each joint of every stage or mission, which means that I was always trying different methods and compare them to choose a better frame-saver route.
I thought I would quit but eventually I made it.
Actually I've checked and watched your record in 1-3 but pitifully I tried everything to find only delaying frames in distinction. I've ever been confused and discouraged, I still cleave to finish the TAS project meticulously nevertheless. Guess that's why you choose Director's Cut Mode.
But I choose Time Challenge Mode to tell my audience that there's a harder mode beyond the Director's Cut Mode, for people know too less about this game.
Question at 9926 frames: That is because its $Velocity = \sqrt{V_x^2+V_y^2}$ and the momentary speed on touching the ground is "sometimes" faster than running speed.
And additionally, Time Challenge Mode does have any differences: No Lighthouse with HELP (?) Information and no Check Point.
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In conclusion, I lead this TAS project to a completion myself, with over 14 hours on average per day.
It all starts because I could not find a TAS that met my standard about this game, so I made one on my own.
Ultimately, it shows up as the First and the Only.
As Spikestuff Says, it still appears to have some possibilities of further optimization, in spite of which, I'm about to put an end to my work.
You can take a closer look at my work and optimize it in your own way. All notes I took are shown to you without anything left.
I've fulfilled my duties all along.
It's time for a new beginning.
I have other things of importance to do.
Then, say bye.
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I promise not to do any more changes before the completion of judgement
Do as many changes as you need, just announce replacement files here in the thread instead of the submission text. That way it will be easier for me to notice. I can delay the judgment if you still have tests to do.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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feos wrote:
I promise not to do any more changes before the completion of judgement
Do as many changes as you need, just announce replacement files here in the thread instead of the submission text. That way it will be easier for me to notice. I can delay the judgment if you still have tests to do.
OK. I will follow the advice next time.
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Optimization: All Except for Boss ACTs. I've got them all done. ACT 1, ACT 2, ACT 3, ACT 5, ACT 6, ACT 7, ACT 8, ACT 9-2 Route Rearranged. Finally, it comes to an end.
I've just updated the new one in my userfile
Replace the current with it.
Time_Challenge.bk2
In 20:50.39 (74683 frames), 105763 rerecords
DOWNLOAD HERE.
2022.07.25 THE END
"La tristesse durera toujours."
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To get the link to your actual file you need to copy the link to its Information page.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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feos wrote:
To get the link to your actual file you need to copy the link to its Information page.
Sorry, I may not get the point. Do you mean the Submission Comments?
"La tristesse durera toujours."
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Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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feos wrote:
I promise not to do any more changes before the completion of judgement
Do as many changes as you need, just announce replacement files here in the thread instead of the submission text. That way it will be easier for me to notice. I can delay the judgment if you still have tests to do.
I can still see any chances of optimization in ACT 3-3, 6-1 & 6-2.
I may delay it for 3 days or more.
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M1D wrote:
I can still see any chances of optimization in ACT 3-3, 6-1 & 6-2.
I may delay it for 3 days or more.
Nice! Don't hesitate to try improving it further, even the craziest ideas are often worth checking, as long as you feel the potential is there. I put some advises about this approach on Wiki: TasingGuide/TASArt.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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feos wrote:
Nice! Don't hesitate to try improving it further, even the craziest ideas are often worth checking, as long as you feel the potential is there. I put some advises about this approach on Wiki: TasingGuide/TASArt.
M1D wrote:
Optimization: All Except for Boss ACTs. I've got them all done. ACT 1, ACT 2, ACT 3, ACT 5, ACT 6, ACT 7, ACT 8, ACT 9-2 Route Rearranged. Finally, it comes to an end.
I've just updated the new one in my userfile
Replace the current with it.
Time_Challenge.bk2
In 20:50.39 (74683 frames), 105763 rerecords
DOWNLOAD HERE.
2022.07.25 THE END
I'm sorry to disturb. I caught a cold in recent days and I find a chance of improvement in ACT 7-2 after recovery today.
Luckily this minor optimization didn't take too mach time. 8 frames saved, this time.
And now it's All Done.
I feel sorry to keep you waiting so long. Eventually it comes to an end. You can resume the judgement right now. Many thanks.
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Don't feel sorry, feel proud that you made it better! I'll wait as long as needed if you still have ideas to try. And please make new posts for new improved movies, it makes it easier to notice for me (I don't get email notifications for post edits).
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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feos wrote:
Don't feel sorry, feel proud that you made it better! I'll wait as long as needed if you still have ideas to try. And please make new posts for new improved movies, it makes it easier to notice for me (I don't get email notifications for post edits).
I thought ACT 8-1 could be improved but I had tried then. It wouldn't be. The location coordinate and the timing is such a coincidence that it may be the optimum for ACT 8-1.
So the TAS project won't be updated.
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The Time Challenge Mode is still different from any other mode of the game.
The most obvious one is the Strength of Enemies. And the Maps of ACT 2-3, ACT 6-1 and ACT 7-2 are far more complicated than the Easy Mode's or Normal Mode's.
I'm sure you may take a closer look at it again.
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Here is the proof. Download it here.
ACT 6-1: Although it'll be faster at beginning if taking damage, but it will change the balance of each periodic function.
ACT
Taking Damage
No Damage
6-1
9108 frames
9083 frames
Duration
39116 - 30008
39097 - 30014
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Here is the TAS with Damage Taken. Download it here.
Notice: Although this TAS with Damage Taken is optimized by me, but it'll be shown only as a proof. No Need To Replace the Current TAS with It.
ACT
Taking Damage
No Damage
5-1
1878 frames
1884 frames
Duration
25786 - 23908
25792 - 23908
6-2
4455 frames
4498 frames
Duration
43618 - 39163
43667 - 39169
Conclusion: Taking damage does save frames overall.
"La tristesse durera toujours."
Just inform that my Discord account was hacked in recent days. I deleted that Discord account and will never ever use Discord again.
Sorry for disturbing and disgusting spamming by that vicious hacker.
Which leads to https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/637940787633340433 in your case.
